Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions

[ShootingtheJ]

We can't replace Butler in free agency. We're $52 million over the cap.

You've been corrected on this. We'd clear out all the significant non Dame & Giannis salaries next yr and be well under the cap.

The cap projection is for 154.6. Giannis and Dame will make 116. Then it's around 12 million for their remaining 5 contracted guys. There are no holds for draft picks. They'd be at 128, so 26-27 under. Could run it to 30+ by getting rid of a couple of the low roster guys, then replace them vet mins & other exceptions if you get them (haven't gotten into those weeds). If you wanted to trade Dame to get younger/cheaper too (Fox/Reaves, et al), you'd probably have around 40m to try and target a 3rd core guy.

So no, you can have space to replace Butler. It's just a matter of will of all parties.

Wrong, there's minimum roster holds you haven't figured that I previously mentioned. You have to account for 11 players at all times.

I also think your cap projection is high. That $15 million increase isn't what we've seen in recent years.

[MickeyDavis]

The NBA announced new 11-year TV deals with ESPN, NBC and Amazon Prime Video. Those deals, worth $77 billion in total, begin with the 2025-26 season and virtually assure that the salary cap will rise the full 10 percent allowable by the collective bargaining agreement, meaning a projected $154.6 million salary cap and $187.9 million luxury tax threshold.

[Bernman]

Wrong, there's minimum roster holds you haven't figured that I previously mentioned. You have to account for 11 players at all times.

I also think your cap projection is high. That $15 million increase isn't what we've seen in recent years.

You said the Bucks are 52m over the cap. Don't know what that had to do w/ anything. It's far from the truth for next season, under this hypothetical they trade all our significant non Giannis & Dame contracts for an expiring.

As far as minimum holds, if you have to account for that for 4 more players than you already have under contract, it's still 20+, w/out further maneuvering, which Philly did last year. They have cap space, similar to the Sixers last season. It's just not as much cuz of Dame making almost 20m more than Maxey, & a matter of how much exactly.

[ShootingtheJ]

Wrong, there's minimum roster holds you haven't figured that I previously mentioned. You have to account for 11 players at all times.

I also think your cap projection is high. That $15 million increase isn't what we've seen in recent years.

You said the Bucks are 52m over the cap. Don't know what that had to do w/ anything. It's far from the truth for next season, under this hypothetical they trade all our significant non Giannis & Dame contracts for an expiring.

As far as minimum holds, if you have to account for that for 4 more players than you already have under contract, it's still 20+, w/out further maneuvering, which Philly did last year. They have cap space, similar to the sixers last season. It's just not as much cuz of Dame making almost 20m more than Maxey.

So you have $18 million to replace Bulter and Brook, plus the MLE. That's not a viable route. With the cap increasing, we should want players with multi year contracts, not be slashing to get some minimal cap space.

[slos]

Horst will never trade for Butler without insurance that he resigns. From my understanding Jimmy has a deal in place with Phoenix to opt out and sign a new 2y/121mil contract. If that's all he wants I wouldn't mind giving it to him. That will end with Dame and gives Giannis 3 more opportunities for another championship.

Financially it works for Milwaukee. They skip the 2nd apron this season - they can't trade for Jimmy without it - and next season they will have 166 mil tied to their Big 3 with the 2nd apron at 208 mil. They also have though Johsnon, Green, Jackson, Livingston, Smith tied for just 12 mil. That's 178 mil for 8 players and 30 mil in breathing room under the 2nd apron.

I have Brook resigning with a 2/20, Trent with 2/12 (tax-MLE) and Rollins taking this season a multi-year contract on the minimum. You still have 12 mil to fill the last 4 spots with vets. Obviously no Midds/Bobby/Pat since these are the guys you trade for Jimmy.

Lillard/XXX/Johnson
Jackson/Green/Rollins
Butler/Trent/XXX
Giannis/XXX/Livingston
Lopez/XXX/Smith

Fill the gaps with young players and you are good to go.

[yb90]

We can't replace Butler in free agency. We're $52 million over the cap.

You've been corrected on this. We'd clear out all the significant non Dame & Giannis salaries next yr and be well under the cap.

The cap projection is for 154.6. Giannis and Dame will make 116. Then it's around 12 million for their remaining 5 contracted guys. There are no holds for draft picks. They'd be at 128, so 26-27 under. Could run it to 30+ by getting rid of a couple of the low roster guys, then replace them vet mins & other exceptions if you get them (haven't gotten into those weeds). If you wanted to trade Dame to get younger/cheaper too (Fox/Reaves, et al), you'd probably have around 40m to try and target a 3rd core guy.

So no, you can have space to replace Butler. It's just a matter of will of all parties.

Did you use Dame and Giannis averages because Spotrac has them both at $54.1m for next year. Which creates 8m more to cover the minimum holds.

[msiris]

Pretenders. BTSU.

[SirChurros]

I’d probably rather just blow it all up than trade for Butler. This team is more than replacing Middleton with Butler away from even sniffing a title.

[Frank Nova]

I’d probably rather just blow it all up than trade for Butler. This team is more than replacing Middleton with Butler away from even sniffing a title.

I feel your pain but I have to play devils advocate here. I think we’re a title contender if 2021 Khris Middleton shows up in the playoffs. Whether that’s actually Middleton or a Jimmy Butler, I think we can be right there. Just can’t have 2 dudes shouldering everything.

Boston got over the hump when Marcus Smart wasn’t their 3rd best player. We’re in that territory now. Middleton is our Marcus Smart and that’s just not currently good enough. It wasn’t good enough for Tatum and Brown and it’s not good enough for Giannis and Dame. Boston made some major changes and upgraded to Derrick White, we need to do the same and we’ll be on the right track again…

[jschligs]

I’d probably rather just blow it all up than trade for Butler. This team is more than replacing Middleton with Butler away from even sniffing a title.

But what does blow it up look like?

The only reason I'd trade for Butler is because I'd hope he'd decline his PO and go find a longer team deal elsewhere, and having sent Midds/Bobby for him, we'd be saving $50m in cap space for next year. I also think that kind of shake up could help us this year. And who knows, it works so we could sign him for a long term deal (I don't think it will).

Otherwise we move Dame, but his value is has dropped so we'd be losing cents on the dollar. And what would we get? A couple firsts? Who even wants him?

[fansinceforever]

0-8 against the East's top teams. We either need to take one last big swing (Likely Butler) or figure out what the next version of this team is.

There is no "get into the playoffs and anything can happen" with this team.

[SirChurros]

I’d probably rather just blow it all up than trade for Butler. This team is more than replacing Middleton with Butler away from even sniffing a title.

But what does blow it up look like?

The only reason I'd trade for Butler is because I'd hope he'd decline his PO and go find a longer team deal elsewhere, and having sent Midds/Bobby for him, we'd be saving $50m in cap space for next year. I also think that kind of shake up could help us this year. And who knows, it works so we could sign him for a long term deal (I don't think it will).

Otherwise we move Dame, but his value is has dropped so we'd be losing cents on the dollar. And what would we get? A couple firsts? Who even wants him?

That’s a fair question since the organization is pretty hamstrung in its ability to rebuild because of limited assets. I guess I’m open to anything, even trading Giannis.

I’m just saying that it’s 2025 and I don’t really buy this team as a title contender with a healthy Middleton or a healthy Butler. It’s an old roster that is going to just continue to limp through the postseason year after year.

I know I’m a pessimist, but the title window is 100% closed as far as I’m concerned.

[raferfenix]

The Nets targeting Giannis as a long term strategy could mean they won't want to do anything to make us better.

Alternatively, if they see the wheels falling off even a few years from now, Brooklyn could try to stock up on firsts they could trade back to the Bucks. The Nets similarly made a deal with the Rockets to reacquire their 2026 first when they committed to a rebuild.

Here's Marc Stein's report on this as context for why the Nets are so clearly out on Jimmy:

What, then, are Brooklyn’s plans? The scenario repeatedly cited in conversation with rival teams always winds up in the same place: The Nets have long been described and continue to be painted as a team determined to be in position to trade for Milwaukee’s Giannis Antetokounmpo someday. Reminder: Someday depends on Antetokounmpo pushing the Bucks to trade him … something he has shown no known inclination to do. There remains zero expectation that the Bucks would even consider the notion of trading Antetokounmpo unless he pushed for it.

https://hoopshype.com/rumor/nets-determined-to-be-in-position-to-trade-for-giannis-antetokounmpo-someday/

[msiris]

I’d probably rather just blow it all up than trade for Butler. This team is more than replacing Middleton with Butler away from even sniffing a title.

They have nothing to lose so they need to do something.

[SirChurros]

I’d probably rather just blow it all up than trade for Butler. This team is more than replacing Middleton with Butler away from even sniffing a title.

They have nothing to lose so they need to do something.

I guess if you’re of the opinion that you think there’s a realistic move out there that makes us title contenders, I would agree.

I just don’t agree with that sentiment, necessarily.

To me, trading for Butler just seems like kicking the can down the road.

[jschligs]

I’d probably rather just blow it all up than trade for Butler. This team is more than replacing Middleton with Butler away from even sniffing a title.

But what does blow it up look like?

The only reason I'd trade for Butler is because I'd hope he'd decline his PO and go find a longer team deal elsewhere, and having sent Midds/Bobby for him, we'd be saving $50m in cap space for next year. I also think that kind of shake up could help us this year. And who knows, it works so we could sign him for a long term deal (I don't think it will).

Otherwise we move Dame, but his value is has dropped so we'd be losing cents on the dollar. And what would we get? A couple firsts? Who even wants him?

That’s a fair question since the organization is pretty hamstrung in its ability to rebuild because of limited assets. I guess I’m open to anything, even trading Giannis.

I’m just saying that it’s 2025 and I don’t really buy this team as a title contender with a healthy Middleton or a healthy Butler. It’s an old roster that is going to just continue to limp through the postseason year after year.

I know I’m a pessimist, but the title window is 100% closed as far as I’m concerned.

My issue with trading Giannis is that the FO has proven it can't hit on draft picks. So unless we get some young stud we hope can develop into a generational player or even MVP caliber player like Shai I'd probably not do it.

We haven't shown me the ability to do anything with a haul of picks. If we were Presti and OKC I'd have faith as you look at what they've done and you're in awe. I'd almost rather trade Dame at a loss for some young rotational guys and a few firsts you hope you could hit on than risk it with Giannis.

On the other hand, I'm not ready to return to mediocrity. Not while we have Giannis. I'd rather be bitching about being in 4/5th seed than bitching about not getting a top 3 pick and then missing.

[Milbucks96]

I’d probably rather just blow it all up than trade for Butler. This team is more than replacing Middleton with Butler away from even sniffing a title.

They have nothing to lose so they need to do something.

I guess if you’re of the opinion that you think there’s a realistic move out there that makes us title contenders, I would agree.

I just don’t agree with that sentiment, necessarily.

To me, trading for Butler just seems like kicking the can down the road.

I agree, the trade for Dame was the same thing though I don’t think a lot of people felt that way at the time. I sure didn’t. But owners and management ultimately want butts in seats do I can see the motivation to keep kicking the can.

[msiris]

But what does blow it up look like?

The only reason I'd trade for Butler is because I'd hope he'd decline his PO and go find a longer team deal elsewhere, and having sent Midds/Bobby for him, we'd be saving $50m in cap space for next year. I also think that kind of shake up could help us this year. And who knows, it works so we could sign him for a long term deal (I don't think it will).

Otherwise we move Dame, but his value is has dropped so we'd be losing cents on the dollar. And what would we get? A couple firsts? Who even wants him?

That’s a fair question since the organization is pretty hamstrung in its ability to rebuild because of limited assets. I guess I’m open to anything, even trading Giannis.

I’m just saying that it’s 2025 and I don’t really buy this team as a title contender with a healthy Middleton or a healthy Butler. It’s an old roster that is going to just continue to limp through the postseason year after year.

I know I’m a pessimist, but the title window is 100% closed as far as I’m concerned.

My issue with trading Giannis is that the FO has proven it can't hit on draft picks. So unless we get some young stud we hope can develop into a generational player or even MVP caliber player like Shai I'd probably not do it.

We haven't shown me the ability to do anything with a haul of picks. If we were Presti and OKC I'd have faith as you look at what they've done and you're in awe. I'd almost rather trade Dame at a loss for some young rotational guys and a few firsts you hope you could hit on than risk it with Giannis.

On the other hand, I'm not ready to return to mediocrity. Not while we have Giannis. I'd rather be bitching about being in 4/5th seed than bitching about not getting a top 3 pick and then missing.

Giannis is the only thing I would not trade.

[Ron Swanson]

Trading for Jimmy makes it easier to blow up this offseason if it doesn't work out, not harder.

[ShootingtheJ]

I’d probably rather just blow it all up than trade for Butler. This team is more than replacing Middleton with Butler away from even sniffing a title.

But what does blow it up look like?

The only reason I'd trade for Butler is because I'd hope he'd decline his PO and go find a longer team deal elsewhere, and having sent Midds/Bobby for him, we'd be saving $50m in cap space for next year. I also think that kind of shake up could help us this year. And who knows, it works so we could sign him for a long term deal (I don't think it will).

Otherwise we move Dame, but his value is has dropped so we'd be losing cents on the dollar. And what would we get? A couple firsts? Who even wants him?

Letting Jimmy walk saves the owners a huge tax bill, but creates 0 cap space. We're $52 million over the cap.