Caron Butler traded to Bucks for Ish Smith and Kratsov

[PkrsBcksGphsMqt]

This was the ideal move to finish the roster from a stealth tank perspective. The worry if you wanted a top ten pick next season was the Bucks were going to add a guy who added wins. They didn't, it didn't cost them anything, it didn't affect next summer, and it takes away minutes from a guy in Middleton who would have been better.

Yanni was never going to get legit NBA minutes and Middleton is still here for three more seasons.

I want losses this year and if this is the final "roster finishing" move I'm totally fine with that. We're still looking at a ceiling of 10th in the East, likely 11th and there's the potential to be much worse with one injury.

I agree with this, but the move makes me a lot less excited for the season. I'll probably only watch when I'm channel surfing like the last couple of years. I was naively hoping we'd finally go young, then I would have actually tuned in on a regular basis.

[Buckrageous]

Could signal that Delfino is hurt worse then we thought. So long as Caron takes his minutes and not Giannis/Middleton's I'm fine with it. Thankfully no picks...

I'm guessing so too. Training camp surprisingly is only about a month away and if Delfino is nowhere close to being ready, I'm guessing they decided to pursue Butler since the cost was 2 guys that weren't going to make the team anyway.

But if Delfino is healthy, then this doesn't make much sense to me.

How is Delfino hurt worse than they thought? Nobody took him to a doctor before they gave him $6,000,000 for the next 2 years? I would like an apologist to defend that. How the **** do you spend $12,000,000(Butler and Delfino) in one year what is being advertised as a place holder for your too young rookie on a team that isn't going to compete?

[emunney]

Slava's going to make us regret this, btw.

[SkilesTheLimit]

Slava's going to make us regret this, btw.

Bone was clearing garbage minutes for the other white, Euro stiff he signed.

Seeing GAD's breakdown of how we used our cap space this summer makes me cringe. These FO guys actually get paid millions of dollars to light Kohl's money on fire.

[emunney]

How much do you want to bet McDonough ends up with a decent draft pick from the cap space the Suns just created?

[cam2win]

Caron + Carlos >> Lebron + Wade IMO

[LUKE23]

My thoughts on the Butler trade:

1. I never at any point this offseason thought Hammond was "stealth tanking" or whatever, and this trade confirms it. They are obviously trying to win this year and think this move helps.

2. This move in terms of the W/L column doesn't impact much. It was a mid 30's win team before the move and still is.

3. This move all but guarantees Giannis sees less than 10 minutes per game.

4. This move makes not landing Bledsoe initially indefensible. You won't take on Butler to land a young PG prospect, but then will after the fact? Great asset management.

5. I expect all of Ridnour, Neal, Butler, Delfino, and Pachulia to be in the top 9 in the rotation. Meaning the youth movement is somewhat overblown.

6. One of the more overlooked aspects of this deal is how it limits our trade flexibility at the deadline. We had a chance to maybe add a better player than Butler via salary dump, but now all trades will be salary for salary in full.

Really a stupid move.

[Buckrageous]

I hoped we had lucked into a youth movement. This sucks. I want to punch someone or something. It doesn't make them any more competitive it just eats up minutes and cap space. I love that Jimduke says he likes this move because he wants the team he roots for to win games as if a 33 year old Caron Butler is going to bring wins. It's not 2004. Butler isn't winning ****.

[Buckrageous]

How much do you want to bet McDonough ends up with a decent draft pick from the cap space the Suns just created?

With $6 million in space? Please, you can't even get one for $8 million.

[Frank Nova]

This is fine with me because its irrelevant. Ish Smith stinks and Slava was supposed to be cut so we turned that into the corpse of Caron.

Butler can't stay healthy to save his life so this was a lateral move IMO. We bring in a higher profile player because he has a good name around the league and plays the position we need to fill. Giannis should play in the NBDL for most of the season anyway and Khris is nothing more than a back up right now so why not do this? Like ReasonablySober said before, this has stealth tank written all over it.

We want a high draft pick to save the franchise, so why the heck does any Bucks fan care about what our cap space looks like? As long as we have the space to sign our 1st round pick every year, what else matters? What do we need cap room for? To absorb 35yr old Caron Butler? Or to overpay Oj Mayo or Zaza Pachulia or Drew Gooden? All Hammond has done is shuffle the roster around while adding some seriously talented picks (Sanders, Tobias, Henson, Giannis). He's going to continue to do that until he's gone or until he hits on a superstar. Larry Giannis Henson and 2014 1st round pick is all that is relevant in MKE NBA right now. There's no chance Butler makes us any better so why be upset?

Caron sure fits the mold of "starter" BuckPack called weeks ago. This must've been in the works for awhile.

[emunney]

4. This move makes not landing Bledsoe initially indefensible. You won't take on Butler to land a young PG prospect, but then will after the fact? Great asset management.

Can somebody come up with the article by a national writer ESBF referenced earlier that said we didn't get Bledsoe because we wouldn't take on Butler?

[Max Green]

4. This move makes not landing Bledsoe initially indefensible. You won't take on Butler to land a young PG prospect, but then will after the fact? Great asset management.

I really wish you and some others would stop repeating this as if it was true. That was all baseless speculation, no reputable writers reported it.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/352222866089054209[/tweet]

[JimmyTheKid]

So we gave up two guys we were going to cut for Caron Butler and half the board is legitimately upset? Uh, why? Was the offseason going too well for some of you? Trading Ish Smith and Kratsov ruins a nice stretch of moves?

Some quick reminders:

1) The Delfino signing was bad whether we traded for Caron or not.
2) GA wasn't going to see significant minutes whether we traded for Caron or not.
3) Kohl doesn't tank.

I shared this when I introduced myself after joining RealGM, but I'll do it again since we're trading for Caron. I've been on the basketball court multiple times with him in high school and Summer League. Probably my claim to fame as a high school athlete. ("Back in '82, I could throw a football a quarter mile") He was a man amongst boys obviously. Dominating every facet of the game.

In fact, when Caron won "Athlete of the Week" from the Racine Journal Times early in the season (1998?), I was one of the names "also nominated for athlete of the week." I still have that article in a scrapbook somewhere. My team was off to a 2-0 start and I had a nice couple games to begin the season. I think we ended 6-16 that year.

Caron also still owes my friend $20 from a dice game. The ultimate bully. If it looked like he was about to lose, he'd make up new rules to win. He was the biggest, baddest dude in Racine at the time. Everyone knew him. He got in trouble for bringing a gun to school on multiple occasions, selling cocaine, and many other things. But its been a joy watching him turn his life around. A real life, local, "rags to riches" story. Jim Calhoun was the father he never had. Helped change his entire perspective on life. Then the unbelievable run in the NCAA tourney. Probably would have been picked in the late 20's had UCONN been knocked out that first round. Ended up a top-10 pick.

I doubt he has much left in the tank, but I'd much rather see him starting at SF than Carlos Delfino, thats for sure. If anything, he's here for a year, mentors our young SF's, and retires as a member of the Milwaukee Bucks. Back where it all began in the state of Wisconsin. Full circle. Its a feel good story, and we gave up absolutely nothing to bring him in.

[LUKE23]

I really wish you and some others would stop repeating this as if it was true. That was all baseless speculation, no reputable writers reported it.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/352222866089054209[/tweet]

Spare me. For one, the "never had a shot at Bledsoe" comment likely stems from the notion that we wouldn't take on Butler. If anyone is going to legitimately argue that had we taken on Butler AND traded Redick, that we couldn't bring Bledsoe our way, your logic skills need some work.

The Suns got Bledsoe for taking on Butler and trading Dudley. But the Bucks can't land Bledsoe taking on Butler and trading Redick? Get out of here with that crap.

[JimmyTheKid]

4. This move makes not landing Bledsoe initially indefensible. You won't take on Butler to land a young PG prospect, but then will after the fact? Great asset management.

I really wish you and some others would stop repeating this as if it was true. That was all baseless speculation, no reputable writers reported it.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/352222866089054209[/tweet]

Thank you.

[Thunder Muscle]

Could signal that Delfino is hurt worse then we thought. So long as Caron takes his minutes and not Giannis/Middleton's I'm fine with it. Thankfully no picks...

I'm guessing so too. Training camp surprisingly is only about a month away and if Delfino is nowhere close to being ready, I'm guessing they decided to pursue Butler since the cost was 2 guys that weren't going to make the team anyway.

But if Delfino is healthy, then this doesn't make much sense to me.

How is Delfino hurt worse than they thought? Nobody took him to a doctor before they gave him $6,000,000 for the next 2 years? I would like an apologist to defend that. How the **** do you spend $12,000,000(Butler and Delfino) in one year what is being advertised as a place holder for your too young rookie on a team that isn't going to compete?

Fairly simple, he isn't healing as fast as they thought. Everyone heals differently. I'm not defending the move, in fact I've said a few times that this doesn't make sense to bring in both Butler AND Delfino.

On paper, Giannis is definitely buried but it only takes a few injuries to Butler/Delfino, and Middleton being ineffective before Giannis enters the picture. I'm not disputing this complicates matters but we'll see how it plays out. Larry Drew may go with the young guys if they're showing something.

[buckboy]

So we gave up nothing for Caron? Whatever's sounds good to me.

We gave up $6MM in capspace. Which sucks.

Granted, Hammond wouldn't have used it intelligently, but still.

[Steve210]

This is a typical Bucks move, and a lot of us could see this coming from a mile away. As much as most of us posted in the SF thread we wanted to roll with what we have and play Middleton and Giannis heavy minutes, you can throw that out the window now.

I have nothing against Butler, and I'm hoping he has a Kurt Thomas type locker room effect and actually provides a positive mentor to the young guys. I wouldn't have made the move, but at least the Bucks didn't give up much to get him. Hopefully Drew allows these guys to compete for minutes, but you can probably pencil Caron in as the starting SF, Middelton will get 10-15 minutes, and Giannis will get garbage time if he's lucky. If Giannis isn't going to play much in Milwaukee, send him down to Fort Wayne and let him play 30+ minutes a night so he can develop.

I'm guessing that Steinmiller and the cronies and the rest of the Bucks brass are in a meeting right now with their rookie sales staff and having them call all the Racine people that have ever purchased a Bucks ticket plan. I can almost here them say something like, c'mon guys, Caron is coming home, get your tickets! We aren't giving up that 8th seed without a fight! When will these guys ever learn? 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

[SkilesTheLimit]

This is a typical Bucks move, and a lot of us could see this coming from a mile away. As much as most of us posted in the SF thread we wanted to roll with what we have and play Middleton and Giannis heavy minutes, you can throw that out the window now.

I have nothing against Butler, and I'm hoping he has a Kurt Thomas type locker room effect and actually provides a positive mentor to the young guys. I wouldn't have made the move, but at least the Bucks didn't give up much to get him. Hopefully Drew allows these guys to compete for minutes, but you can probably pencil Caron in as the starting SF, Middelton will get 10-15 minutes, and Giannis will get garbage time if he's lucky. If Giannis isn't going to play much in Milwaukee, send him down to Fort Wayne and let him play 30+ minutes a night so he can develop.

I'm guessing that Steinmiller and the cronies and the rest of the Bucks brass are in a meeting right now with their rookie sales staff and having them call all the Racine people that have ever purchased a Bucks ticket plan. I can almost here them say something like, c'mon guys, Caron is coming him, get your tickets! We aren't giving up that 8th seed without a fight! When will these guys ever learn? 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

Herb Kohl: Maybe Racine will buy-in to extending the 5-county tax for a new "multi-purpose" arena now.

[Matches Malone]

The problem with the Bledsoe deal is we wanted Teague and didn't even think to ask for Bledsoe. I think had we not had our sights on Teague we could have ended up with Bledsoe, but this front office doesn't have the brain to look ahead or have backup plans in case they can't get their guy (Teague).