OT: TV and Movies (with spoilers)

[ReasonablySober]

Dumbed down to appeal to a wider audience? Wha?

I know a LOT more people who dismissed my attempts to get them to watch the show because magic and zombies and dragons were stupid than the reverse of that.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Spoiler:

once dany showed up to westeros with 3 dragons the show was basically over besides two confrontations. whatever the hell political intrigue was left give me a break... the chick has dragons.

so either....
she wins and is queen and whacks off all the starks which would have sucked... or
she marries her weak but good nephew and they rule together with jon sucking up to her for the rest of his life...or
jon whacks dany and either rules himself.... or some version of the way it ended.

make all that another 6 seasons of politcial intrigue, murder and small plotlines? honestly im glad they got on with it. tell the ballad.... lift the crescendo... over. if you want to enjoy it more than you did then just watch it again from the beginning. a lot of it will make more sense and there will be all sorts of bull from seasons 1-6 that you'll ask yourself why they even put it in except for the same cheap thrills a dragon battle in the sky gave us.

good show. glad its over. 10-12 years of the same story and the same more drawn out ending would have become tiring for other reasons

[emunney]

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/

[Aaron It Out]

I've never heard of casual fans having influence on the direction of the show until the last few episodes we're airing. Seems made up. I am one of those casual fans who struggled keeping up all the subtle intricacies for the first 6 seasons. I didn't dislike the show, if anything I always appreciated just how damn good the show was despite not being very invested in it. When season 7 came along I was almost a little disappointed with how "fast" it was moving, only because I realized that I was fully aware of everything going on in the season. With that being true I knew more dedicated followers were being cheated a bit.

Point is, I seriously doubt idiots like me had any influence over the show whatsoever. It was already regarded as maybe the greatest show in history going into S7, so I just don't buy the thought of them feeling some kind of urgency to pivot to a different audience.

It's no coincidence that the intimacy of the show dropped off a cliff the moment it went beyond the novels. I know many things didn't follow the books, but for the most part they never had to worry much about character development because it was already taken care of. I think it's more likely that D&D are just awful writers when it comes to plot, dialogue, and development.

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[humanrefutation]

I know many things didn't follow the books, but for the most part they never had to worry much about character development because it was already taken care of. I think it's more likely that D&D are just awful writers when it comes to plot, dialogue, and development.

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That's pretty much it. I don't think they "dumbed it down" purposefully as much as they focused on what was easier to write - battles and dragons and ice zombies and murders. The stuff that's spectacle. That stuff is a major part of what made the show extraordinary, but it comes off as superficial when it isn't tethered to a story arc that feels meaningful in its own right.

[ReasonablySober]

I really enjoyed the last couple seasons, and I'm also someone who thinks the ice people and dragons and battles are the worst part of the show.

[MiltownHawkeye]

Point is, I seriously doubt idiots like me had any influence over the show whatsoever. It was already regarded as maybe the greatest show in history going into S7, so I just don't buy the thought of them feeling some kind of urgency to pivot to a different audience.

George R.R. Martin himself stated that showrunners started giving certain characters more to do because people liked them.

I'm not saying that the show was struggling for ratings so they had to pivot. Rather, they liked the reaction and positive reinforcement from doing episodes like Battle of the Bastards and the Sept explosion episode, where the production value (CGI, cinematography, soundtrack have all remained elite to the very end) overshadowed the narrative issues present. So D&D felt they could get lazy with the writing itself even though the writing itself was the only reason this show was once seen as prestige TV rather than a popcorn show.

People on Twitter aren't going to go crazy for the Tywin/Arya Harrenhal scenes or Robert/Cersei's conversation where it's just two people talking because that's booooooorrrrrinnnnnnnng, but Daenarys swooping in last second on a dragon? Arya doing a 360 no scope and killing the Night King? Lyanna Mormont being a total badass and killing a giant? Tormund dick jokes and drinking games? Way easier to appeal to the lowest common denominator with that stuff.

[ReasonablySober]

Point is, I seriously doubt idiots like me had any influence over the show whatsoever. It was already regarded as maybe the greatest show in history going into S7, so I just don't buy the thought of them feeling some kind of urgency to pivot to a different audience.

George R.R. Martin himself stated that showrunners started giving certain characters more to do because people liked them.

I'm not saying that the show was struggling for ratings so they had to pivot. Rather, they liked the reaction and positive reinforcement from doing episodes like Battle of the Bastards and the Sept explosion episode, where the production value (CGI, cinematography, soundtrack have all remained elite to the very end) overshadowed the narrative issues present. So D&D felt they could get lazy with the writing itself even though the writing itself was the only reason this show was once seen as prestige TV rather than a popcorn show.

People on Twitter aren't going to go crazy for the Tywin/Arya Harrenhal scenes or Robert/Cersei's conversation where it's just two people talking because that's booooooorrrrrinnnnnnnng, but Daenarys swooping in last second on a dragon? Arya doing a 360 no scope and killing the Night King? Lyanna Mormont being a total badass and killing a giant? Tormund dick jokes and drinking games? Way easier to appeal to the lowest common denominator with that stuff.

Wow, pretty incredible that millions stuck through it for six seasons because of all that boring ****.

[StickeeFingaz]

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/

Great article, thanks.


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[MiltownHawkeye]

Point is, I seriously doubt idiots like me had any influence over the show whatsoever. It was already regarded as maybe the greatest show in history going into S7, so I just don't buy the thought of them feeling some kind of urgency to pivot to a different audience.

George R.R. Martin himself stated that showrunners started giving certain characters more to do because people liked them.

I'm not saying that the show was struggling for ratings so they had to pivot. Rather, they liked the reaction and positive reinforcement from doing episodes like Battle of the Bastards and the Sept explosion episode, where the production value (CGI, cinematography, soundtrack have all remained elite to the very end) overshadowed the narrative issues present. So D&D felt they could get lazy with the writing itself even though the writing itself was the only reason this show was once seen as prestige TV rather than a popcorn show.

People on Twitter aren't going to go crazy for the Tywin/Arya Harrenhal scenes or Robert/Cersei's conversation where it's just two people talking because that's booooooorrrrrinnnnnnnng, but Daenarys swooping in last second on a dragon? Arya doing a 360 no scope and killing the Night King? Lyanna Mormont being a total badass and killing a giant? Tormund dick jokes and drinking games? Way easier to appeal to the lowest common denominator with that stuff.

Wow, pretty incredible that millions stuck through it for six seasons because of all that boring

Season 1 - 2.5m viewers
Season 4 - 6.8m viewers
Season 5 - 6.9m viewers
Season 6 - 7.7m viewers
Season 7 - 10.3m viewers

Gee, I wonder what happened.

[tydett]

Wow, pretty incredible that millions stuck through it for six seasons because of all that boring ****.

Now, granted, I will say I think this is mostly due to Ned's beheading and the Red Wedding. Those two events alone probably were some of the most shocking in terms of television at the time, and viewership numbers skyrocketed throughout the following seasons, where the growth had been steady and predictable before. I'd be willing to bet viewers stuck around for those moments and not for meetings of the small council.

[MiltownHawkeye]

Dumbed down to appeal to a wider audience? Wha?

How many examples of the show being dumbed down would you need to have pointed out to you before you were convinced?

[ReasonablySober]

George R.R. Martin himself stated that showrunners started giving certain characters more to do because people liked them.

I'm not saying that the show was struggling for ratings so they had to pivot. Rather, they liked the reaction and positive reinforcement from doing episodes like Battle of the Bastards and the Sept explosion episode, where the production value (CGI, cinematography, soundtrack have all remained elite to the very end) overshadowed the narrative issues present. So D&D felt they could get lazy with the writing itself even though the writing itself was the only reason this show was once seen as prestige TV rather than a popcorn show.

People on Twitter aren't going to go crazy for the Tywin/Arya Harrenhal scenes or Robert/Cersei's conversation where it's just two people talking because that's booooooorrrrrinnnnnnnng, but Daenarys swooping in last second on a dragon? Arya doing a 360 no scope and killing the Night King? Lyanna Mormont being a total badass and killing a giant? Tormund dick jokes and drinking games? Way easier to appeal to the lowest common denominator with that stuff.

Wow, pretty incredible that millions stuck through it for six seasons because of all that boring

Season 1 - 2.5m viewers
Season 4 - 6.8m viewers
Season 5 - 6.9m viewers
Season 6 - 7.7m viewers
Season 7 - 10.3m viewers

Gee, I wonder what happened.

The jump from 1 to 4 is bigger than 6 to 7. Lotta white walkers and big dragon battles in those seasons?

[MiltownHawkeye]

Wow, pretty incredible that millions stuck through it for six seasons because of all that boring

Season 1 - 2.5m viewers
Season 4 - 6.8m viewers
Season 5 - 6.9m viewers
Season 6 - 7.7m viewers
Season 7 - 10.3m viewers

Gee, I wonder what happened.

The jump from 1 to 4 is bigger than 6 to 7. Lotta white walkers and big dragon battles in those seasons?

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you wouldn't be this disingenuous, but I guess I shouldn't have.

[ReasonablySober]

Season 1 - 2.5m viewers
Season 4 - 6.8m viewers
Season 5 - 6.9m viewers
Season 6 - 7.7m viewers
Season 7 - 10.3m viewers

Gee, I wonder what happened.

The jump from 1 to 4 is bigger than 6 to 7. Lotta white walkers and big dragon battles in those seasons?

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you wouldn't be this disingenuous, but I guess I shouldn't have.

No I'm just really surprised so many people stuck with the last two seasons seeing as all the fans of the previous seasons didn't get anything out of it.

[Ayt]

Point is, I seriously doubt idiots like me had any influence over the show whatsoever. It was already regarded as maybe the greatest show in history going into S7, so I just don't buy the thought of them feeling some kind of urgency to pivot to a different audience.

George R.R. Martin himself stated that showrunners started giving certain characters more to do because people liked them.

I'm not saying that the show was struggling for ratings so they had to pivot. Rather, they liked the reaction and positive reinforcement from doing episodes like Battle of the Bastards and the Sept explosion episode, where the production value (CGI, cinematography, soundtrack have all remained elite to the very end) overshadowed the narrative issues present. So D&D felt they could get lazy with the writing itself even though the writing itself was the only reason this show was once seen as prestige TV rather than a popcorn show.

People on Twitter aren't going to go crazy for the Tywin/Arya Harrenhal scenes or Robert/Cersei's conversation where it's just two people talking because that's booooooorrrrrinnnnnnnng, but Daenarys swooping in last second on a dragon? Arya doing a 360 no scope and killing the Night King? Lyanna Mormont being a total badass and killing a giant? Tormund dick jokes and drinking games? Way easier to appeal to the lowest common denominator with that stuff.

Even if all that is true, it is still on the idiot writers and not the audience.

[MiltownHawkeye]

The jump from 1 to 4 is bigger than 6 to 7. Lotta white walkers and big dragon battles in those seasons?

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you wouldn't be this disingenuous, but I guess I shouldn't have.

No I'm just really surprised so many people stuck with the last two seasons seeing as all the fans of the previous seasons didn't get anything out of it.

You're also surprised by basic math, apparently.

[DingleJerry]

Spoiler:

[spoiler]He just got promised Highgarden.

His financial qualifications really don't matter there. His friendship with Tyrion and his access to the wealth of Highgarden are all that matter. That's actually pretty realistic, IMO.

Sure, but that totally contradicts RS' explanation.

Spoiler:

What's even wrong with Bronn in Highgarden? Do you not get how easy it is to predict the motivations or loyalties of someone when all they care about is money and pussy? Bronn's a good guy whose done good things, even if it's all in the interest in himself. Better the enemy you know, etc.

So screw it, let him have a House.

[/spoiler]

Spoiler:

Just adding one thing to the Bronn talk I don't think I saw here. One could argue that he stayed loyal to Tyrion by not killing him therefore earned his trust and a position. He was paid to do it, but instead snitched the plot to Tyrion and let him live. I mean, he basically turned his back on Cersai and chose Tyrion there. That's logical why he's trusted.

That said, trusting him with all the money idk about that. And yes they could've gone other routes too since of course Brann knows all the other stuff the guy has done. But I don't see anything horribly out of line here

[ReasonablySober]

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you wouldn't be this disingenuous, but I guess I shouldn't have.

No I'm just really surprised so many people stuck with the last two seasons seeing as all the fans of the previous seasons didn't get anything out of it.

You're also surprised by basic math, apparently.

At least I didn't waste my time watching a show I hate.

[Erifee]

The jump from 1 to 4 is bigger than 6 to 7. Lotta white walkers and big dragon battles in those seasons?

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you wouldn't be this disingenuous, but I guess I shouldn't have.

No I'm just really surprised so many people stuck with the last two seasons seeing as all the fans of the previous seasons didn't get anything out of it.

People can watch the same show for different reasons as it progresses, too. For example, I watched most of the series because it had snappy writing and avoided lazy fantasy cliches like people repeatedly escaping death at the last possible moment.

I watched the rest of the series because it had become a car wreck and those are fascinating, too. Judging by the scores on IMDB for these last couple episodes, that was a popular motivation.

The show was ending. If they pulled a Walking Dead and decided to continue on in perpetuity, that's one thing. But this was the promise of a definite ending; why not stick around for a couple hours and see how badly D&D yarf all over themselves?