Why isn't John Hammond fired?

[paulpressey25]

Signature moves?

Getting one of the five best defenders at 15, then signing him to a below market deal? Those aren't signature moves? What does that even mean, then?

Hammond has been a pretty **** great drafter, and for a team like the Bucks that's maybe the most important quality a GM can have.

We are 5-17. ESPN ranks us as #28 in the futures rankings. Somehow this amazing drafting hasn't gotten us very far.

[bizarro]

It's very possible that he knows the game of basketball very well and has a keen eye for talent. He's proven that in his draft selections.

Again, I think this may or may not be true.

Potsie pick- disaster

Jennings pick - He wanted Johnny Flynn and passed on Holiday and Lawson. Was that a good pick four years later?

Sanders - great pick.

Tobias - nice pick, but Faried and a few other guys went after Tobias. Besides, what GM thinks it a good value proposition to drop from 7 to 19 in the draft in order to get Stephen Jackson? How poorly do you have to understand the NBA draft to not know that drop from 7 to 19 is huge?

Giannis - Dave Babcock and our Italian scout found this guy.

What? Bulls---.

You forgot Henson.

Seriously...the same genius who brings us Miroslav suddenly strikes gold with Giannis? It was the Italian scout who found him and Babcock simply got on board and was the bringer of the information. Please.

[paulpressey25]

What? Bulls---.

You forgot Henson.

Hammond was on the pre-game earlier this week with Ted Davis. Said they have a Euro scout who started to do write-ups on Giannis. Then Babcock got in there and those two convinced Hammond to go over to Europe to watch Giannis.

Sorry I forgot Henson. Love Henson. But, would this franchise's future be much worse had we just stayed at #12 and took Jeremy Lamb?

And what if the Suns didn't have a brain fart to take Kendall Marshall at #13 and took Henson instead, so we can't draft him? How stupid does Hammond look then? If you think the guy is going to be a star, you move up to get him or at least stay at pick #12.

[ReasonablySober]

I'll echo PP's thoughts. RS isn't far off in saying those were good picks but he pooped away his top 10 picks and I don't think any of those guys are moving the needle incredibly far save for maybe Giannis. - See more at: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1290117&start=315#sthash.vRNC0duK.dpuf

So they were close to being good picks? What?

Sanders, Giannis, Henson, Harris and LRMAM were steals. I'm adding Wolters to that list now too. I don't even know how that can argued.

The Bucks will never get a big time free agent. The draft is the only way they'll build contender. We all know that right? Hammond's been pretty **** awesome handling the draft, given where he's picked.

It's okay to acknowledge that, you guys.

[bizarro]

My guess is that Hammond was actually against the Tobias trade, which was probably put forth by someone else in the FO and Hammond was too weak to kill it. In the end, he was proven right, and Kohl felt bad and thought Hammond might not be so bad after all.

I know for a fact John Hammond was against the Tobias trade. It was a mandate from on high. I've said it before and I'll say it again: That's on Kohl and cronies. That is not on Hammond.

How do you know for a fact Hammond was against the Tobias trade? He's the one who pulled the Trigger. I'm pretty sure Kohl didn't call up Hennigan in Orlando asking for JJ Redick. He traded Tobias because he the Coaching staff undersold how good he really was, and that he thought he was getting Josh Smith to go a long with Redick.

I know because in conversations with a friend and a fellow Bucks fan, who happens to work in the Media and has direct access to John Hammond and the locker room, has asserted to me in more than one conversation: John Hammond did not want to include Tobias in the Redick deal. It was Kohl and cronies who gave the stamp because they wanted to get it done. The Josh Smith thing was completely blown out of proportion. Their main target was JJ Redick.

[andonewheel]

Signature moves?

Getting one of the five best defenders at 15, then signing him to a below market deal? Those aren't signature moves? What does that even mean, then?

Hammond has been a pretty **** great drafter, and for a team like the Bucks that's maybe the most important quality a GM can have.

We are 5-17. ESPN ranks us as #28 in the futures rankings. Somehow this amazing drafting hasn't gotten us very far.

I think Hammond has outperformed our draft position on multiple occasions. Amazing drafting at #15 is getting a solid starter, whereas amazing drafting in the top 5 is getting an All-Star. For where we've picked, he's done reasonably well. The problems have been that we always seem to pick in the 10-15 range and that we cannot sign any remotely good free agents for a decent price. Hammond certainly deserves blame, especially in asset management and free agency, but I give him a pass on his drafting. Even if he didn't find Giannis personally, it took some stones to OK that pick and he put his neck out to a degree.

[paulpressey25]

Seriously...the same genius who brings us Miroslav suddenly strikes gold with Giannis? It was the Italian scout who found him and Babcock simply got on board and was the bringer of the information. Please.

And the same genius who brought us Potsie, RJ, Maggette, Gooden, Monta, Tiny Gallon, Darrington Hobson, injured Delfino Mach II, Stephen Jackson, and pined for Johnny Flynn now gets all the credit for Giannis?

[Max Green]

John Hammond isn't fired yet is because he won the executive of the year award for the 09/10 season, as well as Kohl made the decision to give him an extension while we were in the in middle of the season, particular after Skiles was let go and while we were in the middle of our high point a couple of games over .500.

[Wooderson]

Hammond whiffed big time on his two biggest picks. He's been very good otherwise, but overall I give him a B in drafting and an F everywhere else.

[SkilesTheLimit]

I know we use the word "fact" quite loosely and often on this board, I do know for a FACT that Kohl influenced decision-making in the Larry Harris tenure as GM. I cited a vague example (told to me) of Harris ready to execute a trade for a white PG. Kohl stepped in and said no, trade for the black PG. And LH did.

The more widely known example is the Z-Bo trade Larry had teed up that was ultimately denied by Kohl.

I have no clue what Kohl's influence is on Bone, but if history is any indication...

[Kerb Hohl]

I'll echo PP's thoughts. RS isn't far off in saying those were good picks but he pooped away his top 10 picks and I don't think any of those guys are moving the needle incredibly far save for maybe Giannis. - See more at: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1290117&start=315#sthash.vRNC0duK.dpuf

So they were close to being good picks? What?

Sanders, Giannis, Henson, Harris and LRMAM were steals. I'm adding Wolters to that list now too. I don't even know how that can argued.

The Bucks will never get a big time free agent. The draft is the only way they'll build contender. We all know that right? Hammond's been pretty **** awesome handling the draft, given where he's picked.

It's okay to acknowledge that, you guys.

You can't have one without the other, though. If he's that great of a drafter and smart enough to know that's how we'll get a difference maker, he'd put himself in a position to get...a difference maker.

[bizarro]

I'll echo PP's thoughts. RS isn't far off in saying those were good picks but he pooped away his top 10 picks and I don't think any of those guys are moving the needle incredibly far save for maybe Giannis. - See more at: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1290117&start=315#sthash.vRNC0duK.dpuf

So they were close to being good picks? What?

Sanders, Giannis, Henson, Harris and LRMAM were steals. I'm adding Wolters to that list now too. I don't even know how that can argued.

The Bucks will never get a big time free agent. The draft is the only way they'll build contender. We all know that right? Hammond's been pretty **** awesome handling the draft, given where he's picked.

It's okay to acknowledge that, you guys.

I completely acknowledge that and agree with you, RS. I want John Hammond in the room on draft day. I know that may not be the consensus around here but I stand by my assertions he has a worse rap than he deserves because of absurd factors beyond his control - namely, a senile owner who meddles in decision-making processes with his cronies.

[andonewheel]

John Hammond isn't fired yet is because he won the executive of the year award for the 09/10 season, as well as Kohl made the decision to give him an extension while we were in the in middle of the season, particular after Skiles was let go and while we were in the middle of our high point a couple of games over .500.

I agree, and I think the extension is the main reason. Kohl lives in a delusional bubble, and if he has to admit that extending Hammond was a big enough mistake to fire him this soon, then what other realities would he have to face? Firing Hammond is simply too big of an admission of wrongdoing for Kohl to make.

[paulpressey25]

It's okay to acknowledge that, you guys.

It is a good record. But it isn't a great record. There have been plenty of other great mid-round draft picks by other organizations. The Bucks aren't alone in finding some nice players in the 14-30 range.

[trwi7]

One of these days I'm going to look at every team that has drafted from 10 on since Hammond got the job and see how many productive players they've gotten compared to the Bucks.

[SkilesTheLimit]

What? Bulls---.

You forgot Henson.

Hammond was on the pre-game earlier this week with Ted Davis. Said they have a Euro scout who started to do write-ups on Giannis. Then Babcock got in there and those two convinced Hammond to go over to Europe to watch Giannis.

Sorry PP, I can't buy this argument. The same could be said of the Brewers' Doug Melvin. He puts scouts in place all over the country and internationally. It's their jobs to report to him on players they see and then Melvin watches video, or goes to scout them and makes the ultimate decision to draft the player. The GM ultimately is the guy who gets the credit or the blame depending on how the player develops. How is Hammond any different?

[ReasonablySober]

I'll echo PP's thoughts. RS isn't far off in saying those were good picks but he pooped away his top 10 picks and I don't think any of those guys are moving the needle incredibly far save for maybe Giannis. - See more at: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1290117&start=315#sthash.vRNC0duK.dpuf

So they were close to being good picks? What?

Sanders, Giannis, Henson, Harris and LRMAM were steals. I'm adding Wolters to that list now too. I don't even know how that can argued.

The Bucks will never get a big time free agent. The draft is the only way they'll build contender. We all know that right? Hammond's been pretty **** awesome handling the draft, given where he's picked.

It's okay to acknowledge that, you guys.

You can't have one without the other, though. If he's that great of a drafter and smart enough to know that's how we'll get a difference maker, he'd put himself in a position to get...a difference maker.

I can very easily separate that. I'm not sure why others aren't. He's been terrible in virtually every other capacity as a GM, or at least isn't doing a good enough job influencing those above him. But from a strick, "You have pick number 15, now pick the best player available" perspective, he's been ridiculously good. Of course he's getting help, but that's his pick at the end of the day.

[linguini8]

I spoke with my boss' boyfriend tonight, he's on hammonds' staff.

The win now mandate is all Kohl. Hammonds wants the young guys to play and Larry Drew is being stubborn and refusing to listen to what he's being told. He truly is the tank commander. That being said Kohl wants to make the playoffs still. Like this season still... They are going to wait until around the allstar break before making a move and deciding whether or not to go for it so i wouldnt worry about Asik just yet.. If they're within sniffing distance of the 8th seed though don't be shocked to see a young guy moved. Apparently last season the Hawks pulled out of the Smith trade literally 2 mins before the deadline bc they wanted our pick and we wanted to give them Henson. We pulled the Tobias trade which all parties, kohl and hammond both, believed would put them in the playoffs.

Kohl is the problem. Larry Drew is clueless which turns out to benefit us. Hammonds has his job bc he knows the young guys are the answer and all this win now **** keeps failing.

By the way, they know all about SaveOurBucks.com

[bizarro]

Seriously...the same genius who brings us Miroslav suddenly strikes gold with Giannis? It was the Italian scout who found him and Babcock simply got on board and was the bringer of the information. Please.

And the same genius who brought us Potsie, RJ, Maggette, Gooden, Monta, Tiny Gallon, Darrington Hobson, injured Delfino Mach II, Stephen Jackson, and pined for Johnny Flynn now gets all the credit for Giannis?

PP, I'm not giving Hammond the credit for Giannis. Look at my remarks. I'm simply stating it was the scout who alerted Babcock - as you allude to from the Ted Davis interview. Babcock was high on Miroslav. This I know. Babcock was given the keys to Giannis by one of our scouts (who is actually firstly responsible to McKinney...who informs Babcock), then got on board, and Hammond got on board as well. SO, in this instance I actually give them all some credit BUT give the Italian scout his due first and foremost.

[Kerb Hohl]

I won't discount that Hammond is better than average at drafting.

However, every trade and signing has been garbage. Literally every one. Either Hammond has ZERO control or he is terrible at convincing Herb anything if you think he has a brain.

How smart of a drafter can Hammond be? I mean, I'm not completely taking credit away from the picks but how can somebody be so savvy at mining mid 1st talent and be SO INCREDIBLY STUPID on every other move? Either Herb is running 100% of the show or Hammond has gotten some luck in drafting. I can't believe a guy would be an A drafter and an F team evaluator. That's like me being a deans list student in 3rd semester calculus and getting an F in 1st semester physics.