Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Beal for Midds discussed last year

[MickeyDavis]

Good news on Trent.

[Daver]

[quote="MickeyDavis"]Good news on Trent.[/quo


If we are talking about what doc said i would say thats excellent bews dodged a big time bullet there

[buckboy]

I'll remain skeptical of Dunn until he proves he can at least be a "meh" offensive player (which he might).

[soxperry]

Since becoming gm in 2017, Horst has 4 players in the first round:

2017: DJ Wilson
2018: DDV
2022: Marjon
2024: AJ Johnson

Two are busts, one was a great pick, too soon on AJ. In the bust drafts, if you look at who was taken after our pick in the first, the bust rate is 57% in 2017 and almost 100% in 2022.

It sucks that we didnt hit at least one more of those but the odds dont seem great in hindsight.

[emunney]

The DJ Wilson pick was terrible. I can forgive the MarJon pick in that context, but similarly contextualizing the Donte pick brings that choice down to Earth as well. Tons of quality players came off the board after Donte. It was a hard year to miss (good job, Bulls).

[Fotis St]

Bobby over Khris is a wild take lmao

That's where I stopped reading.

Bobby rebounds the ball on the defensive end while Khris is a chair. Offensively Khris looks better cause he always had a green light to put up as many shots as he wants. Bobby has always been a breath of fresh air coming off the bench with his energy and scoring. So though a close call, Bobby's rebounding for this team is the tie breaker with Khris. Having Dame (+GTJ+AJ Green+Dellon) just changes our offensive dynamics, it makes Khris replaceable. We can't replace Portis rebounding with anyone ... Rookie Tyler Smith is a softie on that end.

[Daver]

Bobby over Khris is a wild take lmao

That's where I stopped reading.

Bobby rebounds the ball on the defensive end while Khris is a chair. Offensively Khris looks better cause he always had a green light to put up as many shots as he wants. Bobby has always been a breath of fresh air coming off the bench with his energy and scoring. So though a close call, Bobby's rebounding for this team is the tie breaker with Khris. Having Dame (+GTJ+AJ Green+Dellon) just changes our offensive dynamics, it makes Khris replaceable. We can't replace Portis rebounding with anyone ... Rookie Tyler Smith is a softie on that end.

Comeon now fortis i know your anti midds but FFS portis is as far away from a team player as corey maggete was.Kris has always played within the O plays some D rebounds ok n absolutely is a much better player than portis.Definition of ball stopper is portis .Midds has averaged 5 to 6 assts every game for like forever.When has portis ever made a pass to anyone

[jimmybones]

Bobby Portis over Khris Middleton

Because of rebounding

Classic

[ShootingtheJ]

I don't really care much for all the hindsight re-litigating of any pre-2021 moves. We won a championship and I wouldn't change a thing, but post-title is all fair game at this point. And I think the immediate offseason afterwards isn't getting talked about enough.
Bobby giving us a discount to stay another season came out of left field, and that should have allowed us to give PJ the 2-yr $20 million dollar contract he wanted and he never bolts for Miami. We also had the 31st pick in that draft but decided to break that up into a bunch of 2nd's that we eventually spent on Grayson and the corpse of Jae Crowder. Herb Jones goes 3-picks after #31 in that draft and the rest is history.

If we run it back with PJ, we never have to dump Donte for the corpse of Serge Ibaka. Sure, maybe PJ still opts out and leaves after the 2022 playoffs, and maybe they don't work out an extension with Donte and he gets sign & traded for pennies, but an alternate universe where you have Donte, Herb Jones, and PJ on the roster for these past 2-3 years when those are pretty much the exact kind of guys we're all clamoring for (point-of-attack and switchable small-ball 4 defenders) would have probably avoided all these problems. We've basically been trying and failing to replace 2021 PJ for the last 3-years, and if a guy like Ryan Dunn eventually becomes that kind of impact player, then whoof, it's just another painful swing and miss.

Just adding a footnote to the Donte for Ibaka part. Donte was traded for Ibaka, Tyler Smith, and 2nd that was including in the ill fated Crowder deal.

[Daver]

Bobby Portis over Khris Middleton

Because of rebounding

Classic

No sh... huh comparing portis to midds is so fu... up

[WeMajor34]

I don't really care much for all the hindsight re-litigating of any pre-2021 moves. We won a championship and I wouldn't change a thing, but post-title is all fair game at this point. And I think the immediate offseason afterwards isn't getting talked about enough.
Bobby giving us a discount to stay another season came out of left field, and that should have allowed us to give PJ the 2-yr $20 million dollar contract he wanted and he never bolts for Miami. We also had the 31st pick in that draft but decided to break that up into a bunch of 2nd's that we eventually spent on Grayson and the corpse of Jae Crowder. Herb Jones goes 3-picks after #31 in that draft and the rest is history.

If we run it back with PJ, we never have to dump Donte for the corpse of Serge Ibaka. Sure, maybe PJ still opts out and leaves after the 2022 playoffs, and maybe they don't work out an extension with Donte and he gets sign & traded for pennies, but an alternate universe where you have Donte, Herb Jones, and PJ on the roster for these past 2-3 years when those are pretty much the exact kind of guys we're all clamoring for (point-of-attack and switchable small-ball 4 defenders) would have probably avoided all these problems. We've basically been trying and failing to replace 2021 PJ for the last 3-years, and if a guy like Ryan Dunn eventually becomes that kind of impact player, then whoof, it's just another painful swing and miss.

Just adding a footnote to the Donte for Ibaka part. Donte was traded for Ibaka, Tyler Smith, and 2nd that was including in the ill fated Crowder deal.

Crazy to revisit that trade considering the player that Donte is now. In hindsight, we obviously keep Donte over Grayson even though I’ll admit I was on the Grayson bandwagon at the time.

Donte for Ibaka is the worst trade of the Horst era imo. I’ll never forget paying attention to all of the Bucks-Donte rumors at the time. There was one hot rumor from Jake Fischer (take with a grain of salt) that the Bucks were in discussions with the Wizards for KCP. We most likely go back to back in 2022 if that trade goes through, even with the Khris injury.

[Bernman]

It's just a shame Lasry didn't transition out sooner, because he was impeding this franchise from going over the luxury tax to sign players like Donte & PJ. That was the main problem.

Donte may have taken the QO & been gone long ago. Or he signs an offer sheet elsewhere hoping we don't match, similar to the contract he ultimately got w/ the Knicks, we re-up, then try to mend the relationship. It sounds like there isn't bad blood.

Lasry was an albatross to this franchise. Didn't he push us to hire Horst instead of Zanik too cuz he wanted a more malleable GM? Most of the damage is already done. I wish we'd get a real gm now though.

[JayMKE]

I'm not gonna lament losing DDV; the fact was he was the odd man out between him, Pat, and Grayson. He was a bad shooter here, was injured more than Brogdon, and turned down I believe the same 4/40 extension that Grayson got. Remember now he was supposed to be traded for Bogdan Bogdanović anyway.

[BroncoBuck]

Don't you guys dare try and challenge my status as the resident conductor of the Ryan Dunn hype train. I'm practically hand-to-hand combat-ing the urge in my head to say "I told you so".

*Repeats "it's just preseason" over and over in my head*

This is how I feel about Jordan Walsh.

[MVP2110]

It's just a shame Lasry didn't transition out sooner, because he was impeding this franchise from going over the luxury tax to sign players like Donte & PJ. That was the main problem.

Donte may have taken the QO & been gone long ago. Or he signs an offer sheet elsewhere hoping we don't match, similar to the contract he ultimately got w/ the Knicks, we re-up, then try to mend the relationship. It sounds like there isn't bad blood.

Lasry was an albatross to this franchise. Didn't he push us to hire Horst instead of Zanik too cuz he wanted a more malleable GM? Most of the damage is already done. I wish we'd get a real gm now though.

I think Lasry gets a bit of an unfair rap around here. The leaks that often got blamed on Lasry still occur now even though he's gone. Haslam spends more money for sure but he made a pretty big mistake with his first major decision in going from Bud to Adrian Griffin and now to Doc Rivers. I'm very skeptical that Haslam is a better owner than Lasry even though he's willing to spend more. Money isn't everything when it comes to sports ownership

[engelmartin]

I understand that the hivemind hated Kolek, but who doesn’t want TJ McConnell with a three?

[ShootingtheJ]

I don't really care much for all the hindsight re-litigating of any pre-2021 moves. We won a championship and I wouldn't change a thing, but post-title is all fair game at this point. And I think the immediate offseason afterwards isn't getting talked about enough.
Bobby giving us a discount to stay another season came out of left field, and that should have allowed us to give PJ the 2-yr $20 million dollar contract he wanted and he never bolts for Miami. We also had the 31st pick in that draft but decided to break that up into a bunch of 2nd's that we eventually spent on Grayson and the corpse of Jae Crowder. Herb Jones goes 3-picks after #31 in that draft and the rest is history.

If we run it back with PJ, we never have to dump Donte for the corpse of Serge Ibaka. Sure, maybe PJ still opts out and leaves after the 2022 playoffs, and maybe they don't work out an extension with Donte and he gets sign & traded for pennies, but an alternate universe where you have Donte, Herb Jones, and PJ on the roster for these past 2-3 years when those are pretty much the exact kind of guys we're all clamoring for (point-of-attack and switchable small-ball 4 defenders) would have probably avoided all these problems. We've basically been trying and failing to replace 2021 PJ for the last 3-years, and if a guy like Ryan Dunn eventually becomes that kind of impact player, then whoof, it's just another painful swing and miss.

Just adding a footnote to the Donte for Ibaka part. Donte was traded for Ibaka, Tyler Smith, and 2nd that was including in the ill fated Crowder deal.

Crazy to revisit that trade considering the player that Donte is now. In hindsight, we obviously keep Donte over Grayson even though I’ll admit I was on the Grayson bandwagon at the time.

Donte for Ibaka is the worst trade of the Horst era imo. I’ll never forget paying attention to all of the Bucks-Donte rumors at the time. There was one hot rumor from Jake Fischer (take with a grain of salt) that the Bucks were in discussions with the Wizards for KCP. We most likely go back to back in 2022 if that trade goes through, even with the Khris injury.

Donte likely never becomes this player without the shooting changes from Steph.

The most harmful part of the deal will likely become landing a prime 2nd (#33) in the deal, but wasting it on Tyler Smith.

[MickeyDavis]

It's just a shame Lasry didn't transition out sooner, because he was impeding this franchise from going over the luxury tax to sign players like Donte & PJ. That was the main problem.

Donte may have taken the QO & been gone long ago. Or he signs an offer sheet elsewhere hoping we don't match, similar to the contract he ultimately got w/ the Knicks, we re-up, then try to mend the relationship. It sounds like there isn't bad blood.

Lasry was an albatross to this franchise. Didn't he push us to hire Horst instead of Zanik too cuz he wanted a more malleable GM? Most of the damage is already done. I wish we'd get a real gm now though.

I think Lasry gets a bit of an unfair rap around here. The leaks that often got blamed on Lasry still occur now even though he's gone. Haslam spends more money for sure but he made a pretty big mistake with his first major decision in going from Bud to Adrian Griffin and now to Doc Rivers. I'm very skeptical that Haslam is a better owner than Lasry even though he's willing to spend more. Money isn't everything when it comes to sports ownership

Haslam picked Griffin and Rivers?

[WeMajor34]

Read on Twitter

?s=46

Betting on teams that players may or may not sign with is asinine.

“Sweepstakes” is more than generous

[MVP2110]

It's just a shame Lasry didn't transition out sooner, because he was impeding this franchise from going over the luxury tax to sign players like Donte & PJ. That was the main problem.

Donte may have taken the QO & been gone long ago. Or he signs an offer sheet elsewhere hoping we don't match, similar to the contract he ultimately got w/ the Knicks, we re-up, then try to mend the relationship. It sounds like there isn't bad blood.

Lasry was an albatross to this franchise. Didn't he push us to hire Horst instead of Zanik too cuz he wanted a more malleable GM? Most of the damage is already done. I wish we'd get a real gm now though.

I think Lasry gets a bit of an unfair rap around here. The leaks that often got blamed on Lasry still occur now even though he's gone. Haslam spends more money for sure but he made a pretty big mistake with his first major decision in going from Bud to Adrian Griffin and now to Doc Rivers. I'm very skeptical that Haslam is a better owner than Lasry even though he's willing to spend more. Money isn't everything when it comes to sports ownership

Haslam picked Griffin and Rivers?

Yes? Ownership has final say on all major decisions. Our ownership group decided to move on from Bud, and throw a bag of money at Doc. The Griff one was widely reported to be a Giannis decision that ownership gave into him on but I absolutely think it's fair to judge ownerships in sports on how good they are at hiring GMs & coaches.

My main point was it isn't exactly like our organization has been running smoothly since Haslam replaced Lasry.