Offseason Poll: Knight or Middleton?

[Giannis Parker]

All I know is that if we do not have scoring from PG, Kidds system is going to flounder. So if Knight is gone, we better find an adequate replacement.

My obvious choice is to keep both however, but I feel you can get what Middleton provides far more than you can get what Knight provides, including what he can grow into.

[Badgerlander]

Or if you want a less role playerey comparison, in the same way a guy like Lillard is a PG, or Kyrie is a PG. Those guys aren't amazing pick and roll passers, but they play within the offense (in the way a player like that can) and they do what they do well efficiently.

[ampd]

trolls

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk[/youtube]

[ampd]

Or if you want a less role playerey comparison, in the same way a guy like Lillard is a PG, or Kyrie is a PG. Those guys aren't amazing pick and roll passers, but they play within the offense (in the way a player like that can) and they do what they do well efficiently.

Not sure you have a point. All 3 have similar overall efficiency this season on their own shots. Why we are focusing purely on PPG on drives I have no idea. Knight's ability to space the floor is why I mentioned the Mario Chalmers role.

[mattg]

Well that certainly didn't take long for people that might side with Knight to be accused of being trolls...classy.

Wasn't all that long ago, Middleton was a throw in deals for a lot of you around here...I could see another scenario where he struggles for 2 weeks and people are ready to move him salary cap relief. I'm joking, but I'm not with the way the tide turns around here.

I think a lot of it has to do with how you project the two going forward. That said, if both keep up their play at the end of the season, I probably go with Middleton for many of the reasons explained above.

If Middleton slows down his shooting, and Knight demonstrates he can move the ball better, which I think he has shown flashes of over the last couple of weeks, I'd probably side with him. I still think his usage is going to decrease as Parker and Giannis increase, and if he can be a good spot up shooter, and then pure scoring guard when Parker and Giannis are on the bench that is pretty damn useful and more versatile than Middleton can give you.

Lots of ifs here. Also this would be nice if Knight supporters don't get slammed for having a different opinion outside of the anti Knight crowd.

Well by the already overwhelming % in Middleton's favor, I am correct that only trolls will vote for Knight. This is an either or question, and a dumb question to begin with. You can be a Knight supporter, I am to a certain extent, and believe that "Knight or Middleton" is a ridiculous question.

Don't dance around what you want to say: "only stupid people will choose knight in this comparison". Because to believe people are actually trolling by choosing knight you'd have to think that the people making that choice are only doing so with the sole intent of annoying posters who aren't huge knight fans.

And fwiw, it's impossible for this to be a 'dumb' question because of the variables in play here. We don't know how much either guy is going to cost and when it truly comes down to it, price is the main determinant in this comparison because neither player is THAT good. If I say Middleton for 9m per or knight for the max then it's easy right? Khris all day. But what if it's knight for 7m per vs 12m for khris? Suddenly it's not such an easy decision.

[Giannis Parker]

I guess the league is trolling as well when they consider Knight the best player on the Bucks and a potential replacement player for Wade.....

In the end, Middleton is a fit piece, Knight is slightly more than that. Both are good pieces, both will cost 10-12m per annually. Both should be part of this rebuild.

[ampd]

Well that certainly didn't take long for people that might side with Knight to be accused of being trolls...classy.

Wasn't all that long ago, Middleton was a throw in deals for a lot of you around here...I could see another scenario where he struggles for 2 weeks and people are ready to move him salary cap relief. I'm joking, but I'm not with the way the tide turns around here.

I think a lot of it has to do with how you project the two going forward. That said, if both keep up their play at the end of the season, I probably go with Middleton for many of the reasons explained above.

If Middleton slows down his shooting, and Knight demonstrates he can move the ball better, which I think he has shown flashes of over the last couple of weeks, I'd probably side with him. I still think his usage is going to decrease as Parker and Giannis increase, and if he can be a good spot up shooter, and then pure scoring guard when Parker and Giannis are on the bench that is pretty damn useful and more versatile than Middleton can give you.

Lots of ifs here. Also this would be nice if Knight supporters don't get slammed for having a different opinion outside of the anti Knight crowd.

Well by the already overwhelming % in Middleton's favor, I am correct that only trolls will vote for Knight. This is an either or question, and a dumb question to begin with. You can be a Knight supporter, I am to a certain extent, and believe that "Knight or Middleton" is a ridiculous question.

Don't dance around what you want to say: "only stupid people will choose knight in this comparison". Because to believe people are actually trolling by choosing knight you'd have to think that the people making that choice are only doing so with the sole intent of annoying posters who aren't huge knight fans.

And fwiw, it's impossible for this to be a 'dumb' question because of the variables in play here. We don't know how much either guy is going to cost and when it truly comes down to it, price is the main determinant in this comparison because neither player is THAT good. If I say Middleton for 9m per or knight for the max then it's easy right? Khris all day. But what if it's knight for 7m per vs 12m for khris? Suddenly it's not such an easy decision.

Exactly. Which is why I said in my earlier post it comes down to what role you see them playing on this team going forward and how much they cost. If you see either or both of them as a future 6th man then they're probably at peak value now and should be traded or sign and traded.

[pe_it72]

I think there will be a bigger push for Middleton around the league than there will be for Knight. Look at the rosters. 25-27 teams have a point guard that they are committed to. They are either better, about as good or younger players that they are trying to develop. The only way Knight should get more than him is because we are going to bid against ourselves.

[ampd]

I guess the league is trolling as well when they consider Knight the best player on the Bucks and a potential replacement player for Wade.....

In the end, Middleton is a fit piece, Knight is slightly more than that. Both are good pieces, both will cost 10-12m per annually. Both should be part of this rebuild.

To be fair, if we had a poll 2 months ago of 'would you rather keep' Knight vs Nate Wolters, our forum would have chosen the guy currently out of the NBA. And all without trolling.

So yeah, Knight will lose any popularity contest, and Middleton will probably end up being better value for the money considering his PPGZ stats aren't there right now to inflate his market value, but it's a closer race than it will be given credit for here.

[mattg]

I think there will be a bigger push for Middleton around the league than there will be for Knight. Look at the rosters. 25-27 teams have a point guard that they are committed to. They are either better, about as good or younger players that they are trying to develop. The only way Knight should get more than him is because we are going to bid against ourselves.

It's definitely an interesting thing to watch going forward. Everyone who wants knight gone parrots the fact that he is going to cost 12-14m per year because that's what kemba got and PPGZ PGs always get paid. And maybe that does indeed happen, I sure won't count it out. Yet 90% of the nba is set at PG going forward and there have been a few guys lately who have gotten significantly less than that figure(Thomas/Teague). I just feel that the argument can be made in both directions fairly equally and we have no clue how everything plays out. I don't want knight on an albatross, but I also don't want to give him away when we could retain him at a reasonable price.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

at the same money id take knight. im assuming that's how everybody is answering this?

[ReasonablySober]

Knight's never shown the willingness or ability to play the kind of role that even his supporters here think he's best suited for.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Knight's never shown the willingness or ability to play the kind of role that even his supporters here think he's best suited for.

id like to hear what his supporters believe this role is supposed to be. I haven't heard that clearly defined myself.

I think most of his supporters are in general far less worried about his evolution than his detractors. personally I believe that as the team ages and more talent is developed....his usage will drop. I don't think its that complicated honestly.

[AussieBuck]

Middleton unless we are matching some kind of max or near number and Knight is getting a Bayless deal.

[step3profit]

Middleton unless we are matching some kind of max or near number and Knight is getting a Bayless deal.

In which case, "neither".

[AussieBuck]

Middleton unless we are matching some kind of max or near number and Knight is getting a Bayless deal.

In which case, "neither".

I'd pay Knight $3 million. He'd probably have some decent resale value as a younger Bayless.

[step3profit]

On a serious note, I go Middleton on this one, like most people. I don't think overly ball dominant guards tend to just wise up and voluntarily reduce their usage after landing big contracts, which is what Knight would need to do. That's just not a thing that happens a lot.

The only way you keep both is if Knight can be a 6 man, or Giannis slides to the 5 and a big PG is picked up, leaving the lineup as

Newb
Knight
Middleton
Parker
Giannis

[Chapter29]

Easy sneezy poll....Middleton.

Man did we win that trade or what? 2 best players in the trade.

[MiltownHawkeye]

Knight's never shown the willingness or ability to play the kind of role that even his supporters here think he's best suited for.

id like to hear what his supporters believe this role is supposed to be. I haven't heard that clearly defined myself.

I think most of his supporters are in general far less worried about his evolution than his detractors. personally I believe that as the team ages and more talent is developed....his usage will drop. I don't think its that complicated honestly.

And what people have reservations with is paying him to fill this lower-usage role that he has yet to show ability or willingness to play. I think you understood that and just wanted to get some snark in.

[MickeyDavis]

It's critical that the team has this figured out before the deadline. Decide who's staying and who's not and try to get an asset(s) for anyone you don't plan to keep. This is when a GM earns his paycheck.