Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Crowder Out 8 Weeks

[Ayt]

Like why…just why.

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**** like this and the halfhearted steal attempts on fast breaks that have absolutely no chance of being successful and lead to easy buckets drive me bonkers.

[jute2003]

Hypothetically, would you trade Khris, Bobby and Marjon for LeBron?

Hell yea lol lebron playing small ball 4 with Giannis at the 5 is unstoppable.

Giannis would still demand the ball and bulldoze into 4 defenders.

[MissKhriddleton]

I rescind my Marjon bad comment and would like to replace bad with disappointing/non-impactful. Thought we’d see enough flashes to know that he’s a guy who will for sure not be out of the league in 5 years or a guy we could trick a GM into thinking had enough upside to give up a Caruso level player.

Injury and my expectations being too high is fair. I’m still selling all my shares though.

[Ron Swanson]

Clippers in absolute chaos. Let's take advantage. Bobby + Pat + 2024 Portland 2nd for Norm Powell + Kobe Brown.

[BigO]

Clippers in absolute chaos. Let's get taken advantage of. Bobby + Pat + 2024 Portland 2nd for Norm Powell + Kobe Brown.

Let me fix your error above.

[raferfenix]

How good of a defender is Powell?

I was thinking more Terrance Mann + PJ Tucker’s contract for Bobby + Pat + MarJon. LAC would have to want to dump PJ in that scenario as we know they value Mann highly (but not so much where they refused to include him in the Holiday offer).

Or we just trade Portland’s 2nd for Tyronn Lue if one side or the other is done there.

[Ron Swanson]

I've already seen too many people that are way too reluctant to part with that Portland 2nd rounder. It's still just a 2nd round pick and if it can be sweetener in a trade to upgrade the starting SG spot, then you trade it in a heartbeat every time. Bobby's a bit more difficult because of his value in the regular season, but once again we saw that he's just invisible out there against Boston, and wasn't much of a factor against Philly either.

Bobby continues to be a luxury asset. Great 82-game player on a value contract, but if he's getting constantly nerfed against our two biggest conference rivals and can't hold up defensively in a playoff series against either, then what's the point? He's the guy you most likely need to cash out on before he hits 30.

[skones]

I will never understand the lens in which folks look at Bobby because he had a moment in the Atlanta series. Yeah, he's fun when he hits shots, and flexes, and yells to the crowd. It's just weird that he's just held to this different level of impact standard than every single other player on the roster.

[paulpressey25]

All these assets, including Bobby should be on the table. The question is the return.

What would all of you prioritize as our top three "potentially gettable" trade targets, using our assets?

I'd go:

1. Smart
2. Caruso
3. Norm Powell (Middleton replacement)

Those above may be pipe dreams. Don't know. But Horst has done amazing stuff in the past.

[Ron Swanson]

Highly doubt the Grizz are gonna bail on the Smart acquisition so soon, even with all their struggles. Caruso has gotten so monumentally overrated not just here, but around the league hot stove as well. Some dumb team is gonna fork over at least a 1st round pick if not more for him, and justify it as "market value".

Powell on the other hand seems like the odd guy out with the Harden acquisition, is still an incredibly efficient (65% TS) 3-level scorer who can play off-ball (19% usage rate and 51% catch and shoot 3PT), and has always been a better defender than given credit for (6'11 wingspan). Dude also actually shows up in the playoffs when it matters, which is something we can't say about any of the other wing options we have outside of Pat and/if Crowder is healthy. Throw in that Griffin actually worked with him in Toronto and he just makes too much sense.

[Siefer]

From KOC's power rankings:

The Adrian Griffin hire is on track to go down as the biggest mistake any team has made this offseason. After a highly aggressive defensive scheme was installed during training camp, Bucks players have already asked to revert to last season’s drop-coverage scheme. So Griffin put center Brook Lopez back into a drop to keep him closer to the rim. But the Bucks are still putting pressure on the ball 40 feet from the basket, no matter who is defending, from Bobby Portis to Malik Beasley. There doesn’t seem to be too much logic behind it. Griffin is simply running a scheme that resembles what he orchestrated with the Raptors, and not adapting to the talents of his new team. As a result, and with Jrue Holiday gone, the Bucks rank 20th in defensive rating. Point-of-attack defense is clearly an issue, so why is a subpar defender like Beasley starting? At some point, should rookie Andre Jackson Jr. get a chance? Jackson is an energetic defender who could become an on-ball stopper, and offensively, he could add some flair with his cutting, screening, and playmaking. But Griffin hasn’t quite shown an ability to maximize the team’s talent on that end, either. Giannis Antetokounmpo and Damian Lillard run only a handful of dribble handoffs per game, and they aren’t pounding pick-and-rolls like you would expect them to. There is a ton of time for Griffin to figure out the best mix for this group. But so far, the only solution has been letting Giannis or Dame take over games. Even at 12-5, it feels like the Bucks are leaving a lot of meat on the bone due to their rookie coach.

[BUCKnation]

I've said it before and I love Bobby, but I'd move on quickly if someone offered a decent wing for him. Other than Philly and Miami a bit, he just hasn't really been an asset against other top teams.

[paulpressey25]

Powell on the other hand seems like the odd guy out with the Harden acquisition, is still an incredibly efficient (65% TS) 3-level scorer who can play off-ball (19% usage rate and 51% catch and shoot 3PT), and has always been a better defender than given credit for (6'11 wingspan).

You've been riding the Norm Powell train here for awhile. It's making a lot more sense to me, given Middleton's health. But do the Clippers need Bobby or Pat or Marjon or that 2nd for him? And if Bobby, who is our backup big?

My preferred trade that will never happen would be Bobby/Pat for Powell/PJ. That solves a lot of things for us. But the salaries just don't work.

[BigO]

I've already seen too many people that are way too reluctant to part with that Portland 2nd rounder. It's still just a 2nd round pick and if it can be sweetener in a trade to upgrade the starting SG spot, then you trade it in a heartbeat every time. Bobby's a bit more difficult because of his value in the regular season, but once again we saw that he's just invisible out there against Boston, and wasn't much of a factor against Philly either.

Bobby continues to be a luxury asset. Great 82-game player on a value contract, but if he's getting constantly nerfed against our two biggest conference rivals and can't hold up defensively in a playoff series against either, then what's the point? He's the guy you most likely need to cash out on before he hits 30.

Bobby Portis isn't a luxury asset. He's essential. He averaged almost 10 rebounds a game last season in only 26 minutes of play. Who is going to make up for that kind of rebounding? Have you or any of the others who want to trade him ever thought of that?

You want to trade him AND PC for Norm Powell? A guy who averaged less than 3 rebounds in similar playing time and shot less efficiently? Norm Powell is a luxury.

Good rebounders don't grow on trees. I agree that everyone except Giannis and Lillard should be possibilities to trade, but you don't make the trade without figuring out who is going to make up for the rebounds (which are a big part of defense) and points.

You can make a good case that the Bucks need a Caruso or a Gary Payton type of player. But who is going to score off the bench? Who is going to make up for the rebounds?

As to Bobby Portis against good teams. Against Philly this year, he had 10 points and 6 rebounds in 19 minutes, so if that is your best case against him, ok.

The false narrative that he couldn't be played in the playoffs is ridiculous. Bud didn't play him is different than he played himself off the court. No one had a good series against Miami and he should have played against the Nets in the championship year and the series wouldn't have hinged on winning against a decimated team because of a shoe size.

The problem with the Bucks is that, as currently put together, they will never trade Lopez, KM or PC (too many ties to the community big wigs). So if you trade Portis, I want a haul in return. And Norm Powell doesn't begin to get me there.

[Ron Swanson]

Powell on the other hand seems like the odd guy out with the Harden acquisition, is still an incredibly efficient (65% TS) 3-level scorer who can play off-ball (19% usage rate and 51% catch and shoot 3PT), and has always been a better defender than given credit for (6'11 wingspan).

You've been riding the Norm Powell train here for awhile. It's making a lot more sense to me, given Middleton's health. But do the Clippers need Bobby or Pat or Marjon or that 2nd for him? And if Bobby, who is our backup big?

My preferred trade that will never happen would be Bobby/Pat for Powell/PJ. That solves a lot of things for us. But the salaries just don't work.

I backed off it a bit when the Dame trade happened, but if we're gonna ride the Griffin train out this year, we need to construct the best possible starting-5 and closing lineup we can without sacrificing offense. Powell's not Caruso on defense, but he's a long armed athletic guard who can switch. If we have to hide Khris on defense by going small and playing him at the 4, then all the more reason a guy like Norm makes sense. You can survive with Khris as your worst lateral defender on the court.

[paulpressey25]

If we have to hide Khris on defense by going small and playing him at the 4, then all the more reason a guy like Norm makes sense. You can survive with Khris as your worst lateral defender on the court.

I'm planning on Khris not being part of anything. If he play tonight, awesome. But at this point, we're in year three.

So, Powell makes a lot of sense.

[Milbucks96]

From KOC's power rankings:

The Adrian Griffin hire is on track to go down as the biggest mistake any team has made this offseason. After a highly aggressive defensive scheme was installed during training camp, Bucks players have already asked to revert to last season’s drop-coverage scheme. So Griffin put center Brook Lopez back into a drop to keep him closer to the rim. But the Bucks are still putting pressure on the ball 40 feet from the basket, no matter who is defending, from Bobby Portis to Malik Beasley. There doesn’t seem to be too much logic behind it. Griffin is simply running a scheme that resembles what he orchestrated with the Raptors, and not adapting to the talents of his new team. As a result, and with Jrue Holiday gone, the Bucks rank 20th in defensive rating. Point-of-attack defense is clearly an issue, so why is a subpar defender like Beasley starting? At some point, should rookie Andre Jackson Jr. get a chance? Jackson is an energetic defender who could become an on-ball stopper, and offensively, he could add some flair with his cutting, screening, and playmaking. But Griffin hasn’t quite shown an ability to maximize the team’s talent on that end, either. Giannis Antetokounmpo and Damian Lillard run only a handful of dribble handoffs per game, and they aren’t pounding pick-and-rolls like you would expect them to. There is a ton of time for Griffin to figure out the best mix for this group. But so far, the only solution has been letting Giannis or Dame take over games. Even at 12-5, it feels like the Bucks are leaving a lot of meat on the bone due to their rookie coach.

You don’t have to have a great coach, but it’s hard to win with a coach who is actively using players wrong on both ends. He can turn it around like Udoka and Ham did their first years after a rough start, but we need to see something soon.

[Ron Swanson]

I've already seen too many people that are way too reluctant to part with that Portland 2nd rounder. It's still just a 2nd round pick and if it can be sweetener in a trade to upgrade the starting SG spot, then you trade it in a heartbeat every time. Bobby's a bit more difficult because of his value in the regular season, but once again we saw that he's just invisible out there against Boston, and wasn't much of a factor against Philly either.

Bobby continues to be a luxury asset. Great 82-game player on a value contract, but if he's getting constantly nerfed against our two biggest conference rivals and can't hold up defensively in a playoff series against either, then what's the point? He's the guy you most likely need to cash out on before he hits 30.

Bobby Portis isn't a luxury asset. He's essential. He averaged almost 10 rebounds a game last season in only 26 minutes of play. Who is going to make up for that kind of rebounding? Have you or any of the others who want to trade him ever thought of that?

You want to trade him AND PC for Norm Powell? A guy who averaged less than 3 rebounds in similar playing time and shot less efficiently? Norm Powell is a luxury.

Good rebounders don't grow on trees. I agree that everyone except Giannis and Lillard should be possibilities to trade, but you don't make the trade without figuring out who is going to make up for the rebounds (which are a big part of defense) and points.

You can make a good case that the Bucks need a Caruso or a Gary Payton type of player. But who is going to score off the bench? Who is going to make up for the rebounds?

How are they going to replace the 9-points and 9-boards on 46% TS he's averaged the last 10-games vs. Boston including the playoffs? That shouldn't be difficult. He's straight up the most exploitable mismatch against our biggest obstacle to another Finals appearance. Love the guy as a culture-setter, but you passing the blame onto Bud doesn't handwave what we've all seen the past couple years.

[emunney]

All these assets, including Bobby should be on the table. The question is the return.

What would all of you prioritize as our top three "potentially gettable" trade targets, using our assets?

I'd go:

1. Smart
2. Caruso
3. Norm Powell (Middleton replacement)

Those above may be pipe dreams. Don't know. But Horst has done amazing stuff in the past.

I see Eason out in Houston with a smaller role than he had as a rookie and my eyebrows arch. If MarJon and the Portland pick gets that done, that could be a massive deal for us, and not just for this season.

[BigO]

I've already seen too many people that are way too reluctant to part with that Portland 2nd rounder. It's still just a 2nd round pick and if it can be sweetener in a trade to upgrade the starting SG spot, then you trade it in a heartbeat every time. Bobby's a bit more difficult because of his value in the regular season, but once again we saw that he's just invisible out there against Boston, and wasn't much of a factor against Philly either.

Bobby continues to be a luxury asset. Great 82-game player on a value contract, but if he's getting constantly nerfed against our two biggest conference rivals and can't hold up defensively in a playoff series against either, then what's the point? He's the guy you most likely need to cash out on before he hits 30.

Bobby Portis isn't a luxury asset. He's essential. He averaged almost 10 rebounds a game last season in only 26 minutes of play. Who is going to make up for that kind of rebounding? Have you or any of the others who want to trade him ever thought of that?

You want to trade him AND PC for Norm Powell? A guy who averaged less than 3 rebounds in similar playing time and shot less efficiently? Norm Powell is a luxury.

Good rebounders don't grow on trees. I agree that everyone except Giannis and Lillard should be possibilities to trade, but you don't make the trade without figuring out who is going to make up for the rebounds (which are a big part of defense) and points.

You can make a good case that the Bucks need a Caruso or a Gary Payton type of player. But who is going to score off the bench? Who is going to make up for the rebounds?

How are they going to replace the 9-points and 9-boards on 46% TS he's averaged the last 10-games vs. Boston including the playoffs? That shouldn't be difficult. He's straight up the most exploitable mismatch against our biggest obstacle to another Finals appearance. Love the guy as a culture-setter, but you passing the blame onto Bud doesn't handwave what we've all seen the past couple years.

Saying he's the most exploitable mismatch doesn't make it true. Too many posters make absolute statements like this as if it's fact.

I can pick and choose stats like anyone. How's this?

In the championship series against the Suns, he played 14 and 5 minutes in the first two games and the Bucks got blown out in each game. Then Bud reluctantly played him a minimum of 18 minutes the final four games and the Bucks won every one, including BP scoring 16 in the closeout game.

His stats the last several years speak for themselves and the eye test in terms of scoring off the bench and having another great rebounder besides Giannis, can't be overstated.

I will admit, he's the one player that will get other teams eyes lit up if he becomes available. But it better be a big haul, not a sieve on defense who can't rebound.