ATL - New Lottery Rules Move to Owner Vote - pg59

[ReasonablySober]

If you call Crowder top 30 its overkill but he probably is in the top 5 contracts (non-rookie) in basketball. People saying he'd fail as best player... yep... so would Dray but where is GS without him and Iggy? They go b2b? Curry Durant Klay carry a ton but Dray and Iggy shouldn't be overlooked. If crowder wasn't on IT/Stevens team that surprised with the 1 seed the duscussion wouldnt be as bipolar. The people ranking him a bit too high are closer than the naysayers.

That's actually been the comparison rattling around my brain since the trade. He's gonna be their version of Draymond.

[Rockmaninoff]

Mills/Brogdon/Rose
Snell/Brogdon/Vaughn
Middleton/Crowder/Snell
Love/Crowder/Wilson/
Giannis/Maker/Wilson

? Yea, that team is in the Finals.

^
Gets it. Only question is how many consecutive years the team is playing in June until Silver bows to the tears of 29 butthurt owners and breaks the Bucks up through shady-ass "extra-judicial" means.

^ That's still Giannis and a bunch of 3rd options. It's a finals team in the mold of like the 2006 Cleveland Cavaliers, so really good regular season team that could potentially make the finals.

I'm also not sure we should roster build under the premise that Giannis needs to be our starting center, or that he needs to be all world offensively and defensively for it to work.

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[ReasonablySober]

Kevin Love's scored 26 ppg twice in his career. If he's your second option you're doing fine. Crowder scored 16 ppg per 36 with 40% behind the arc. Hell, you know Middleton can give you 18 a night. I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Rockmaninoff]

Kevin Love's scored 26 ppg twice in his career. If he's your second option you're doing fine. Crowder scored 16 ppg per 36 with 40% behind the arc. Hell, you know Middleton can give you 18 a night. I have no idea what you're talking about.

Kevin Love is a role player in the playoffs. Middleton has never done anything in the playoffs. Mills is a bit player in the playoffs. Crowder is role player, period.

Unless you're expecting Middleton to be much better in the playoffs, or Mills to have a much bigger role in the playoffs, I'm struggling to see who's creating offense in the playoffs beside Giannis. Then your expecting Giannis to be defensive fulcrum as well.

I said they would be a really good regular season team, but I don't see some sort of dynasty?

[ReasonablySober]

Kevin Love's scored 26 ppg twice in his career. If he's your second option you're doing fine. Crowder scored 16 ppg per 36 with 40% behind the arc. Hell, you know Middleton can give you 18 a night. I have no idea what you're talking about.

Kevin Love is a role player in the playoffs. Middleton has never done anything in the playoffs. Mills is a bit player in the playoffs. Crowder is role player, period.

Unless you're expecting Middleton to be much better in the playoffs, or Mills to have a much bigger role in the playoffs, I'm struggling to see who's creating offense in the playoffs beside Giannis. Then your expecting Giannis to be defensive fulcrum as well.

I said they would be a really good regular season team, but I don't see some sort of dynasty?

I don't draw a distinction between regular season in the playoffs.

[chonestown]

Mills/Brogdon/Rose
Snell/Brogdon/Vaughn
Middleton/Crowder/Snell
Love/Crowder/Wilson/
Giannis/Maker/Wilson

? Yea, that team is in the Finals.

Is Thibs the coach? Cause it looks like we're running an 8 man rotation year round

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NOPE. Thibs look like he had one or eight too many Grain Belts after a hard night of watching Andy Wiggins execute dose y doughs with the wings of the league. This is a situation that calls for charisma, out-the-box thinking and a defiance for domestic behavioral norms. THIS is a Jason Kidd team.

[raferfenix]

I could see the Bucks passing on a Middleton-based package for Irving being viewed similarly to the Warriors passing on Thompson for Love.

Middleton is a perfect compliment for Giannis and plays exactly the way the game is going.

He's been getting a lot of heat for closing out the season so poorly but he was coming off a serious injury. Middleton showed enough though before running out of gas to make us confidant he can come back better than ever.

Hoping for a monster season from him.

[chonestown]

Kevin Love's scored 26 ppg twice in his career. If he's your second option you're doing fine. Crowder scored 16 ppg per 36 with 40% behind the arc. Hell, you know Middleton can give you 18 a night. I have no idea what you're talking about.

Kevin Love is a role player in the playoffs. Middleton has never done anything in the playoffs. Mills is a bit player in the playoffs. Crowder is role player, period.

Unless you're expecting Middleton to be much better in the playoffs, or Mills to have a much bigger role in the playoffs, I'm struggling to see who's creating offense in the playoffs beside Giannis. Then your expecting Giannis to be defensive fulcrum as well.

I said they would be a really good regular season team, but I don't see some sort of dynasty?

I don't draw a distinction between regular season in the playoffs.

Hoop is hoop.

Two points in October = two points in May.

Mathematics is eternal.

[FlagsFlyForever]

Kevin Love's scored 26 ppg twice in his career. If he's your second option you're doing fine. Crowder scored 16 ppg per 36 with 40% behind the arc. Hell, you know Middleton can give you 18 a night. I have no idea what you're talking about.

Kevin Love is a role player in the playoffs. Middleton has never done anything in the playoffs. Mills is a bit player in the playoffs. Crowder is role player, period.

Unless you're expecting Middleton to be much better in the playoffs, or Mills to have a much bigger role in the playoffs, I'm struggling to see who's creating offense in the playoffs beside Giannis. Then your expecting Giannis to be defensive fulcrum as well.

I said they would be a really good regular season team, but I don't see some sort of dynasty?

I don't like that team because a Mills/Snell backcourt is very weak and Giannis should not be a full-time center. But a team with Giannis, Love, and Middleton is not going to have any trouble scoring.

[Rockmaninoff]

Kevin Love is a role player in the playoffs. Middleton has never done anything in the playoffs. Mills is a bit player in the playoffs. Crowder is role player, period.

Unless you're expecting Middleton to be much better in the playoffs, or Mills to have a much bigger role in the playoffs, I'm struggling to see who's creating offense in the playoffs beside Giannis. Then your expecting Giannis to be defensive fulcrum as well.

I said they would be a really good regular season team, but I don't see some sort of dynasty?

I don't draw a distinction between regular season in the playoffs.

Hoop is hoop.

Two points in October = two points in May.

Mathematics is eternal.

I guess I think there's more defensive intensity in the playoffs, so it's not the same as the regular season?

I'm not sure what mathematics has to do with anything. I have an economics degree, if that helps?

[chonestown]

I don't draw a distinction between regular season in the playoffs.

Hoop is hoop.

Two points in October = two points in May.

Mathematics is eternal.

I guess I think there's more defensive intensity in the playoffs, so it's not the same as the regular season?

I'm not sure what mathematics has to do with anything. I have an economics degree, if that helps?

Intensity is an artificial construct.

Meanwhile, ball goes through the hoop, points go on the board.

[Chapter29]

All the posters who said Middleton, Parker and a 1st was too much are salty as f.

It was too much. Ainge being dumb isn't relevant to that.

Ah yeah, way too much. Salty? No, I am just happy we ended up not part of that deal.

I wouldn't have given the supposed offer of Mids/Brogdon/1st. Nope.

Boston needed a star in the worst way. They got one...though be it a little farther down the star list. But much more so than IT is.

Kind of weird for me to think about this trade as I don't think as highly about IT or Kyrie as perhaps other do. Don't like either to be honest. Not as a top dog that is for sure for sure. If either of these guys are your best player, you may not be all that good.

Boston is in a weird place where they were able to win quite a bit more than I would have thought using depth and chemistry. Now they forgo those things and go for star power in Kyrie and GH. Will be interesting to see how that works out.

Boston won the trade. Yes, they gave up a big time first rounder, but they don't "need" it. They have more coming, granted not perhaps as good. For me, I will always do a many for one trade. In Basketball talent wins. Take 2 6's and turn them into 1 8,9 or 10 level player? Done deal.

Cleveland with a pint size aging PG who is about to get paid isn't all that attractive to me. They saved their asses with this trade when Lebron leaves and IT is either way overpaid or let go, they will need that top pick. They look to be a worse team to me. Kyrie is better than IT and talent wins in the NBA. JC wont make up that difference I fear. You need a core of superstar talent to get to the finals. I don't see LJ, IT and Love getting that done. Even as great as Lebron is.

Boston will have a better team than Cleveland I am guessing for years to come.

Now...how in the hell do we catch Boston and GS? Next offseason will make or break us on that front.

[Rainwater]

Crowder is the 4th best player on his team - No way he is top 30

He was no worse than the 2nd best on the #1 seed in the East last season.

Even if this statement was true, which in my opinion it is not, is it really saying much? Other then IT nobody else could really create on that Celtics team. Their only real offensive threat was IT hence why the Hayward signing was necessary.

[ReasonablySober]

Crowder is the 4th best player on his team - No way he is top 30

He was no worse than the 2nd best on the #1 seed in the East last season.

Even if this statement was true, which in my opinion it is not, is it really saying much? Other then IT nobody else could really create on that Celtics team. Their only real offensive threat was IT hence why the Hayward signing was necessary.

There's more to basketball than creating, or whatever.

[AussieBuck]

I am not, however with how some are falling over themselves on Cleveland getting Crowder and IT you would think they would.

So it's never gonna happen in the ECF now. Great....if Cleveland doesn't make the Finals, no excuses for Lebron is all I ask.

Basketball is a team game. How can we agree to make "no excuses" for LeBron before the season even starts? We will watch the games and then assign fault and credit accordingly. For example, what if IT and Love play poorly or get injured? Certainly that is not LeBron's fault and citing such a reason for Cleveland's elimination would not be an "excuse for LeBron". You using the word "excuses" implies that you believe people are unfairly attempting to avoid placing blame on LeBron for the Cavs losing the 2017 & 2015 Finals. As if you believe he should've done better than 34.8 ppg, 12.7 rpg, 9.4 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.7 bpg with a 53.4 TS% (which is what he averaged during the 11 Finals games in 2017 & 2015).

Michael Jordan wouldn't have been able to get past these Warriors. It's ridiculous to hold the fact that LeBron's Cavs are playing during the same time as arguably the greatest dynasty of all time. LeBron would not be any greater if he was currently coming off his third straight championship in a world where Golden State doesn't exist.

I have seen a lot of people who blamed Lebron's losing on Irving but gave him very little credit for their wins. Those same people then tried to tell me Middleton was better than or equal to Kyrie. Now they are saying Cleveland won the trade and some even saying Crowder alone is a better player than Kyrie with IT being a better pure scorer.

Fast forward to the 2017-18 playoffs. The Cavs are relatively healthy (Crowder, Love, IT, and Lebron) and they lose in the East not even making it to the Finals. Or get swept in the Finals, which they didn't do this year. I don't want to hear from those same people, "Well, that's what happens when you trade away Kyrie, Lebron just needs more help."

Cavs won the trade by getting the Nets pick

[Plossum]

Crowder's has a strong offensive impact because he shoots threes at a good clip. When he camps in that corner, defenders have to respect him and not give him open looks which opens the game up for guys like IT. He isn't some amazing force you could dump the ball to and say 'get me a bucket' but he's a dude that opens up a lot of good looks for other players.

If you suddenly made him your primary option his numbers would likely dive as it's a role he's just not good at and it plays away from his strength which is playing without the ball and creating space/knocking down open threes. He's a really good role player, particularly in the pace and space era but I wouldn't be super keen on asking him to do more.

[Licensed to Il]

Kevin Love is a role player in the playoffs. Middleton has never done anything in the playoffs. Mills is a bit player in the playoffs. Crowder is role player, period.

Unless you're expecting Middleton to be much better in the playoffs, or Mills to have a much bigger role in the playoffs, I'm struggling to see who's creating offense in the playoffs beside Giannis. Then your expecting Giannis to be defensive fulcrum as well.

I said they would be a really good regular season team, but I don't see some sort of dynasty?

I don't draw a distinction between regular season in the playoffs.

Hoop is hoop.

Two points in October = two points in May.

Mathematics is eternal.

There are a number of fairly clear differences between regular season and playoff games:

- Shorter playoff rotations means more minutes to better lineups
- Most playoff coaches choose to send an extra guy guy back as a shot is attempted, making defensive rebounding (theoretically) easier and transition buckets more difficult
- Players unquestionably play harder
- Coaches game plan and players practice for much more specific situations

Not sure if you were even being serious

[ReasonablySober]

Crowder's has a strong offensive impact because he shoots threes at a good clip. When he camps in that corner, defenders have to respect him and not give him open looks which opens the game up for guys like IT. He isn't some amazing force you could dump the ball to and say 'get me a bucket' but he's a dude that opens up a lot of good looks for other players.

If you suddenly made him your primary option his numbers would likely dive as it's a role he's just not good at and it plays away from his strength which is playing without the ball and creating space/knocking down open threes. He's a really good role player, particularly in the pace and space era but I wouldn't be super keen on asking him to do more.

No one is saying otherwise.

[Rainwater]

He was no worse than the 2nd best on the #1 seed in the East last season.

Even if this statement was true, which in my opinion it is not, is it really saying much? Other then IT nobody else could really create on that Celtics team. Their only real offensive threat was IT hence why the Hayward signing was necessary.

There's more to basketball than creating, or whatever.

And being a good 3D player or "whatever" doesn't make you a top 30 player.

[ReasonablySober]

Even if this statement was true, which in my opinion it is not, is it really saying much? Other then IT nobody else could really create on that Celtics team. Their only real offensive threat was IT hence why the Hayward signing was necessary.

There's more to basketball than creating, or whatever.

And being a good 3D player or "whatever" doesn't make you top 30 player.

Is Rudy Gobert a top 30 player? He isn't creating ****.