Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76

[midranger]

4 years ago today I experienced the greatest non-family oriented moment of my life. Giannis 50 burger to win in 6. Deer district was electric. I could’ve made thousands on the tickets I bought after game 4 but I said hell no, I want to witness history.

That said, the last few years have been tough exits, but at least we’re competing and ownership does what it can every off season and trade deadline. Much better than the slog years.

Yup. I bought my tix immediately after going down 0-2 and could’ve sold them for 5x before tip. I literally just told my wife I’d have paid 10x what did to be there.

Such a great summer.

[pifhluk23]

Im guessing Kuzma, Livingston and some others will be trade deadline bait.

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which is why I think it's pretty much guaranteed he will be starting. Will Doc have the brains to not finish with him though. We need him to put up just enough stats to fool another team but not enough stats that Doc pushes Horst to keep him.

[tedbrogen]

I don’t get this idea that Kuz is going to have good stats or fool teams into thinking he’s something he’s not. Unless he has the best three point shooting hot streak of his career (doubtful), everyone knows who he is.

You could get by without playing him if he’s the only nonshooter on the floor and have a smart enough to coach to only use him as a cutter to the basket.

The Bucks don’t have a smart coach. Kuz won’t increase his value, all he’ll do until the deadline is cost them games by allowing someone to camp in the lane and wait for GA because they won’t respect Kuz and will live with him shooting threes or doing his Gadz level layups.

[Rstuedes24]

Can anyone tell me the timeline to resign Khris if he happened to get bought out? Some people are saying February but I thought someone here had said it didn’t mean calendar year but seasonal

1 year post trade

[ShootingtheJ]

I think they will. The main issue using Brook as a roller consistently is his glacial straight line speed (as you point out) limiting his ability back to that deep drop position that we kind of based our whole defense around.

I think some of y'all are really underrating Brook as a roll man. Sure he was slow, but he also has impeccable hands, great feet, and good awareness of how to position himself to create passing windows. I'm not saying he's better than Turner as a roll man (though I think their numbers do generally bear that out), but I don't really think Turner will be a game changer in terms of rolling to the basket.

I think his mobility will be felt much more on defense, being able to closeout on shooters/rotate occasionally instead of just tapping his feet outside the paint every few seconds like Brook did.

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Brook was a great roll man.

We just couldn’t use him in that capacity much, because it’d leave us 4 on 5 defensively way too much. That’s a big part of why he was 30 feet from the rim above the break so much. Just to be able to get back to drop position before the other team is laying it in

He was ineffective as a roll man because his slowness allowed teams to easily hedge and recover on the screen.

[blazza18]

Wish we could have gotten Smart. 5.5M is a steal for a bet on him returning to even 80/90% of his peak. Article says we had "serious conversations" with him so at least we tried.

It’s a good deal for the Lakes but at the same time I don’t expect he’ll be much of a difference maker for them.

He’s also never healthy. Since Boston used him up and said we’re done with him, Marcus Smart has played a little over 1900 minutes in two seasons. Khris Middleton during that same time span has played more than him.

[ShootingtheJ]

Im guessing Kuzma, Livingston and some others will be trade deadline bait.

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I'm not convinced Kuz is gone before Bobby

Trade Bobby so we have a hole at both the 4 and 5? Simply illogical.

[Bernman]

I don’t get this idea that Kuz is going to have good stats or fool teams into thinking he’s something he’s not. Unless he has the best three point shooting hot streak of his career (doubtful), everyone knows who he is.

You could get by without playing him if he’s the only nonshooter on the floor and have a smart enough to coach to only use him as a cutter to the basket.

The Bucks don’t have a smart coach. Kuz won’t increase his value, all he’ll do until the deadline is cost them games by allowing someone to camp in the lane and wait for GA because they won’t respect Kuz and will live with him shooting threes or doing his Gadz level layups.

You've resorted to revisionist history, where the Mavs weren't offering assets for Kuz the prior yr, & that most catch & shoot 3 seasons aren't 35% or better, + at the rim around 60%. Last yr he shot 32% (inflated by final game even) & lower than 55% in the paint. So that's how.

[ShootingtheJ]

Wesley doesn't look like a PG. Likes to attack the rim off cuts

Yeah the Spurs didn't develop that part of his game, but they don't really develop anyone anymore. The untapped potential is the lure.

[BigO]

I don’t get this idea that Kuz is going to have good stats or fool teams into thinking he’s something he’s not. Unless he has the best three point shooting hot streak of his career (doubtful), everyone knows who he is.

You could get by without playing him if he’s the only nonshooter on the floor and have a smart enough to coach to only use him as a cutter to the basket.

The Bucks don’t have a smart coach. Kuz won’t increase his value, all he’ll do until the deadline is cost them games by allowing someone to camp in the lane and wait for GA because they won’t respect Kuz and will live with him shooting threes or doing his Gadz level layups.

Good post. There are revisionist Kuzma supporters, just as there is for any bad player.

Kuzma has been nothing, if not consistent, in his career. To be that bad next to Giannis is hard to do, but he did it.

[KidA24]

I think some of y'all are really underrating Brook as a roll man. Sure he was slow, but he also has impeccable hands, great feet, and good awareness of how to position himself to create passing windows. I'm not saying he's better than Turner as a roll man (though I think their numbers do generally bear that out), but I don't really think Turner will be a game changer in terms of rolling to the basket.

I think his mobility will be felt much more on defense, being able to closeout on shooters/rotate occasionally instead of just tapping his feet outside the paint every few seconds like Brook did.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro using Tapatalk

Brook was a great roll man.

We just couldn’t use him in that capacity much, because it’d leave us 4 on 5 defensively way too much. That’s a big part of why he was 30 feet from the rim above the break so much. Just to be able to get back to drop position before the other team is laying it in

He was ineffective as a roll man because his slowness allowed teams to easily hedge and recover on the screen.

So ineffective at 1.20 ppp and 79th percentile in the league.

[ShootingtheJ]

I don’t get this idea that Kuz is going to have good stats or fool teams into thinking he’s something he’s not. Unless he has the best three point shooting hot streak of his career (doubtful), everyone knows who he is.

You could get by without playing him if he’s the only nonshooter on the floor and have a smart enough to coach to only use him as a cutter to the basket.

The Bucks don’t have a smart coach. Kuz won’t increase his value, all he’ll do until the deadline is cost them games by allowing someone to camp in the lane and wait for GA because they won’t respect Kuz and will live with him shooting threes or doing his Gadz level layups.

Good post. There are revisionist Kuzma supporters, just as there is for any bad player.

Kuzma has been nothing, if not consistent, in his career. To be that bad next to Giannis is hard to do, but he did it.

Actually Kuzma has not been consistent at all. Last year was the worst year of his career by a wide margin. He's always been mediocre because of his overzealous shot appetite, but last year was a different level for him. He was normally above replacement level yearly, until last year, when he was the worst player in the league.

All that said, I still think he'll be dealt before the season starts, as even at his best he's a brutal fit next to Giannis.

[BigO]

I don’t get this idea that Kuz is going to have good stats or fool teams into thinking he’s something he’s not. Unless he has the best three point shooting hot streak of his career (doubtful), everyone knows who he is.

You could get by without playing him if he’s the only nonshooter on the floor and have a smart enough to coach to only use him as a cutter to the basket.

The Bucks don’t have a smart coach. Kuz won’t increase his value, all he’ll do until the deadline is cost them games by allowing someone to camp in the lane and wait for GA because they won’t respect Kuz and will live with him shooting threes or doing his Gadz level layups.

Good post. There are revisionist Kuzma supporters, just as there is for any bad player.

Kuzma has been nothing, if not consistent, in his career. To be that bad next to Giannis is hard to do, but he did it.

Actually Kuzma has not been consistent at all. Last year was the worst year of his career by a wide margin. He's always been mediocre because of his overzealous shot appetite, but last year was a different level for him. He was normally above replacement level yearly, until last year, when he was the worst player in the league.

All that said, I still think he'll be dealt before the season starts, as even at his best he's a brutal fit next to Giannis.

I've done this before, but I'll do it again:

Kuzma-

Last year in Milwaukee on threes 33.3; career 33.4
Last year in Milwuakee overall shooting 45.5; career 45%
Last year in Milwaukee rebounding 5.6: career 6.3
He has been consistent for his entire career with marginal differences year over year.

I'm sure one can find whatever advanced stat you want to prove a narrative, but there's no way, in my mind, to sugar coat his consistent inefficiency.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Im guessing Kuzma, Livingston and some others will be trade deadline bait.

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I'm not convinced Kuz is gone before Bobby

Trade Bobby so we have a hole at both the 4 and 5? Simply illogical.

kpj/cole
green/rollins
trent/harris
giannis/prince
turner/sims

whoever gets you the better backcourt return between portis and kuzma is probably who you move imo. theres room for one in a backup role...not really both. i want sims to get minutes

[ShootingtheJ]

Good post. There are revisionist Kuzma supporters, just as there is for any bad player.

Kuzma has been nothing, if not consistent, in his career. To be that bad next to Giannis is hard to do, but he did it.

Actually Kuzma has not been consistent at all. Last year was the worst year of his career by a wide margin. He's always been mediocre because of his overzealous shot appetite, but last year was a different level for him. He was normally above replacement level yearly, until last year, when he was the worst player in the league.

All that said, I still think he'll be dealt before the season starts, as even at his best he's a brutal fit next to Giannis.

I've done this before, but I'll do it again:

Kuzma-

Last year in Milwaukee on threes 33.3; career 33.4
Last year in Milwuakee overall shooting 45.5; career 45%
Last year in Milwaukee rebounding 5.6: career 6.3
He has been consistent for his entire career with marginal differences year over year.

I'm sure one can find whatever advanced stat you want to prove a narrative, but there's no way, in my mind, to sugar coat his consistent inefficiency.

Kuzma was -1.4 VORP last year. He's never been anything close to that.

You've only shown 1 part of the game. Maybe try saying "his shooting has been consistent". But even then, he shot terribly in Washington last year.

[BigO]

Actually Kuzma has not been consistent at all. Last year was the worst year of his career by a wide margin. He's always been mediocre because of his overzealous shot appetite, but last year was a different level for him. He was normally above replacement level yearly, until last year, when he was the worst player in the league.

All that said, I still think he'll be dealt before the season starts, as even at his best he's a brutal fit next to Giannis.

I've done this before, but I'll do it again:

Kuzma-

Last year in Milwaukee on threes 33.3; career 33.4
Last year in Milwuakee overall shooting 45.5; career 45%
Last year in Milwaukee rebounding 5.6: career 6.3
He has been consistent for his entire career with marginal differences year over year.

I'm sure one can find whatever advanced stat you want to prove a narrative, but there's no way, in my mind, to sugar coat his consistent inefficiency.

Kuzma was -1.4 VORP last year. He's never been anything close to that.

You've only shown 1 part of the game. Maybe try saying "his shooting has been consistent". But even then, he shot terribly in Washington last year.

This says more abut the value of VORP or SHWARP than it does about Kuzma. I laugh at all the posters using these initials in their analysis as a proven weapon.

The stats I used above speak for themselves. I don't want a player like that unless he is low usage and a great defender.

I didn't need SHWARMA to tell me Kuzma is bad, just as I didn't need it to tell me BP is a very good player.

I'm sure I've been wrong on a player, but I picked out Rollins early when he was coming off the bench for the Herd. I liked Livingston and he has shown up (for now).I was a big Green fan from the beginning. And I was pining for Turner for several years. Point is I never used MORP or CARP for any of it.

There hasn't been a player analysis I have made over the years by watching the player and using the old stats (shooting percentage, et al) that have shown me that my analysis has been wrong.

But all of you can use DWEEB or SCHMUCK all you want.

If you want to make the claim that Kuzma makes up being bad offensively with good defense, go for it, but I've never seen him as a good defender.

[CJTURT]

Hopefully kuz minutes dip a little this year. Around 30 career average. 25 this year in a bench roll. I’m pretty sure Doc saw what we all saw. 15 to 20 minutes in the playoffs is all I would give him. Find his niche as a bench guy.

[ShootingtheJ]

I've done this before, but I'll do it again:

Kuzma-

Last year in Milwaukee on threes 33.3; career 33.4
Last year in Milwuakee overall shooting 45.5; career 45%
Last year in Milwaukee rebounding 5.6: career 6.3
He has been consistent for his entire career with marginal differences year over year.

I'm sure one can find whatever advanced stat you want to prove a narrative, but there's no way, in my mind, to sugar coat his consistent inefficiency.

Kuzma was -1.4 VORP last year. He's never been anything close to that.

You've only shown 1 part of the game. Maybe try saying "his shooting has been consistent". But even then, he shot terribly in Washington last year.

This says more abut the value of VORP or SHWARP than it does about Kuzma. I laugh at all the posters using these initials in their analysis as a proven weapon.

The stats I used above speak for themselves. I don't want a player like that unless he is low usage and a great defender.

I didn't need SHWARMA to tell me Kuzma is bad, just as I didn't need it to tell me BP is a very good player.

I'm sure I've been wrong on a player, but I picked out Rollins early when he was coming off the bench for the Herd. I liked Livingston and he has shown up (for now).I was a big Green fan from the beginning. And I was pining for Turner for several years. Point is I never used MORP or CARP for any of it.

There hasn't been a player analysis I have made over the years by watching the player and using the old stats (shooting percentage, et al) that have shown me that my analysis has been wrong.

But all of you can use DWEEB or SCHMUCK all you want.

If you want to make the claim that Kuzma makes up being bad offensively with good defense, go for it, but I've never seen him as a good defender.

So the part of the data your missing is the correlation between volume and efficiency. Yes, Kuzma has always been inefficient, largely because he takes tons of contested shots. In prior years, he was actually one of the more efficient players in the game at shooting those contested shots. He's always been a chucker, attempting as many as 22 field goals a game.

Last season in Milwaukee, his field goal attempts decreased dramatically, and his shot quality increased. We should have seen a rather dramatic spike in efficiency. However, due to the degradation of Kuzma's skill level, likely caused by a offseason of complete inactivity, he wasn't able to make the easier shots at past efficiencies.

Simply put, not a field goal percentages are created equally, which is why we have more of the advanced stats you mock. Once you understand their role, you'll grow to appreciate them, because they'll often substantiate the eye test. Kuzma isnt my kind of player, but the player we saw last year was him at his absolute worst.

[BUCKnation]

Wish we could have gotten Smart. 5.5M is a steal for a bet on him returning to even 80/90% of his peak. Article says we had "serious conversations" with him so at least we tried.

Bucks could only give him $3.3M or $3.8M or whatever they had left from the room exception.

Lakers likely also guaranteed him a starting role.

I liked the potential of smart but the guy has played 54 total games since leaving boston over the last 3 seasons

[tedbrogen]

Kuzma was -1.4 VORP last year. He's never been anything close to that.

You've only shown 1 part of the game. Maybe try saying "his shooting has been consistent". But even then, he shot terribly in Washington last year.

This says more abut the value of VORP or SHWARP than it does about Kuzma. I laugh at all the posters using these initials in their analysis as a proven weapon.

The stats I used above speak for themselves. I don't want a player like that unless he is low usage and a great defender.

I didn't need SHWARMA to tell me Kuzma is bad, just as I didn't need it to tell me BP is a very good player.

I'm sure I've been wrong on a player, but I picked out Rollins early when he was coming off the bench for the Herd. I liked Livingston and he has shown up (for now).I was a big Green fan from the beginning. And I was pining for Turner for several years. Point is I never used MORP or CARP for any of it.

There hasn't been a player analysis I have made over the years by watching the player and using the old stats (shooting percentage, et al) that have shown me that my analysis has been wrong.

But all of you can use DWEEB or SCHMUCK all you want.

If you want to make the claim that Kuzma makes up being bad offensively with good defense, go for it, but I've never seen him as a good defender.

So the part of the data your missing is the correlation between volume and efficiency. Yes, Kuzma has always been inefficient, largely because he takes tons of contested shots. In prior years, he was actually one of the more efficient players in the game at shooting those contested shots. He's always been a chucker, attempting as many as 22 field goals a game.

Last season in Milwaukee, his field goal attempts decreased dramatically, and his shot quality increased. We should have seen a rather dramatic spike in efficiency. However, due to the degradation of Kuzma's skill level, likely caused by a offseason of complete inactivity, he wasn't able to make the easier shots at past efficiencies.

Simply put, not a field goal percentages are created equally, which is why we have more of the advanced stats you mock. Once you understand their role, you'll grow to appreciate them, because they'll often substantiate the eye test. Kuzma isnt my kind of player, but the player we saw last year was him at his absolute worst.

Alternatively, maybe Kuz is incapable of being efficient even on low volume, high shot quality. (Someone already covered how that is the case for RJ Barrett) And if that’s the case for Kuz, he’s legit one of the worst rotational players in the league.

And maybe you saw Kuz at his worst because now that he’s on the downside of his athleticism (the only unique skill he ever possessed) that he is only going to get worse every year going forward.