Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Grayson Extended - 2/$20 million

[leroyjw10]

I skipped the last three pages of the previous thread because I assume it's all just bickering.

I'm not going out on a limb here at all, but I think the coaches/front office believe the following:

1) Nwora will be able to contribute as a regular rotation player this season. Not first guy off the bench or anything, but he'll play.
2) Hood will improve further removed from his injury issues and be a solid backup.
3) DDV will be fine (this is the biggie)

Less certain, but could also be thinking:

4) Merrill will improve enough get to a few minutes per game in the regular season, mainly has a guy moving without the ball, coming off screens, looking for threes. Probably wouldn't be out there with Nwora except in garbage time.
5) Diakite has potential to contribute the following season as he puts on muscle and figures out the defense. Offensively, he could probably be ok for a few minutes per game in the regular season this year against lesser teams (3&D, pick-and-roll type guy). Clearly has potential, just needs to get stronger and learn where to be on an NBA defense (of course, only playing in garbage time or in games where all the starters sit didn't help). Dude learned under Tony Bennett and was one of the best defenders in the country in college, so he has the ability and smarts. He's obviously really well-liked among his teammates.

All of the above, plus being handcuffed (in a good way, not complaining) to the "big three" contracts mean that they didn't find the need to panic and start overspending. Also, we have no idea what they really tried to do. They might have tried to sign a whole bunch of guys, but were turned down.

I'd add that the FO thinks Semi can replace what Tucker offers on the floor. And I totally get that. Same body type, same offensive skillset. Semi's just a younger version. Personally, I think the Celtics system was a little dysfunctional in recent years. I think we could see Semi take a mini-leap playing with Giannis and for Bud.

[emunney]

Ultimately it doesn't matter who the hell we have as long as Giannis, Middleton and & Jrue are here. The rest should be a revolving door of serviceable guys. That's generally how it works when you have that much money tied up between 3 guys.

If you're planning on playing 100+ games, how many serviceable guys do you think you need?

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Letting Tucker walk could end up a Scott Williams caliber screw up.

letting williams go wasnt a screwup except we replaced him with anthony mason.

what happened then is nothing even close to what we just did

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

I'd add that the FO thinks Semi can replace what Tucker offers on the floor. And I totally get that. Same body type, same offensive skillset. Semi's just a younger version. Personally, I think the Celtics system was a little dysfunctional in recent years. I think we could see Semi take a mini-leap playing with Giannis and for Bud.

id assume bud had some input. considering he was the first guy id suggest he may have even been hand selected

[Reggie White]

I've been so used to lamenting how the Bucks missed out on championships in the past, I'm not sure I actually know how to act in the offseason this year. I'm guessing Cubs fans felt the same way after 2016?

Because the Bucks used $4 million of the $5.7 MLE on George Hill, it looks like the significant free agent signings are done for this offseason. I'm hopeful that DDV can feel like a free agent signing as well.

It would have been fun to watch DDV on defense in the playoffs. Coupled with Holiday, they could have switched off harassing Trae Young, Kyrie, Chris Paul and Booker. I hope that DDV hits the weights hard this offseason (when he can) so he can be ready for the physicality of the playoffs. He will bring so much more defensive speed than PJ Tucker did--and hopefully he can bring a similar toughness and "dawg" attitude.

Although ... it could be interesting if DDV gets switched on defense to guarding KD. Not sure how that would turn out.

P.S. Long time listener, rarely a poster ... so fun to follow you guys during this championship year!

[emunney]

Nigeria had 9 current and future NBA players and Nwora was the only double digit scorer (21ppg). You can say what you will about him (I have) but the guy is a scoring machine.

Given the success Giannis has had playing with finishers like Bobby, you have to wonder how Nwora figured into the PJ plans. The Athletic piece mentioned going younger, and it was probably my anti-Nwora bias that kept me from recognizing that they weren't talking about signing a younger player, they were talking about Nwora. Let's hope he keeps his momentum in SL and shows enough defensively to get on the court in October.

Of course, the big logistical problem with Nwora is that if he's good, we can't keep him as using the Arenas provision hard caps you.

[ackypoo]

nwora is a bucket getter. but his defense is worse than forbes right now. if hes going to play any meaningful minutes ever, he needs to do a lot of work.

[M-C-G]

I feel like one more year of Tucker would have been great for ingraining that workman/dawg attitude into our culture. I echo the Scott Williams concerns and add a shade of Kurt Thomas/Jerry Stackhouse. Some guys are just more valuable to the culture and clubhouse than they are on the court.

[leroyjw10]

Nigeria had 9 current and future NBA players and Nwora was the only double digit scorer (21ppg). You can say what you will about him (I have) but the guy is a scoring machine.

Given the success Giannis has had playing with finishers like Bobby, you have to wonder how Nwora figured into the PJ plans. The Athletic piece mentioned going younger, and it was probably my anti-Nwora bias that kept me from recognizing that they weren't talking about signing a younger player, they were talking about Nwora. Let's hope he keeps his momentum in SL and shows enough defensively to get on the court in October.

Of course, the big logistical problem with Nwora is that if he's good, we can't keep him as using the Arenas provision hard caps you.

I've been a little surprised by the amount of negativity sent Nwora's way. Everybody's so concerned about what he isn't instead of focusing on what he is. I'd wager that at his price point (<$2M), he's one of, if not the best, scorer in the NBA. He is a certifiable bucket getter. It's important to remember that he likely plays 12-15 minutes at most, typically against reserves, so his defensive limitations will be minimized. Plus, giving him actual in-game reps will probably help improve his defense.

I'd say that, with opportunity, Nwora at least matches what Forbes provided last year. A bigger version of Forbes is a pretty good guy to have on any team.

[crowhead76]

Mamu 's deal is a 2 year 2 way, did not catch that before.

[MickeyDavis]

The consensus seems to be that LED were willing to pay the tax to get a championship but now that we have one they are being "cheap". That could certainly be the case. No one knows who we did or didn't target. Could be that some/many of the players this board wants were not interested in playing here. I'm more interested in the roster going into the playoffs than the roster 7 weeks before camp opens.

[paulpressey25]

For those wondering why some of us are salty on this, it is because the Bucks still have a great window here to repeat. The 2021 title was fantastic, but to quote Ron Wolf, you don't want to be a "fart in the wind" like he felt the 1996 Packers were, after they lost to Denver in 1997.

1) Khris and Jrue are at the end of their primes. When done, we won't have any exit strategies to replace them easily with similar caliber players.

2) Giannis is in his peak prime right now. Dude has been here EIGHT YEARS already. This is his moment for Jordan legacy greatness

3) The team only really needed to keep Bobby and PJ, while adding a combo scoring guard who is better (and healthier) than Donte.

That's it. That's all that needed to be done. And it wasn't.

Doesn't mean the window is closed. But it slipped down a few inches in the past week IMO.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

I feel like one more year of Tucker would have been great for ingraining that workman/dawg attitude into our culture. I echo the Scott Williams concerns and add a shade of Kurt Thomas/Jerry Stackhouse. Some guys are just more valuable to the culture and clubhouse than they are on the court.

Personally, I think he was more Stackhouse. Outplayed his talent at 35 with the Bucks and had some great moments. Got his standing ovation in the playoffs. Next season he went to Miami with minimal impact.

I don't disagree you need guys like that but sometimes you need them for one year and move on. Scott Williams was 33 when we got rid of him, so he had a few more years.

Plus i think it was more than just losing him when you factor in Mason and the rest of team chemistry. I dont think Scottie could've saved that locker room if we magically added him.

[DingleJerry]

Nigeria had 9 current and future NBA players and Nwora was the only double digit scorer (21ppg). You can say what you will about him (I have) but the guy is a scoring machine.

Given the success Giannis has had playing with finishers like Bobby, you have to wonder how Nwora figured into the PJ plans. The Athletic piece mentioned going younger, and it was probably my anti-Nwora bias that kept me from recognizing that they weren't talking about signing a younger player, they were talking about Nwora. Let's hope he keeps his momentum in SL and shows enough defensively to get on the court in October.

Of course, the big logistical problem with Nwora is that if he's good, we can't keep him as using the Arenas provision hard caps you.

Can you explain this? Really, you can't sign your own 2nd rounder if you're over the cap?

[greekbuck34]

nwora is a bucket getter. but his defense is worse than forbes right now. if hes going to play any meaningful minutes ever, he needs to do a lot of work.

His defense is Jabari Parker level of bad but unlike Jabari I think he understands that he is also getting paid to defend. Learning how to defend is easier than getting buckets with every single possible way.

[Coach Carter]

nwora is a bucket getter. but his defense is worse than forbes right now. if hes going to play any meaningful minutes ever, he needs to do a lot of work.

Our coaches improved both Brook n Portis on that end. Hoping they can do the same with Nwora.

[Turk Nowitzki]

For those wondering why some of us are salty on this, it is because the Bucks still have a great window here to repeat. The 2021 title was fantastic, but to quote Ron Wolf, you don't want to be a "fart in the wind" like he felt the 1996 Packers were, after they lost to Denver in 1997.

1) Khris and Jrue are at the end of their primes. When done, we won't have any exit strategies to replace them easily with similar caliber players.

2) Giannis is in his peak prime right now. Dude has been here EIGHT YEARS already. This is his moment for Jordan legacy greatness

3) The team only really needed to keep Bobby and PJ, while adding a combo scoring guard who is better (and healthier) than Donte.

That's it. That's all that needed to be done. And it wasn't.

Doesn't mean the window is closed. But it slipped down a few inches in the past week IMO.

I'm on your side of the PJ Tucker and ownership thing but even given that I think this is a little doom and gloom.

1) Khris is just about to turn 30. Of course every player is different but the way be plays I think he's going to age very well into his mid 30's. Jrue maybe slightly more at risk but the modern NBA and modern medicine is keeping these players effective later and later into their 30's if they are fortunate with injuries and willing to put in the work.

2) Once Bobby did us a massive favor (which we're already all kind of glossing over how insane this was, he should really be gone) I'm in agreement that things didn't go to plan. I disagree about needing/expecting to find a better player than Donte though, was that really an expectation? Of course in a perfect world we would but I don't know that I was expecting it.

Long story short, barring unexpected injury I think our big picture window is about at the same place it has been. We can nitpick the margins all day though and we will. Did you see what Giannis did to Phoenix in the NBA Finals? If that leap is real try telling that guy our window slipped a couple inches.

[ShootingtheJ]

I feel like one more year of Tucker would have been great for ingraining that workman/dawg attitude into our culture. I echo the Scott Williams concerns and add a shade of Kurt Thomas/Jerry Stackhouse. Some guys are just more valuable to the culture and clubhouse than they are on the court.

Sure, because we have so many lazy, unmotivated guys we need an overweight player to motivate them?

I think the players we have deserve more respect than this.

[Cooleyo47]

I think it probably means that, as others have pointed out, we didn't think we'd be able to keep Bobby, and we know we're going to have to pay him and/or Donte next summer. Bobby is likely going to come in at about the MLE level with Early Bird rights. Donte will probably be similar. Those two guys combined will be basically equivalent to Bogdan + BAE. Under this theory the tax bill on the 2nd year of PJ's contract, given he insisted on a 2nd year, would be astronomical.

TLDR: it's more about next year's books than this year's.

Absolutely... They already know they'll be repeaters and they likely just gave Bobby a verbal long-term commitment.

[Finn]

Letting Tucker walk could end up a Scott Williams caliber screw up.

Don’t get me wrong I want to believe there is a plan beyond the owners cheaping out.

Either way the ESPN industrial complex is going to kill us for it.

Who cares?