Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - No Politics

[thonnisbeastley]

DDV is definitely more of a 6th man than the starting SG on a contender. That being said, he’s been better than Wes was last season and still has a couple years of development left. Wish he was a little bit taller, but he’s still a baller.

Do you realize the state of the SG position in the NBA right now? The scorers who give up as much as they get, if not more, are a dime-a-dozen. It's really hard to be a good-to-great defender while still being a good complementary scorer on offense, and those players are very rare. That's why DDV has much better advanced stats than so many guys with gaudier box score stats. He just flat-out contributes more to his team and no amount of refusing to believe it makes it untrue.

Thinking he'd be a 6th man of the year candidate would mean that he still flat-out contributes. He'd still get his 25 or so minutes. I'm not sure what these advanced stats are that you're referring to. His advanced stats do not look that great, they're actually pretty poor and indicate that he's about the 6th/7th best player on our team. He's about 15th/16th overall compared to other SG's in the league.

[paulpressey25]

Acting like Khris and DDV are average players being carried by Giannis is basically taking superstar nut-hugging to comically absurd levels.

Are we taking Khris or the other guys? Khris is an excellent player. The other guys are riding Giannis a bit.

I go back to those Bulls teams. There were a lot of guys who fans overrated because they rode with Batman and Robin.

Old Ron Harper, Steve Kerr, BJ Armstrong, Stacy King, Wennington, Purdue, etc. all rode the Jordan train. And didn’t do very well once they got off the Jordan train, save for Kerr, who got on the Duncan train.

[thrice123]

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[emunney]

Uh, can we be the third team?

[Prez]

Jrue-DDV-Khris-Giannis have a +25 net rating with anyone besides Brook as the 5th guy. Though the sample is so small I’m not gonna even mention the minutes total lol. Need Horst to find a team dumber than the Bucks to get that strong wing/forward (basically a bigger, actually good version of Torrey Craig) for Brook/DJA and 2nds and stuff to replace Pat’s role as that 5th guy. That plus bringing GOATkite into the mix

[RiotPunch]

#1
MKE: Theis, Bridges
BOS: Barnes, Bjelica, Whiteside
CHA: Lopez, Thompson, Nwora, IND '25 2nd
SAC: Zeller, Nesmith, BOS '21 1st (Top-10 protected)

#2
MKE: Satoransky
CHI: Knox, Wilson, MKE '23 2nd
NYK: Augustin, MKE '22 2nd

Jrue / Satoransky
DDV / Forbes
Middleton / Connaughton
Giannis / Bridges / Diakite
Theis / Portis

Jrue
DDV
Middleton
Bridges
Giannis

DEATH

[LuessiT]

I was half memeing in the past but we really should trade for Ntilikina. He's been shooting lights out from 3 in very limited sample size and otherwise is exactly what we need. Good PoA defender, switchable, makes right decisions on offense. Swapping DJA with him would do a lot for our w/l column imo.

[ShootingtheJ]

I was half memeing in the past but we really should trade for Ntilikina. He's been shooting lights out from 3 in very limited sample size and otherwise is exactly what we need. Good PoA defender, switchable, makes right decisions on offense. Swapping DJA with him would do a lot for our w/l column imo.

Yeah, I'm surprised that Thibs doesn't love him. Despite his sudden 3 point shooting, they've already said they're going back to Elfrid Payton when he's back.

I'm cool with Frank as the 4th guard, but if be nervous with him as the 3rd guard. I'm also nervous with the present reserve duo.

[ShootingtheJ]

#1
MKE: Theis, Bridges
BOS: Barnes, Bjelica, Whiteside
CHA: Lopez, Thompson, Nwora, IND '25 2nd
SAC: Zeller, Nesmith, BOS '21 1st (Top-10 protected)

#2
MKE: Satoransky
CHI: Knox, Wilson, MKE '23 2nd
NYK: Augustin, MKE '22 2nd

Jrue / Satoransky
DDV / Forbes
Middleton / Connaughton
Giannis / Bridges / Diakite
Theis / Portis

Jrue
DDV
Middleton
Bridges
Giannis

DEATH

I don't see Boston doing deal #1, but I love deal #2. Satoransky becomes the top backup at both guard spots, and I wouldn't be surprised if they shipped Forbes out for another guard that's switchable.

[LuessiT]

I was half memeing in the past but we really should trade for Ntilikina. He's been shooting lights out from 3 in very limited sample size and otherwise is exactly what we need. Good PoA defender, switchable, makes right decisions on offense. Swapping DJA with him would do a lot for our w/l column imo.

Yeah, I'm surprised that Thibs doesn't love him. Despite his sudden 3 point shooting, they've already said they're going back to Elfrid Payton when he's back.

I'm cool with Frank as the 4th guard, but if be nervous with him as the 3rd guard. I'm also nervous with the present reserve duo.

To be fair to Thibs Frank also has had a few nagging injuries. His current shooting numbers are obviously a mirrage but he's visually improved his shooting mechanics and given his pedigree as a solid shooter in FIBA and his solid shooting numbers last year before playing through a shoulder injury I wasn't buying his shooting numbers in the past. He's probably a mid to high 30's shooter if left open and has some ability to shoot off the dribble. This isn't anything to write home about but for someone who's job is to bring energy and defense it's good enough.
I wouldn't give up anything of real value for him, but if all it took was rerouting DJA I'd be pretty happy.

[smauss]

interesting discussion. In essence we all know that Superstars are required to win at this level. Yet, basketball will always be a team sport. These advanced analytics attempt to put number to that symbiotic relationship. DDV will never be a superstar, but he is a guy that every team wants/needs, and these advanced analytics show that. The only aspect of his game that is not outstanding is shooting/offense. I don't have the stats but my guess is that our winning percentage is outrageous when DDV's shooting/offense is clicking, however, the nights his offense isn't clicking, doesnt mean he's not contributing in a host of different ways. Now, the GM needs to be able to assemble a roster where the team, both Superstars and others compliment each other and fill in deficits that each play has. DDV's game would do that for any team imho.

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[LuessiT]

There are also other aspects introduced with the salary cap. When every team has the same money available it matters how you maximize the talent with said money. Star players represent huge value contracts and the bigger the star the better. When Westbrook makes as much as Harden, when Middleton makes as much as AD. When you can get an all NBA player like Doncic on a rookie contracts - there is a huge imbalance between money and talent. These are the contracts you need to jump 29 other teams on a level playing field. Now I'm not saying you can't have non-rookie non-max value contracts but it's very hard to get these repetitively. So the easiest way is getting stars.

[smauss]

There are also other aspects introduced with the salary cap. When every team has the same money available it matters how you maximize the talent with said money. Star players represent huge value contracts and the bigger the star the better. When Westbrook makes as much as Harden, when Middleton makes as much as AD. When you can get an all NBA player like Doncic on a rookie contracts - there is a huge imbalance between money and talent. These are the contracts you need to jump 29 other teams on a level playing field. Now I'm not saying you can't have non-rookie non-max value contracts but it's very hard to get these repetitively. So the easiest way is getting stars.

Great point! There have always been, at least since the 60's when I started following the Bucks, the same type of team make-up but the salaries and the salary cap has most definitely changed the way teams are constructed, along with windows of opportunity.

[paulpressey25]

DDV will never be a superstar, but he is a guy that every team wants/needs, and these advanced analytics show that. The only aspect of his game that is not outstanding is shooting/offense. I don't have the stats but my guess is that our winning percentage is outrageous when DDV's shooting/offense is clicking,

Have no issues with DDV if you frame him in terms of good value draft pick at that point where he was selected. The problem is that his shooting/finishing is not good enough to have him be a starter. He's really a guy that should be about #8 in your rotation.

But we debate on him intensely here because we need him to be more than 8th man, since the other non-Jrue guards are really bad.

[WRau1]

if DDV is the 8th man in your rotation then you must have the best 1-7 players on any team in the league.

[smauss]

DDV will never be a superstar, but he is a guy that every team wants/needs, and these advanced analytics show that. The only aspect of his game that is not outstanding is shooting/offense. I don't have the stats but my guess is that our winning percentage is outrageous when DDV's shooting/offense is clicking,

Have no issues with DDV if you frame him in terms of good value draft pick at that point where he was selected. The problem is that his shooting/finishing is not good enough to have him be a starter. He's really a guy that should be about #8 in your rotation.

But we debate on him intensely here because we need him to be more than 8th man, since the other non-Jrue guards are really bad.

Don't totally disagree but it depends on how much value is placed on what he consistently brings to the table, which is also dependent on the others in the rotation. IMHO, Brook is the biggest deficit we have on our starters and that is due to his effort, lack of mobility on the defensive end, compounded by his, at best, erratic shooting. Now, if we get the type of 5 that I've stated multiple times on this board, and we still need additional scoring, then we can discuss DDV, but until then I don't find it to be our primary problem.

[Frank Nova]

Jrue-DDV-Khris-Giannis have a +25 net rating with anyone besides Brook as the 5th guy. Though the sample is so small I’m not gonna even mention the minutes total lol. Need Horst to find a team dumber than the Bucks to get that strong wing/forward (basically a bigger, actually good version of Torrey Craig) for Brook/DJA and 2nds and stuff to replace Pat’s role as that 5th guy. That plus bringing GOATkite into the mix

What’s the net rating with Brook? I’m lazy and would rather you tell me than look it up lol. I’m curious what that analytics say because Brook is failing the eye test miserably this year imho. He’s only relevant in roto fantasy leagues this year lol

[tski1972]

Going back to the Myles Powell acquisition, I feel he could eventually turn into a Jordan Clarkson type sixth man.

[Prez]

Jrue-DDV-Khris-Giannis have a +25 net rating with anyone besides Brook as the 5th guy. Though the sample is so small I’m not gonna even mention the minutes total lol. Need Horst to find a team dumber than the Bucks to get that strong wing/forward (basically a bigger, actually good version of Torrey Craig) for Brook/DJA and 2nds and stuff to replace Pat’s role as that 5th guy. That plus bringing GOATkite into the mix

What’s the net rating with Brook? I’m lazy and would rather you tell me than look it up lol. I’m curious what that analytics say because Brook is failing the eye test miserably this year imho. He’s only relevant in roto fantasy leagues this year lol

+7.6 net rating with Brook

Which frankly kinda sucks with the talent in that 1-4

[crowhead76]

Bucks out - DJW and DJA + 2 SRPs
Bucks in - Wright

Pistons out - Svi and Wright
Pistons in - Bamba, DJW, Ennis

Magic out - Bamba and Ennis
Magic in - Svi and DJA + 2SRPs
______________

Bucks in - Moore + SRP
Suns in - Forbes
_______________

Bucks in - Dozier
Nuggets in - Craig + SRP
_______________

Sign Dedmon/Cousins and sign Ariza if bought out.

Holiday - Wright - (2)Powell
DDV - Pat - Moore - Merrill
Middleton - Ariza - Dozier - Nwora
Giannis - Portis - Thanasis
Lopez - Dedmon/Cousins - (2)Diakite