Free Agency Thread -David West to Spurs for free

[blazza18]

Hate that Asik deal. I would've gone small with AD at the 5 and targeted West/Amir to play the 4.

[Baddy Chuck]

Hate that Asik deal. I would've gone small with AD at the 5 and targeted West/Amir to play the 4.

Yeah, teams a mess.

[tyland]

Great value for Crowder.

[tydett]

They would keep retain the Sonics name if they moved to Seattle - http://www.sonicsarena.com By the way, they are having the same debates on financing as Milwaukee is, most of the public isn't thrilled about yet another stadium.

good I hope Seattle fizzs out and stops being the loaded gun the league uses to force new arenas.

Quick off topic q... do you hope the Philly plan works? I personally don't because it's a copy cat league and I just don't want a bunch of teams doing it. And the more teams who try it the less effective it is since even if 10 teams completely tank one of them has to finish 10th

I'm not even sure what their plan is anymore. It has been 3 years since they started this rebuild and they still seem to be stuck in first gear.

I think, just like there's not enough talent for a ton of parity, there's not a lack of enough talent for 10 teams to just bottom out. It's fine for Philly to run out D-leaguers... but if 10 are doing it, that means that the other 20 have stacked rosters, which just doesn't seem right.

[randy84]

... if the alternative is handing a good cap situation to the Seattle bucks.

They would keep retain the Sonics name if they moved to Seattle - http://www.sonicsarena.com By the way, they are having the same debates on financing as Milwaukee is, most of the public isn't thrilled about yet another stadium.

good I hope Seattle fizzs out and stops being the loaded gun the league uses to force new arenas.

Quick off topic q... do you hope the Philly plan works? I personally don't because it's a copy cat league and I just don't want a bunch of teams doing it. And the more teams who try it the less effective it is since even if 10 teams completely tank one of them has to finish 10th

I'm not even sure what their plan is anymore. It has been 3 years since they started this rebuild and they still seem to be stuck in first gear.

[Bernman]

After seeing it, it's worse for Sacramento (the pick swap option is the tipping point, as that's very dangerous), and reflective of them being an even lowlier franchise plan-wise right now, but I still don't think what Hinkie is doing is leading anywhere ever or for a very, very long time, at which point it wasn't really worth all the many years they had sacrificed. They are not really progressing, just going in circles on the hamster wheel. Start to build something already so it comes together and you don't alienate or reduce the values of the good players you actually do accumulate.

[humanrefutation]

Straight up honestly, if I had a choice between the Bucks staying with Randive as their owner or losing the team, I think I'd rather let them go. After a lifetime of following a Bucks team owned by Herb Kohl, I don't think I could deal with an owner who is arguably worse.

[M-C-G]

Asik 5/60. Could be a baseline for Lopez.

If so...no thanks.

Yeah, gross. John Henson is going to be a rich man this time next year. And Brandon Wright's agent should be shot if Asik is bringing down deals like this one.

[Chuck Diesel]

I would have given Crowder Danny Green's deal.

[AussieBuck]

I'm not talking my "way around Monroe's D over Hibbert's" even if that statement made any sense. My post was about fit. If you're building a defense from the ground up, go with Hibbert. Unfortunately, we're not, because in general, that's just not the reality of the league. In order for Hibbert to truly excel with Milwaukee, the defensive system would likely need a complete overhaul, and for now, it's a case of "if it's really good, why break it to see if we can fix it better?" Again, this is about upside, in a perfect world, TRUTHFULLY, how much does Hibbert's defense really improve the team? Unless you're making the case that Monroe is going to completely ruin our defense (you'd be hard pressed to do so given our results this season) you're attempting to make incremental gains in an area of strength instead of improving weaknesses.

As far as your "max guy" argument, feel free to scroll up, click the "Milwaukee Bucks" in bold letters, scroll down a bit to the Middleton contract thread, and see reasoning.

Oh, also, age, core, vs. band-aid.

Middleton is a very good player, Monroe is a bog average one. Monroe also wants an opt out so he can be even more hilariously overpayed in two years. He's either also a "band-aid" or a top 5 worst contract in 2 years. Hibbert would fit the D in a similar fashion to Bogut's fit at the Warriors. Again I'm not advocating Hibbert he's just a better option than a box score stat padder.

AGAIN, you use Hibbert situationally. HOW MUCH DOES THAT IMPROVE THIS TEAM? That is the question I keep repeating which you keep ignoring. Again, incremental gains on a strength vs. not addressing any of the weaknesses this team currently has.

Signing a 25 year old center with talent on the block and a high basketball IQ is not a "band-aid" solution. It's a move with upside. Acting like it's a band aid solution on the level of acquiring a past athletic prime 29 year old Roy Hibbert is flat out comical.

Also comical continually calling him a "box score stat padder" and acting like it's a statement that has credence. He's been the primary offensive option for a team in Detroit lacking talent throughout his career. He's not going to be asked to be "the man" in Milwaukee with both Jabari and Giannis in the fold. How much of a "difference maker" was Paul Millsap prior to his arrival in Atlanta? David West in Indiana? etc. Monroe is not good enough to carry a team, so using that as an argument against him doesn't really apply here.

Hibbert gives us what Zaza does with more D. Monroe doesn't help on either end most likely, just takes touches and shots we don't need to score at average efficiency. I don't want to max out an offensive minded player who will be only a better option than the PG who shouldn't be starting at all. Millsap has been awesome for years, West has been solid forever, not sure where you're going with this.

[El Duderino]

Boston want all the 6th-8th men.

It really is hard to figure out what Ainge is doing?

Last year he makes moves which keeps Boston just right outside of the lottery, but then on draft day desperately tries trading into the lottery for Winslow.

Now he adds Amir Johnson and resigns Crowder. As players, neither got overpaid really, but it further crowds up their roster full of just a bunch of solid players, with none who have upper tier level talent. Ainge is pulling a Herb Kohl, except he does own a bunch of future draft picks.

[Max Green]

I would have given Crowder Danny Green's deal.

You're insane.

[skones]

After seeing it, it's worse for Sacramento (the pick swap option is the tipping point, as that's very dangerous), and reflective of them being an even lowlier franchise plan-wise right now, but I still don't think what Hinkie is doing is leading anywhere ever or for a very, very long time, at which point it wasn't really worth all the many years they had sacrificed. They are not really progressing, just going in circles on the hamster wheel. Start to build something already so it comes together and you don't alienate or reduce the values of the good players you actually do accumulate.

Agreed, wonder what the protection is on those swaps, but given how terrible Philly is, I'm not sure how truly dangerous those swaps ever become given what you stated later on in your post. Philly is going into year 3 of their total overhaul and they don't seem to have a whole lot to show for it in terms of improvement right now.

With that being said, the Kings are a mess. Ranadive has no clue.

[AussieBuck]

Boston want all the 6th-8th men.

It really is hard to figure out what Ainge is doing?

Last year he makes moves which keeps Boston just right outside of the lottery, but then on draft day desperately tries trading into the lottery for Winslow.

Now he adds Amir Johnson and resigns Crowder. As players, neither got overpaid really, but it further crowds up their roster full of just a bunch of solid players, with none who have upper tier level talent. Ainge is pulling a Herb Kohl, except he does own a bunch of future draft picks.

Collecting assets dreaming of another Allen/KG offseason next year I guess. Helps to have Pierce on your team in that situation though.

[stellation]

[blazza18]

I would have given Crowder Danny Green's deal.

I would have given Green, Carroll's deal.

[Diggr14]

I think bringing in any of these guys artificially puts us in the 8 seed range. I'd pass and let this team naturally get better. This past seasons playoff run was akin to the FTD run. We need to not make the Salmons type move.. and let these guys grow into it.

How does picking up a viable starting center lead to putting us in the 8 seed range. Especially with Jabari coming back, Giannis having another year and MCW getting a full offseason to learn with coach kidd. I think by adding a legitimate starting center we can compete for home court in the first round next year.

Let's be real. We overachieved hardcore last season. There are too many ifs on this team to assume they make the playoffs even in the East. If Parker stays healthy and can take the next step, If Giannis develops a consistent jumper, If Dudley doesn't suck, If 'insert center' can play defense or score, If MCW can shoot 42% and not turn the rock over a ton, If Middleton can repeat his 1 year wonder.... you can go on a while like this with many players. Many things went right with the guys that stayed healthy last season. Losing Parker was probably worth a game maybe two, losing Sanders might have helped them (he was atrocious last season when he played and he's always been a locker room cancer/headcase) so in a way they didnt lose a ton... when Sanders played last season he was a bucket of ass.. Parker was solid and what we missed the most for him was key development time.

[El Duderino]

Asik 5/60. Could be a baseline for Lopez.

Wow. He's a great rebounder and solid defender, but they need a roster overhual around Davis who looks like he'll be stuck on a fringe playoff type of team for a few years at least.

[Bernman]

Agreed, wonder what the protection is on those swaps, but given how terrible Philly is, I'm not sure how truly dangerous those swaps ever become given what you stated later on in your post. Philly is going into year 3 of their total overhaul and they don't seem to have a whole lot to show for it in terms of improvement right now.

With that being said, the Kings are a mess. Ranadive has no clue.

Yeah, I suppose I wasn't thinking about it from the perspective of how bad the Sixers will almost inevitably be too. So if Cousins goes mental and contracts of win now players expire to make the Kings draft high sooner than expected, the Sixers would be up there too anyway. But you never know, with the way the lotto works, Philly could fall to six, the Kings move up to 1, and then it's a huge difference still even if it happens only one time. So yeah, dangerous if there aren't careful protections.

[Diggr14]

Asik 5/60. Could be a baseline for Lopez.

Wow. He's a great rebounder and solid defender, but they need a roster overhual around Davis who looks like he'll be stuck on a fringe playoff type of team for a few years at least.

Davis could be the new Kevin Garnett.. signs longterm with a team and is the clear best player/future hall of famer (if he stays healthy).. but might not ever get enough help to win. Garnett had marbury when he was young and terrell brandon later on.. but those teams were always a player or so away.