ATL - Kyrie Dealt to Boston for IT, Crowder, Nets pick, etc Pg 87

Ron Swanson · Post #1901 » by **Ron Swanson** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:54 am

Ainge finally pulled the trigger and it makes sense now why he passed on Fultz. Like it for both teams.

Nowak008 · Post #1902 » by **Nowak008** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:56 am

Ron Swanson wrote:Ainge finally pulled the trigger and it makes sense now why he passed on Fultz. Like it for both teams.

Hard to imagine Angie knew he was getting Kyrie 3 months after the draft. Angie passed on Fultz because Fultz is poop.

Ron Swanson · Post #1903 » by **Ron Swanson** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:00 am

Yeah, the #1 overall prospect is poop, sure.

H2tObes · Post #1904 » by **H2tObes** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:03 am

I hope he's poop, better for us!

KidA24 · Post #1905 » by **KidA24** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:18 am

DrWood wrote:
KidA24 wrote:
DrWood wrote:so, does this improve the bucks' chances of getting to conference finals or not?

They'd have to win a playoff series first.

I don't know whether to put that under "No", "Yes", or "another failed attempt at humor".

Aww. That's cute.

The Bucks still aren't beating a LeBron lead team. I doubt they beat a team with Hayward/Iriving/Horford.

It might improve their chances by 1%.

mattg · Post #1906 » by **mattg** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:21 am

It's gonna be interesting to see the perception of this trade in a few months. Curious to see how Thomas is viewed compared to Kyrie when his ftr and thus efficiency go down a bit with having to spread touches around. He'll still be efficient obviously, but I doubt there will be many people pointing to IT being a "clearly" better offensive player than Kyrie. Especially since the Celtics have Brad Stevens while the Cavs have Lue looking twice as baffled as Kidd on the sidelines.

Also, I'm sure Boston looks at both Brown and Tatum as guys who surpass Crowder within the next year. As far as the pick, there's no guarantee it's top 5. The Nets have a killer coach and they will compete for sure, plus the East is trash. No reason they couldn't win like 35 games or something.

The other elephant in the room is that the trade does nothing to help Cleveland's weaknesses in terms of championship aspirations. Sure Crowder is nice depth, but their frontcourt is still effed. They have the issue of being unable to rebound when they go small and being unable to defend shooters when they play their big lineup. They need to make a move to address that which they do have the capability to do now after this trade. Just don't see it as Boston getting hosed as some do.

freewhitemoon · Post #1907 » by **freewhitemoon** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:36 am

I doubt Jaylen brown surpasses Crowder ever, let alone next year

skones · Post #1908 » by **skones** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:39 am

jakecronus8 wrote:
midranger wrote:
Nowak008 wrote:So who is up for trading Mid for Crowder + Brooklyn pick?

The debate rages on

In a New York minute.

How many guys taken in 2014 are currently better than Middleton?

Interesting that three full seasons have been played (ie the same amount of time that would elapse until Giannis is a free agent) and the answer is ONE that would actually help Milwaukee win more games in Jokic.

Feel free to do the same tests for 2013, 2012, and 2011, and tell me in which year they reached "better." Go ahead, I'll wait.

Post #1909 » by **ReasonablySober** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:48 am

I still can't believe Ainge jumped the gun and got fleeced like that.

jakecronus8 · Post #1910 » by **jakecronus8** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:58 am

skones wrote:
jakecronus8 wrote:
midranger wrote:The debate rages on

In a New York minute.

How many guys taken in 2014 are currently better than Middleton?

Interesting that three full seasons have been played (ie the same amount of time that would elapse until Giannis is a free agent) and the answer is ONE that would actually help Milwaukee win more games in Jokic.

Feel free to do the same tests for 2013, 2012, and 2011, and tell me in which year they reached "better." Go ahead, I'll wait.

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have Jabari in this trade over Middleton by a long shot, but dude's knee explosions ruined that idea.

Milwaukee has to play the long game. Right now Middleton is on a very good deal, but will be paid after next season. Meanwhile, this upcoming draft has an unreal list of guys in the top 5. A but risky for sure but we won't contend for a few years anyway, and I want to have a clean cap and unquestioned core when that time comes.

A lot of it depends on if you think Brooklyn is going to be bad enough to secure a top 5 pick and if you believe in this draft. I think Brooklyn got worse. Traded their best player in exchange for a talented knuckle head. And long term I'd take Bamba, Bagley, Doncic, Porter, and Ayton over Middleton (in that order).

rilamann · Post #1911 » by **rilamann** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:02 am

Put me in the camp who thinks Boston just got a lot worse and Cleveland just got a lot better.I think Cleveland is good enough to beat Golden ST now.Along with the addition of Rose and now what sounds like Wade.

Kyrie Irving is talented but overrated.Classic guy who would rather be the man on a 30 win team than be part of a championship team.He's a Melo clone.

jakecronus8 · Post #1912 » by **jakecronus8** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:07 am

rilamann wrote:Put me in the camp who thinks Boston just got a lot worse and Cleveland just got a lot better.I think Cleveland is good enough to beat Golden ST now.Along with the addition of Rose and now what sounds like Wade.

Kyrie Irving is talented but overrated.Classic guy who would rather be the man on a 30 win team than be part of a championship team.He's a Melo clone.

I don't think it can be overstated just how much of a dope Kyrie is. Has a lot of flaws as a player but when you add that into the mix he's just not someone I'd invest a lot in.

rilamann · Post #1913 » by **rilamann** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:16 am

jakecronus8 wrote:
rilamann wrote:Put me in the camp who thinks Boston just got a lot worse and Cleveland just got a lot better.I think Cleveland is good enough to beat Golden ST now.Along with the addition of Rose and now what sounds like Wade.

Kyrie Irving is talented but overrated.Classic guy who would rather be the man on a 30 win team than be part of a championship team.He's a Melo clone.

I don't think it can be overstated just how much of a dope Kyrie is. Has a lot of flaws as a player but when you add that into the mix he's just not someone I'd invest a lot in.

Yeah,if I am serious about winning a championship I don't want a guy like Kyrie on my team.Things could get ugly pretty quickly in Boston,the only thing keeping Kyrie in check in Cleveland is the fact he was playing with Lebron.Which is exactly why Kyrie wanted out.

It's going to be hero ball 24/7 in Boston,just what Kyrie wanted.

trwi7 · Post #1914 » by **trwi7** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:18 am

jakecronus8 wrote: Milwaukee has to play the long game.

The long game was over the second Giannis signed that contract and turned into a superstar. Now the entire game is putting a team around Giannis that can win playoff series now and compete for a championship within the next few years.

Post #1915 » by **ReasonablySober** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:21 am

I think Kyrie's an incredibly overrated player, but I can't blame him much here. He's hit one of the two or three biggest shots in NBA history, and it led to a ring. His legacy is already secure. If he wants to go somewhere to be the proverbial man, then whatever, go for it. But he was already the #2 sneaker in the league and that was because of LeBron. Now he's going to an organization that's gonna make him the face of their success and failure.

He's barely a top 40 player, but he's gonna be expected to deliver like a top ten.

drone3 · Post #1916 » by **drone3** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:47 am

For some reason I have a feeling Rose is going to start for the Cavs with IT off the bench.

blazza18 · Post #1917 » by **blazza18** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:56 am

Cavs aren't beating anyone out west with Thomas, Rose, Wade, and Love in their rotation.

FlagsFlyForever · Post #1918 » by **FlagsFlyForever** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:56 am

trwi7 wrote:
jakecronus8 wrote: Milwaukee has to play the long game.

The long game was over the second Giannis signed that contract and turned into a superstar. Now the entire game is putting a team around Giannis that can win playoff series now and compete for a championship within the next few years.

No. Giannis is still 22 years old. It would be as foolish to make a move with the goal being to win a playoff series this season as it has been to make moves with the same goal in mind in years past. Every move the Bucks make should ignore this season and focus on 2+ years down the line.

H2tObes · Post #1919 » by **H2tObes** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:14 am

ElPeregrino wrote:
trwi7 wrote:
jakecronus8 wrote: Milwaukee has to play the long game.

The long game was over the second Giannis signed that contract and turned into a superstar. Now the entire game is putting a team around Giannis that can win playoff series now and compete for a championship within the next few years.

No. Giannis is still 22 years old. It would be as foolish to make a move with the goal being to win a playoff series this season as it has been to make moves with the same goal in mind in years past. Every move the Bucks make should ignore this season and focus on 2+ years down the line.

Giannis might not be with us after 4 years, you dont want this team getting younger

FlagsFlyForever · Post #1920 » by **FlagsFlyForever** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:36 am

H2tObes wrote:
ElPeregrino wrote:
trwi7 wrote:
The long game was over the second Giannis signed that contract and turned into a superstar. Now the entire game is putting a team around Giannis that can win playoff series now and compete for a championship within the next few years.

No. Giannis is still 22 years old. It would be as foolish to make a move with the goal being to win a playoff series this season as it has been to make moves with the same goal in mind in years past. Every move the Bucks make should ignore this season and focus on 2+ years down the line.

Giannis might not be with us after 4 years, you dont want this team getting younger

I understand that argument but I'm betting Giannis is with us 5 years from now. As it stands at this very moment, the Bucks have a better chance to win the Finals five years from now or 10 years from now than they do this season (which is 0%).