Bucks vs. Cavs - 11/29 - The Return of Mo

[midranger]

To me, the Mo being an ass stuff was confirmed the day he was traded for Luke Ridnour.

I just can't think of any other reason why Hammond would have given him away for someone so much less talented.

I'm probably just rationalizing, but it makes that trade seem less **** when you think of it in terms of shedding salary and getting rid of a team cancer.

I think it's likely that Bogut didn't like Mo. Hammond/Kohl were looking to lock up Bogut as their future guy and they traded Mo. That's fine. It makes sense. However, every other Buck seems to like Mo quite a bit. Sessions called him his mentor and talks to him 2-3 times a week. There were hugs all around during the reunion game. Mo was offering housing to training camp invites. And, of course, don't forget the Mo Williams Show.

Meanwhile, Bogut is high-fiving himself, working alone with some guy named Sinisia, and talking about how he hates American/hip-hop culture. Of the two, we all know who was better liked in the locker room (by the other players at least).

[tasball]

To me, the Mo being an ass stuff was confirmed the day he was traded for Luke Ridnour.

I just can't think of any other reason why Hammond would have given him away for someone so much less talented.

I'm probably just rationalizing, but it makes that trade seem less **** when you think of it in terms of shedding salary and getting rid of a team cancer.

I think it's likely that Bogut didn't like Mo. Hammond/Kohl were looking to lock up Bogut as their future guy and they traded Mo. That's fine. It makes sense. However, every other Buck seems to like Mo quite a bit. Sessions called him his mentor and talks to him 2-3 times a week. There were hugs all around during the reunion game. Mo was offering housing to training camp invites. And, of course, don't forget the Mo Williams Show.

Meanwhile, Bogut is high-fiving himself, working alone with some guy named Sinisia, and talking about how he hates American/hip-hop culture. Of the two, we all know who was better liked in the locker room (by the other players at least).

Hey "snake in the grass" - you're full of BS.

[jerrod]

working alone with some guy named Sinisia,

until dude wanted a raise after bogut signs a massive deal. i just think that's funny

[midranger]

Oh noes, not BS.

What isn't true in that post.

Sessions = mentor? Fact.
Hugs? Fact.
Housing invites? Fact.
Mo Williams Show? Fact.

Self high-five? Fact.
Sinisia? Fact.
Hip-hop culture? Fact.

Just because you don't like hearing things, it doesn't make them untrue.

Come stronger. Please.

[tasball]

And Mo will play how Lebron wants him to play at Cavs ....yes Sir, no Sir....(Bucks had nobody of Lebrons statue).

When Lebron leaves the Cavs........

And if the Bucks hierachy listened to a 22yo player that after 3 years is but an above average player... Maybe Bogut got Porter the sack, let Kareem go to the Lakers and is the reason why Allen is with the Celtics!

[REDDzone]

I think it's likely that Bogut didn't like Mo.

Why would this be the case? What leads you to believe that Bogut disliked Mo?

It just seems weird to me that all the players love Mo except Bogut, and all the players dislike Bogut, so Mo is traded and Bogut is re-signed. Just doesn't make much sense to me, especially considering how well-documented the extensive communication was between Hammond/Skiles and the players in their early days in office.

I just don't think Hammond is an idiot, if you got all these guys talking up Mo and Mo is offering up his house, and mentoring the young players, etc. it seems as if that would have been duly noted. The same goes for if no one was liking Bogut, he didn't have friends on the team, he hated hip-hop, etc.

There just has to be more to the situation than we are aware of IMO.

[midranger]

I think it's likely that Bogut didn't like Mo.

Why would this be the case? What leads you to believe that Bogut disliked Mo?

It just seems weird to me that all the players love Mo except Bogut, and all the players dislike Bogut, so Mo is traded and Bogut is re-signed. Just doesn't make much sense to me, especially considering how well-documented the extensive communication was between Hammond/Skiles and the players in their early days in office.

I just don't think Hammond is an idiot, if you got all these guys talking up Mo and Mo is offering up his house, and mentoring the young players, etc. it seems as if that would have been duly noted. The same goes for if no one was liking Bogut, he didn't have friends on the team, he hated hip-hop, etc.

There just has to be more to the situation than we are aware of IMO.

First of all, I claim no inside info. Bogut not liking Mo is all speculation based on reading into quotes after Sessions took over late in the year, and the infamous Mo vs. Bogut rant where Mo apparently snapped on Bogut for no reason whatsoever (please, I'll take a transcript if someone has one). IF that is true (big if, though quite likely IMO) it would make sense for management to accommodate the guy they're hoping to hitch their wagon to.

The rest though is indisputable fact. Those things happened and can be proven in any number of ways.

And I agree, there is much that happened in the locker room, coaches office, and Kohl's boardroom last year that we don't know about. I suppose at this point, it doesn't really matter. That's the past. We kept who we kept, and that can't be changed.

Tomorrow is all about not falling 5 games under .500.

[tasball]

It is a pity Mo has gone and didn't play at least one season under Skiles.

[jerrod]

It is a pity Mo has gone and didn't play at least one season under Skiles.

that's what i thought. they finally brought in a competent coach and changed the front office so why not see exactly what you have in players before making a big move

[paulpressey25]

Remember, Larry K. is good buddies with Skiles. Mo was a thorn in Larry K's. side last year. I'm sure that was communicated clearly during the transition. Plus it wasn't too hard for Skiles (who watched all 82 games on video last May) to see that replacing Mo would be step one to trying to build a new defense here. The defensive mess started with Mo. It didn't end with Mo, but it started there.

Still even guys like me who wanted Mo sent packing acknowledged he'd thrive with LeBron. Mo is a perfect puzzle piece on teams with guys like Wade, LeBron and Kobe. That is his role. Superstar sidekick.

And none of Mo's faults should divert us from seeing the faults of the other two "cornerstones" who were allowed to stay in the form of Redd and Bogut.

[MickeyDavis]

"There is playing time (available) on this team," Skiles said. "It's up for grabs. We're trying to make clear to the guys that whoever wants to get with our program, defend, there's playing time to be had. If anybody wants to do that. We're searching."

Skiles admitted he was considering tinkering with lineups and rotations in an effort to improve the team defensively.

"We've got to find a way," Skiles said. "The issue is, though, even the guys I bring into the game (off the bench aren't much better). . . . It's not like there's a big contrast now."

[jeremyd236]

Great, now Lebron is going to drop like 50/15/15 because of Barkley's comments.

[DBeshore]

Oh noes, not BS.

What isn't true in that post.

Sessions = mentor? Fact.
Hugs? Fact.
Housing invites? Fact.
Mo Williams Show? Fact.

Self high-five? Fact.
Sinisia? Fact.
Hip-hop culture? Fact.

Just because you don't like hearing things, it doesn't make them untrue.

Come stronger. Please.

I'm having trouble following your logic. Could you let us know if Bogut disliked Mo both before and after Larry Harris gave Mo a $52 million contract?

Either way, just because you think something is a fact doesn't mean that the conclusions you make are accurate or true. In this instance, how does anything you have said prove that Bogut disliked Mo, and to the point that Hammond and Kohl traded Mo to keep Bogut happy? None of it proves that.

What's really funny is that in the same thread that you ridicule Europa's "Evil Mo Story", you later refer to it to support your belief that Bogut dislikes Mo. You say "IF that is true (big if, though quite likely IMO) it would make sense for management to accommodate the guy they're hoping to hitch their wagon to." Previous to this you have said that you have no inside information and that it's speculation. So I have to agree with the BS call, and I'll go along with PP and REDDzone.

[unklchuk]

Remember, Larry K. is good buddies with Skiles. Mo was a thorn in Larry K's. side last year. I'm sure that was communicated clearly during the transition. Plus it wasn't too hard for Skiles (who watched all 82 games on video last May) to see that replacing Mo would be step one to trying to build a new defense here. The defensive mess started with Mo. It didn't end with Mo, but it started there.

Still even guys like me who wanted Mo sent packing acknowledged he'd thrive with LeBron. Mo is a perfect puzzle piece on teams with guys like Wade, LeBron and Kobe. That is his role. Superstar sidekick.

A good description, I'd say.

As a sidekick, Mo will likely stay grounded. Without the superstar, on the Bucks, he got a little wild. Headstrong, didn't run the team offense (assuming Larry K had one). prime proponent of Apathy Defense.

Yes, it would have been interesting to see what Skiles and a year could have done with Mo. But Management seemed to think (rightly I believe) that they absolutely had to bring in a PG who would run the team offense. The Mo trade was probably the most decent of the offers they could find.

Mo Williams will never make the Obama Cabinet. He's not much of a thinker. And he plays the Thinking Position on the court. Factor that, please, into why he's no longer with our team.

[midranger]

Mo "thinks" enough to be the starting PG for the #1 offense in the NBA.

Perhaps thinking is overrated and being good at at basketball is underrated among basketball players.

I'd like to hear Luke Ridnour's "thoughts" on the subject.

[paulpressey25]

[He's not much of a thinker. And he plays the Thinking Position on the court. Factor that, please, into why he's no longer with our team.

I think that is a pretty good summation of it. The only problem I have is that I'm not sure Redd is much a thinker either. And while he doesn't play PG, he's been the face of the team the last five years. You only go as far as what your best players can provide and demand of others on the court.

Another dictum I've learned from the dialogue on this board and observations of the Bucks the last few years is that your highest paid player better also be one that the other guys respect immensely on the court. Otherwise that too will take its toll on team chemistry.

[jerrod]

the hysteria over that quote is so awesome. just so awesome

[midranger]

Didn't realize this, but elDude has both Mo and Lebron on his fantasy team that I'm facing this week. My team is injured to high hell, but I'm still close in several key categories. I need LRMAM and Ridnour to lock it down tonight.

[unklchuk]

"Mo "thinks" enough to be the starting PG for the #1 offense in the NBA."

I doubt you're saying that James doesn't dominate that team more than Williams. As PP said, as many of us have said, Williams is a good fit on that team. We expect him to do well. IMO, he's a good fit OFF our team. For the reasons discussed 14,745 times here.

"Perhaps thinking is overrated and being good at at basketball is underrated among basketball players."

Absolutely a possibility. That's one reason I push the subject here. Trying to find out for sure.

If someone has had too much of me (or my sense of "humor") all they have to do is convince me that it's an instinct and physical skills game - and not a thinking, team-smart game. I'll be gone like degrees of Fahrenheit in a Wisconsin Winter...

What I now think is that it's both. Head, heart, talent, team. It's those multiple byplays IMO that make it more interesting.

[paulpressey25]

""Perhaps thinking is overrated and being good at at basketball is underrated among basketball players.".

Joe Alexander may be a by-product of the excesses of the former regime in bringing in guys who have "skilz" but not much in the basketball brains or work ethic department. There is no question Alexander appears by all accounts to be a smart guy and really hard worker. We need(ed) more of those guys to help change the culture. But as we've debated, you can't have a team of Joe Alexander's and expect to win more than 10 games. Somewhere we've got to have a balance of talent and character.