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PG Indy - AG and BP respond to Haynes report, page 20

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Re: PG Indy - Doris and Reggie Love it, LOVE IT 

Post#221 » by CharityStripe34 » Fri Dec 8, 2023 1:58 pm

German Athens wrote:Does anyone check the nba play type data frequently?

I check it after about every game to see which play types are trending up or down, and I’m a bit confused about the Giannis pick n roll data right now. It says he hasn’t taken an attempt as the roller in the past two games, maybe even the past three, but i remember multiple from the Knicks game. I think our opening bucket that game was Giannis finishing as the roller.

What am I missing?


There were multiple times where he screened for Dame last night where Dame couldn't find him. Once in the second half he tried but it was tipped and stolen. Dame was just really off/sluggish last night. I also wonder why the hell we don't run high/low with Gianni & Brook more often. Especially against smaller teams like Indiana? Seems like whenever the Bucks get good action down low, opposing teams double/scramble and it opens up very easy and open shots.
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Re: PG Indy - Doris and Reggie Love it, LOVE IT 

Post#222 » by German Athens » Fri Dec 8, 2023 2:00 pm

We need to have a secondary action to free up someone when Dame calls for a screen.

He’s getting blitzed on screens all year, and the only way we’ve been able to take advantage is by getting it to the roller, but that window hasn’t always been huge.

There needs to be a second action to take advantage.
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Re: PG Indy - Doris and Reggie Love it, LOVE IT 

Post#223 » by German Athens » Fri Dec 8, 2023 2:06 pm

Also, we should be doing Spain pick n rolls more often.
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Re: PG Indy - Doris and Reggie Love it, LOVE IT 

Post#224 » by Ron Swanson » Fri Dec 8, 2023 2:15 pm

Well, silver lining is that we at least don't have to play a meaningless exhibition on game on Saturday.

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Re: PG Indy - Doris and Reggie Love it, LOVE IT 

Post#225 » by fan230 » Fri Dec 8, 2023 2:15 pm

Yesterday Indiana pretty much outplayed the Bucks while Indiana barely beat the Celtics.

Our defense continues to be poor game after game.

Barring Giannis, our offense was out of sync in more ways than one yesterday.

Pacers are a talented team; we were outplayed.

We may win many games in a row against weaker times. But if we struggle against good teams, that is not a good sign.

Are we planning to use the whole season as an adjustment period? It has been a while and the defense has not improved. It is crucial for the Bucks to try to win a championship this year, not sometime in the future. That is the crux of the situation.
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Re: PG Indy - Doris and Reggie Love it, LOVE IT 

Post#226 » by JimmyTheKid » Fri Dec 8, 2023 2:15 pm

Adrian Griffin is annoying, part 21.

I'm done talking about AJJ's inexcusable lack of a role in every post game thread. If he's hurt why play him even a minute. If he's not, get him on the f***ing floor. Oops there I go again.

The defense being a complete and utter dumpster fire, with no real effort to fix in sight, was laughably exposed when Griffin decided his base would be 2-3 zone against the Pacers last night. You have to be f***ing kidding me.

Not sure if anyone has posted Nehm's latest from The Athletic:

https://theathletic.com/5100682/2023/12/07/giannis-dame-bucks-pick-and-roll/?access_token=6070272#

Overall a fantastic article. He basically suggests that the Bucks should be spamming the Dame/Giannis pick and role and haven't to this point with any regularity despite the early returns being off the charts. Griffin's response is comedy gold. So this is now a head coach who thought Brook and Bobby defending 30 feet from the rim was a good idea until the team had to tell him it wasn't. And offensively he doesn't want to spam the pick and role with two of the best offensive players of all time because "reasons." Tough start for this guy.

During Adrian Griffin’s first year in Milwaukee, the Bucks have not emphasized the Antetokounmpo-Lillard pick-and-roll in the way many expected heading into the season. That has not been the base of the Bucks’ offense. Rather than build their offense around that connection, Griffin has tried to assemble an offensive game plan that includes as many of the players as possible.

“I think you want to be a well-balanced team as well because we do have other weapons,” Griffin told The Athletic on Nov. 30 before the Bucks played the Chicago Bulls, when asked why the Bucks haven’t heavily emphasized the Antetokounmpo-Lillard pick-and-roll combination. “I know Dame and Giannis get a lot of the attention — and rightly so — but you want to have somewhat of a free-flowing offense at times, where the ball doesn’t get stagnant.

“But the go-to is definitely going to be the pick-and-rolls. When we need a basket, you’re going to put those two in action. You’re going to put Khris in there too. But it’s always five men on the offensive end as well. So, you know I’m a big believer in getting some movement, but get the ball back into the hands of the guys like Dame and Giannis that know what to do with it.”


And while Griffin talked about leaning on that pick-and-roll combination as a go-to play before the game, that just hasn’t been the case in most games thus far this season. For example, just a few hours after speaking with The Athletic, the Bucks ran an Antetokounmpo-Lillard pick-and-roll twice in the final five minutes of regulation as the Bucks tried to make a comeback against the Bulls that night and then only once in the five-minute overtime period.

“Just figuring out the dynamics, it just takes time. It’s gradually going up,” Griffin said. “I think, [in] the last two games, we have the highest pick-and-roll frequency for our team and Dame and Giannis. I knew it was going to take a little bit of time. And that’s all it is, building the chemistry with each other. I think, on my part, it’s just if if I need to call plays to kind of manufacture a little bit more, but they’re learning, in the flow of the game, to play off each other, and I think that’s the biggest thing.“
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Re: PG Indy - Doris and Reggie Love it, LOVE IT 

Post#227 » by BucksRule18 » Fri Dec 8, 2023 2:20 pm

I honestly think the in-season tournament should be moved to February next year. The reason I say this is because most of the championship caliber teams (not saying the Bucks are at this point) are not playing their best basketball in December. It's usually the try hard younger teams (or a motivated Lebron) playing well early, and then fading away as soon as the top teams get their %#$^ together. It's sort of like the Bulls having the best record in the Eastern conference a couple of years ago. No one expected them to be contenders come playoff time.
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Re: PG Indy - Doris and Reggie Love it, LOVE IT 

Post#228 » by Ron Swanson » Fri Dec 8, 2023 2:25 pm

There's some level of karma here now that this board can finally see what it's like to have a head coach who actually doesn't make "adjustments" (or at least logical ones within the flow of the game). But at the end of the day, I'm a Bucks fan more than a "I told you so" fan so yeah....this sucks.

I get that Pat and Crowder are still out, but I thought Marjon played pretty well, and if there was ever a game where you needed to go small to close it out, it was this one. Chalk Indy up as another potential postseason matchup where Bobby looks unplayable. Not great, Bob.
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Re: PG Indy - Doris and Reggie Love it, LOVE IT 

Post#229 » by MiltownHawkeye » Fri Dec 8, 2023 2:25 pm

PG Graveyard wrote:
StickeeFingaz wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:Simmons pod with Wos and Mahoney asking why Giannis won’t go in the huddle during timeouts. They were in the arena. Said body language obvious and not good.

Discussed spacing bad and referenced Stotts firing. And why Giannis struggling with fitting in with Dame.


Giannis does that all the time, there’s nothing there.


Lol noted body language expert Bill Simmons.

Also hard to say Giannis is struggling with Dame when he’s shooting like 62 percent from the field and going for a 30/10/5 stat line that literally only Wilt has done.

Also are people going to do the fire Griff after every loss? Can we at least wait for a 3 game losing streak?

He's making us look way worse than our talent level and there have been multiple signs he's losing the locker room. But if we don't go on any 3-game losing streaks we're fine?

Maybe I'll just start doing what tydett is doing and stating that we need to fire Griff even after wins. Shooting 60% from 3 against early-round playoff fodder and playing close games against the worst teams in the league shouldn't be changing people's minds on his coaching ability.
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Re: PG Indy - Doris and Reggie Love it, LOVE IT 

Post#230 » by buckboy » Fri Dec 8, 2023 2:32 pm

"I wish Rick Carlisle was our coach" was all I kept thinking last night.
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Re: PG Indy - Doris and Reggie Love it, LOVE IT 

Post#231 » by BucksRule18 » Fri Dec 8, 2023 2:32 pm

MiltownHawkeye wrote:
PG Graveyard wrote:
StickeeFingaz wrote:
Giannis does that all the time, there’s nothing there.


Lol noted body language expert Bill Simmons.

Also hard to say Giannis is struggling with Dame when he’s shooting like 62 percent from the field and going for a 30/10/5 stat line that literally only Wilt has done.

Also are people going to do the fire Griff after every loss? Can we at least wait for a 3 game losing streak?

He's making us look way worse than our talent level and there have been multiple signs he's losing the locker room. But if we don't go on any 3-game losing streaks we're fine?

Maybe I'll just start doing what tydett is doing and stating that we need to fire Griff even after wins. Shooting 60% from 3 against early-round playoff fodder and playing close games against the worst teams in the league shouldn't be changing people's minds on his coaching ability.


It may come down to what the players want. If they come to a point where they want Griffin out, it may not take a lot to take their foot of the gas pedal the last 5 minutes of a game and subsequently lose 3 or 4 straight.
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Re: PG Indy - Doris and Reggie Love it, LOVE IT 

Post#232 » by Siefer » Fri Dec 8, 2023 2:35 pm

Listening to KOC and Vernon kill the coaching again. Jackson's lack of defined role, Stotts, the ball pressure scheme, Beasley at the point of attack, the lack of PNRs and DHOs even with elite personnel. Giannis and Dame just not impacting the 4th much.

I'll add another one - I think Griffin is screwing up Giannis's late game minutes, often having him play most or all of the 4th. Giannis is running out of gas late, especially in high pace games, and I think a big part of it is he needs his coach to find him more rest in the 4th.

Bobby's not playing well at all, but I'm going to defend him a bit here. He's a guy that's as good as his structure, and to his credit, I think he knows it. The trapping and heavy switching has him not knowing where he's going to be relative to the basket, and it's dragging on his rebounding. Most of his offense is iso ball this year, and he never seems to be part of a flow. Some of this is on him, but he also just doesn't seem comfortable out there.
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Re: PG Indy - Doris and Reggie Love it, LOVE IT 

Post#233 » by MiltownHawkeye » Fri Dec 8, 2023 2:40 pm

BucksRule18 wrote:
MiltownHawkeye wrote:
PG Graveyard wrote:
Lol noted body language expert Bill Simmons.

Also hard to say Giannis is struggling with Dame when he’s shooting like 62 percent from the field and going for a 30/10/5 stat line that literally only Wilt has done.

Also are people going to do the fire Griff after every loss? Can we at least wait for a 3 game losing streak?

He's making us look way worse than our talent level and there have been multiple signs he's losing the locker room. But if we don't go on any 3-game losing streaks we're fine?

Maybe I'll just start doing what tydett is doing and stating that we need to fire Griff even after wins. Shooting 60% from 3 against early-round playoff fodder and playing close games against the worst teams in the league shouldn't be changing people's minds on his coaching ability.


It may come down to what the players want. If they come to a point where they want Griffin out, it may not take a lot to take their foot of the gas pedal the last 5 minutes of a game and subsequently lose 3 or 4 straight.

I would hope in that case our players would just go up to Horst and say "fire this dude" instead of tanking games but I see what you're saying.

I'm not the type of person who listens to post-game pressers very often so honest question: have any of the players been particularly effusive about Griffin?
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Re: PG Indy - Doris and Reggie Love it, LOVE IT 

Post#234 » by JimmyTheKid » Fri Dec 8, 2023 2:46 pm

Siefer wrote:Listening to KOC and Vernon kill the coaching again. Jackson's lack of defined role, Stotts, the ball pressure scheme, Beasley at the point of attack, the lack of PNRs and DHOs even with elite personnel. Giannis and Dame just not impacting the 4th much.

I'll add another one - I think Griffin is screwing up Giannis's late game minutes, often having him play most of all of the 4th. Giannis is running out of gas late, especially in high pace games, and I think a big part of it is he needs his coach to find him more rest in the 4th.

Bobby's not playing well at all, but I'm going to defend him a bit here. He's a guy that's as good as his structure, and to his credit, I think he knows it. The trapping and heavy switching has him not knowing where he's going to be relative to the basket, and it's dragging on his rebounding. Most of his offense is iso ball this year, and he never seems to be part of a flow. Some of this is on him, but he also just doesn't seem comfortable out there.


For me the biggest thing here, again, is just find out if he can be the guy. Right now while Pat and Jae are out. We might not have to trade assets to get a guy if we already have a guy. But this 1 minute, 3 minute, garbage time cleanup duty bullsh*t won't tell you anything. If you're experimenting with Brook guarding in space on the perimeter, and Khris/Malik initiating instead of Dame, then it shouldn't be too much to ask to find out what you have in a guy, who upon first look, can make life easier on both ends.
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Re: PG Indy - Doris and Reggie Love it, LOVE IT 

Post#235 » by buckboy » Fri Dec 8, 2023 2:51 pm

MissKhriddleton wrote:I regret my bets.


Same. At least I took the Lakers so it didn't hurt too bad.
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Re: PG Indy - Doris and Reggie Love it, LOVE IT 

Post#236 » by Ron Swanson » Fri Dec 8, 2023 2:51 pm

Lost in all the team lethargy/Griff hubbub though, I think we need to credit and appreciate just how incredible Haliburton has become. We didn't fumble that game. Haliburton won it because he's basically become prime Steve Nash with a better ISO scoring game. Crazy.

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Re: PG Indy - Doris and Reggie Love it, LOVE IT 

Post#237 » by PG Graveyard » Fri Dec 8, 2023 2:53 pm

I’m not sure complaining about the zone defense when that’s the thing that got us back into the game is the right complaint. Maybe Ajax not playing or the late game execution but those are really nitpicky all things considered. Our bench is getting decimated every night. Now that we are beyond the IST I would hope Griff can be a little more flexible with the young guys to see if they can help us more. It’s a long year and we are 15-7 and not even close to being full throttle.
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Re: PG Indy - Doris and Reggie Love it, LOVE IT 

Post#238 » by buckboy » Fri Dec 8, 2023 2:54 pm

Also, Marjon is trash and should be traded for anything they can get before he loses all value.

I'd take a future 2nd easily.
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Re: PG Indy - Doris and Reggie Love it, LOVE IT 

Post#239 » by MiltownHawkeye » Fri Dec 8, 2023 2:56 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:Lost in all the team lethargy/Griff hubbub though, I think we need to credit and appreciate just how incredible Haliburton has become. We didn't fumble that game. Haliburton won it because he's basically become prime Steve Nash with a better ISO scoring game. Crazy.

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Agreed this is why I wanted to make sure the first post I made in this thread was praising him because we need to give credit where credit is due. There might be some hype backlash coming but he's looking like a generational player and sometimes those dudes just beat you.
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Re: PG Indy - Doris and Reggie Love it, LOVE IT 

Post#240 » by CharityStripe34 » Fri Dec 8, 2023 2:56 pm

As much as we call out Gianni for ball-watching, sometimes rightfully so, Dame is a horrible off-ball player if he's not involved in the primary action. I noticed a couple of times last night when Khris/Freak were running a side pick-and-roll, Dame sort of drifted into their area bringing an extra defender and blowing it up.

Reading those tidbits from that article, I'm not entirely opposed with the basic notion that Griffin wants everyone involved, but it shouldn't come at the expense of the two greatest weapons we have. Funny enough, sometimes it seems like they're really playing random on offense. Whodathunk?
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