Trade Targets (postcript on yesterday-other teams)

[raferfenix]

Considering what Rondo was just traded for, I don't think the Nuggets are getting a Holiday-level score for Lawson.

That said yes I can certainly see him going for significantly more than what some of us are talking about.

What do we think about Knight going to the Nuggets -- or Kings?

[The Rebel]

What if the the Kings are just cut out?

Middleton / LAC pick / Dudley for Lawson.

Bucks absorb some salary to save Denver money. Works in trade machine.

Why would the Nuggets do that?


From reading this entire thread, it seems that your 2 sources are giving the Bucks offer, not the deal that the Nuggets want, yet you guys think it will be less than that?

This really underrates Lawson. hell Jrue Holiday was traded for 2 good lottery picks 2 years ago, and Lawson is a clearly better player than him. I know that the Pelicans overpaid, but not by that much, and the Nuggets are not just going to give Lawson away if they even trade him.

What about Lawson/Nurkic for Knight, Henson, Middleton & the LAC pick?

As I said in a previous post I doubt they would even give up Nurkic for Alphabet man, they are very high on Nurkic, and watching him actually on the court they have every reason to be that high on him.

Considering what Rondo was just traded for, I don't think the Nuggets are getting a Holiday-level score for Lawson.

That said yes I can certainly see him going for significantly more than what some of us are talking about.

What do we think about Knight going to the Nuggets -- or Kings?

I would not trade Lawson for Rondo straight up right now, and the fact is prior to the trade Rondo was half assing it on offense and defense, similar to the way Vince Carter did his last couple of years on the Raptors (and we know how much he brought back). To top it off Rondo has always been rumored to be a locker room problem and was shopped for years. Rondo is not the same since his injury issues, even when he is trying, and playing like he did the last couple of years in Boston he did not look like much of a prize in trade.

Lawson maybe having his shooting percentages go down as he is asked to be a 1st option, but his passing and shot creation has went through the roof, creating over 20 assist opportunities a game which is 3 higher than anybody in the league. He still struggles on defense, but his defense has even been better recently with a capable center in the middle. I doubt the Nuggets give up Lawson for less than Rondo brought back, in fact I think if he gets moved it will be for a considerably better package. Lawson is also very much a team 1st guy, who does not want to be the biggest name, he just wants to win games.

[jakecronus8]

As I said before, if we get Stauskas and Lawson without giving up JP, GA or our first this year I bow down to the new regime. Literally any other combo of assets.

Why would Denver give up clearly the best player in the deal and arguably the 2nd best player in the deal and not get back the best prospect?

I am not here to insult you guys and I like Henson, but at best he is going to be a slightly better on offense and slightly worse on defense version of Marcus Camby, who while good was never a great player. Middleton is a good shooter but is never going to be better than a 4th or 5th starter. A heavily protected 1st is also not all that valuable since the Clippers still have a ton of talent on their roster.

The only way this deal makes any sense for the Nuggets is if they are getting pieces around Nurkic that they believe can be long term fits around him, or valuable trade pieces down the road. Stauskas right now is the best prospect out of the bunch, if you believe he can be a long term starter, which looking at his number the predraft skeptics may have been right in that he is a bust, which limits his value, but he looks like he could be the only future prospect with a chance to be special.

I'm going off the rumor that Denver likes Middleton more than Stauskas. Not saying it's likely. Just saying if it happened I'd worship at the church of LED.

Eta: I truly believe if any scenario where we got Lawson came to fruition, that Knight would be going out. I don't think we'd play them together, and value wise he has the most outside of our untouchables.

[raferfenix]

Also -- completely aside from the Nuggets -- if the Kings are actually willing to give up positive value for Ersan I sure hope we get a deal done.

Ilyasova was looking a whole lot better right before he went down. But for whatever reason we just have not been able to rely on him for seasons now, and with Parker's ACL we particularly can't afford to have our backup PF be so unreliable.

[The Rebel]

If a deal gets done according to what your insiders are saying I could see it being something similar to
Nuggets out Lawson, Afflalo
in Stuaskas, Middleton, Thompson, Clippers pick

Bucks out Middleton, Henson, Illysova, Clippers pick
In Lawson, Afflalo, Casspi

Kings out Stauskas, Casspi, Thomspon
In Henson, Illysova

I could also see the Nuggets trying to get the Kings to include Sessions as a place holder at backup PG as well.

[paulpressey25]

This really underrates Lawson. hell Jrue Holiday was traded for 2 good lottery picks 2 years ago, and Lawson is a clearly better player than him. I know that the Pelicans overpaid, but not by that much, and the Nuggets are not just going to give Lawson away if they even trade him.

You're doing a good sales job and appreciate the participation in the thread. I agree that Lawson is better than Holiday and Rondo. Frankly I like him better than Lowry as well. He'd be a fan favorite and is a legit third option on a good team.

What would you take for just Lawson?

[mlloyd10]

If a deal gets done according to what your insiders are saying I could see it being something similar to
Nuggets out Lawson, Afflalo
in Stuaskas, Middleton, Thompson, Clippers pick

Bucks out Middleton, Henson, Illysova, Clippers pick
In Lawson, Afflalo, Casspi

Kings out Stauskas, Casspi, Thomspon
In Henson, Illysova

I could also see the Nuggets trying to get the Kings to include Sessions as a place holder at backup PG as well.

Wouldn't the nuggets want Henson over Thompson?

[jakecronus8]

I'd love to see Knight, Middleton, Clips 1st for Lawson, and Ersan, 2nd for Stauskas and a bad contract.

Eta: Henson would go to someone in those deals.

[tski1972]

why Afflalo?

and I'm serious.

[raferfenix]

The only way this deal makes any sense for the Nuggets is if they are getting pieces around Nurkic that they believe can be long term fits around him, or valuable trade pieces down the road.

Not sure what you'd be looking for around Nurkic or how you view Knight in relation to Lawson --- but I remember a Kings poster (maybe you) referring to Denver wanting more of a scoring PG.

Do you think Knight could be viewed as a better fit long term than Lawson?

If Knight is a main piece for the Nuggets to receive that might also jive with how "the Nuggets ownership and management have an outright moral objection" to tanking.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-bas ... he-horizon

THE DENVER CONUNDRUM

Last week the media met with Nuggets GM Tim Connelly following the trade of Timofey Mozgov to Cleveland, hoping to get some clarification on whether the Nuggets were clearing their stacked cap as the playoffs slip away, or if this was a half-measure, and the team would continue pushing for the 8th seed.

Things only got more confusing. While acknowledging that there's a point where the team has to look to the future and deal with the reality of their "disappointing" situation in the standings, the team is unlikely (a near lock to not) tank, and will continue to hope for the situation to improve. And in keeping with Denver's completely bi-polar season, the Nuggets have rattled off four straight wins.

The Nuggets are hopeful they can make a run, but are clearly open for business, with wings Afflalo and Wilson Chandler the most available and best targets.

Denver's biggest issue is that they have a bit of a domino effect looming. Moving Timofey Mozgov meant that Jusef Nurkic gets more minutes, along with veteran J.J. Hickson. But moving Afflalo or Chandler means there's little reason to keep the other one, and more reason to find playing time for rookie Gary Harris.

And if you're playing two rookies... why keep Ty Lawson? And if you move near-All-Star Ty Lawson, why keep Kenneth Faried? And then you're tanking, which the Nuggets ownership and management have an outright moral objection to.

This is the position they're stuck in. Denver can't get worse but it's also possible that they can't improve with a trade.

[The Rebel]

If a deal gets done according to what your insiders are saying I could see it being something similar to
Nuggets out Lawson, Afflalo
in Stuaskas, Middleton, Thompson, Clippers pick

Bucks out Middleton, Henson, Illysova, Clippers pick
In Lawson, Afflalo, Casspi

Kings out Stauskas, Casspi, Thomspon
In Henson, Illysova

I could also see the Nuggets trying to get the Kings to include Sessions as a place holder at backup PG as well.

Wouldn't the nuggets want Henson over Thompson?

I think they would rather have the pick and the Kings are going to have to get something for Stauskas. You see the Nuggets reportedly now want to keep Faried and Nurkic believing they fit long term together, and they still have Jokic and Lauvergne (sp?) overseas who they are very high on, and want to bring over next year which will give them 4 young bigs that they like. Meaning Thompson is just a placeholder for now, that the Nuggets can trade later for a minor asset, while the Clippers pick in a couple of years could help supplement the team long term.

They may take Henson with the idea that they will trade him later for a good pick, but I think Henson fits what the Kings are looking for in a trade for Stauskas.

This really underrates Lawson. hell Jrue Holiday was traded for 2 good lottery picks 2 years ago, and Lawson is a clearly better player than him. I know that the Pelicans overpaid, but not by that much, and the Nuggets are not just going to give Lawson away if they even trade him.

You're doing a good sales job and appreciate the participation in the thread. I agree that Lawson is better than Holiday and Rondo. Frankly I like him better than Lowry as well. He'd be a fan favorite and is a legit third option on a good team.

What would you take for just Lawson?

I would probably do something like Henson, Middleton, and a top 5 protected 2015 Bucks pick for Lawson, but I am not actually as high on Lawson as most Nuggets fans are.

[Dcebucks11]

Why do people want lawson so bad? he's like 7 years older than jabari and giannis and has had knee problems in the recent past, plus it gives the bucks one of the shortest back courts in the nba if not the shortest.. no interest in giving value up

i'd be more interested in stauskas

[EastSideBucksFan]

Why do people want lawson so bad? he's like 7 years older than jabari and giannis and has had knee problems in the recent past, plus it gives the bucks one of the shortest back courts in the nba if not the shortest.. no interest in giving value up

i'd be more interested in stauskas

Everybody doesn't need to be the same age.

See: New Jersey Nets with 26-28 year old Kidd taking two high flying rookies (RJ & Kenyon) to the finals two years in a row.

[The Rebel]

The only way this deal makes any sense for the Nuggets is if they are getting pieces around Nurkic that they believe can be long term fits around him, or valuable trade pieces down the road.

Not sure what you'd be looking for around Nurkic or how you view Knight in relation to Lawson --- but I remember a Kings poster (maybe you) referring to Denver wanting more of a scoring PG.

Do you think Knight could be viewed as a better fit long term than Lawson?

If Knight is a main piece for the Nuggets to receive that might also jive with how "the Nuggets ownership and management have an outright moral objection" to tanking.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-bas ... he-horizon

THE DENVER CONUNDRUM

Last week the media met with Nuggets GM Tim Connelly following the trade of Timofey Mozgov to Cleveland, hoping to get some clarification on whether the Nuggets were clearing their stacked cap as the playoffs slip away, or if this was a half-measure, and the team would continue pushing for the 8th seed.

Things only got more confusing. While acknowledging that there's a point where the team has to look to the future and deal with the reality of their "disappointing" situation in the standings, the team is unlikely (a near lock to not) tank, and will continue to hope for the situation to improve. And in keeping with Denver's completely bi-polar season, the Nuggets have rattled off four straight wins.

The Nuggets are hopeful they can make a run, but are clearly open for business, with wings Afflalo and Wilson Chandler the most available and best targets.

Denver's biggest issue is that they have a bit of a domino effect looming. Moving Timofey Mozgov meant that Jusef Nurkic gets more minutes, along with veteran J.J. Hickson. But moving Afflalo or Chandler means there's little reason to keep the other one, and more reason to find playing time for rookie Gary Harris.

And if you're playing two rookies... why keep Ty Lawson? And if you move near-All-Star Ty Lawson, why keep Kenneth Faried? And then you're tanking, which the Nuggets ownership and management have an outright moral objection to.

This is the position they're stuck in. Denver can't get worse but it's also possible that they can't improve with a trade.

I am a Nuggets poster, but yes it was me that said the GM likes scoring PGs, the problem with Knight is that he is not a good fit around a true big man center, which is one of the reasons the Nuggets just traded Nate Robinson for Nelson. Nelson or a Mo Williams type PG that can hit 3s and make an entry pass into the post seem to be the types they are going to want.

I see them wanting a 3 point shooter that they believe can turn into a d-3 type guy, which explains their interest in Middleton. I can see them wanting a SG that can create occasionally and hit outside shots, which would explain Stuaskas, a backup big with a midrange jumper, and as I said an outside shooting PG. they also want picks for future trade assets.

With the deal I proposed the Nuggets future core would look like
Nelson/ Sessions/ Green (until they find a young PG they like in trade or free agent)
Stauskas/ Harris
Gallo/ Middleton/
Faried/ Lauvergne/
Nurkic/ Jokic

Plus the Clippers pick, the OKC pick, the Memphis pick, the option to swap picks with the Knicks pick in 2016, and all their future 1st round picks.

If Nurkic turns out to be as good as they hope, one of Harris or Stauskas turn out to be the player the draft experts thought they would, the bigs from Europe turn out good (Jokic is considered the top big in the Adriatic league) and Gallo is nearly as good as he was prior to the ACL, that team can make some noise long term in the league. If not then they have a ton of draft picks and cap space to make moves.

[raferfenix]

I would probably do something like Henson, Middleton, and a top 5 protected 2015 Bucks pick for Lawson, but I am not actually as high on Lawson as most Nuggets fans are.

If a deal gets done according to what your insiders are saying I could see it being something similar to
Nuggets out Lawson, Afflalo
in Stuaskas, Middleton, Thompson, Clippers pick

Bucks out Middleton, Henson, Illysova, Clippers pick
In Lawson, Afflalo, Casspi

Kings out Stauskas, Casspi, Thomspon
In Henson, Illysova

I could also see the Nuggets trying to get the Kings to include Sessions as a place holder at backup PG as well.

Appreciate you engaging like this! Very interested in your perspective on Lawson in particular.

Looking at the scenarios you have suggested, I'd badly hope the Bucks could pull something off without trading our 2015 pick. In these deals it seems like you're equating our top 5 protected 2015 pick to be worth Stauskas + the LAC pick, which is interesting to think about.

I also don't see why the Bucks would be giving up much added value for Afflalo. I'd rather keep Middleton since he at least seems more likely to resign here.

[Dcebucks11]

Why do people want lawson so bad? he's like 7 years older than jabari and giannis and has had knee problems in the recent past, plus it gives the bucks one of the shortest back courts in the nba if not the shortest.. no interest in giving value up

i'd be more interested in stauskas

Everybody doesn't need to be the same age.

See: New Jersey Nets with 26-28 year old Kidd taking two high flying rookies (RJ & Kenyon) to the finals two years in a row.

could you really see a knight - lawson backcourt leading this team to the finals?

[EastSideBucksFan]

Why do people want lawson so bad? he's like 7 years older than jabari and giannis and has had knee problems in the recent past, plus it gives the bucks one of the shortest back courts in the nba if not the shortest.. no interest in giving value up

i'd be more interested in stauskas

Everybody doesn't need to be the same age.

See: New Jersey Nets with 26-28 year old Kidd taking two high flying rookies (RJ & Kenyon) to the finals two years in a row.

could you really see a knight - lawson backcourt leading this team to the finals?

I do know that backcourt would cause matchup nightmares for opposing teams, but would obviously be defensively deficient and would harken back to Jennings/Monta, but I think they would be much, much better than those two.

I just wanted to break the mold on people thinking that everybody on the team needs to be the same age.

[The Rebel]

I would probably do something like Henson, Middleton, and a top 5 protected 2015 Bucks pick for Lawson, but I am not actually as high on Lawson as most Nuggets fans are.

If a deal gets done according to what your insiders are saying I could see it being something similar to
Nuggets out Lawson, Afflalo
in Stuaskas, Middleton, Thompson, Clippers pick

Bucks out Middleton, Henson, Illysova, Clippers pick
In Lawson, Afflalo, Casspi

Kings out Stauskas, Casspi, Thomspon
In Henson, Illysova

I could also see the Nuggets trying to get the Kings to include Sessions as a place holder at backup PG as well.

Appreciate you engaging like this! Very interested in your perspective on Lawson in particular.

Looking at the scenarios you have suggested, I'd badly hope the Bucks could pull something off without trading our 2015 pick. In these deals it seems like you're equating our top 5 protected 2015 pick to be worth Stauskas + the LAC pick, which is interesting to think about.

I also don't see why the Bucks would be giving up much added value for Afflalo. I'd rather keep Middleton since he at least seems more likely to resign here.

I expect the Bucks to be picking around 15-18 this year, not a great pick. I think the Clippers end up being a bad mid 20s pick, I think Stauskas maybe worth slightly more but not much more, he has not looked good so far this year, and I think most considered a late lotto pick, and the 8th pick last year to be a big reach.

AS for Afflalo, I think he is worth what the Nuggets gave up for him, I personally think Fournier is the better long term prospect than Middleton, but Middleton will be the far better fit for what they are trying to do.

That being said Afflalo and Middleton are both going where they can get the most money, these are not guys with $100m earnings in their career, they are guys who go where the money is at.

[Garden Of Edens]

I tried searching and couldn't find where these Lawson rumors came from, but if it were true I highly doubt Knight is gone. After hearing Lasry's comments on Knight, I dont see them moving him. Also, If we picked up Lawson that means Knight gets moved to the 2

[Nuggets_Talk]

Having only read the rumor on like page 111 (not sure if there have been updates I since) can someone fill me in as to why Denver may consider this deal. Why would a rebuilding team do this? What am I missing regarding the Milwaukee players involved?