#36 - Andre Jackson Jr

[Fotis St]

The ability of teams to completely play off him at a comedic level due to lack of outside shot has to be somewhat mitigated when a guy is a good passer, high IQ decision maker/creator, elite athlete and finisher at the rim.

I don’t think it’s crazy at all to see a useful player with that make up even with the absence of a perimeter shot.

I saw that opponents coaches had their Centers "guard" him sagging off at the FT line, like Brook Lopez on him.

I can't BUT think that his defender is a Giannis wall brick. He is probably unplayable with Giannis. I am not sure if a new offensive scheme can fix this, I think NOT but we all get the chance to watch it happen or not. A real challenge for the offensive coach. As I predicted, there is going to be o conflict of interest between our coaches. It is not american football to change whole squad on the 2 ends of the floor.

[TroyD92]

Would like to see him for myself. I did notice some of his earlier highlights his form was 10x worse. It's still really really bad, but it did improve. Apparently had a .118% percentage as a freshman and that checks out. 21-22 was around 36% and this year dipped to around 28% (61 attempts vs 89 this year).

[Fotis St]

Heard a stat that for the whole season he didn't make a single 3pt contested closer to 6ft ...

[machu46]

Heard a stat that for the whole season he didn't make a single 3pt contested closer to 6ft ...

We definitely watched the same video lol


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[LUKE23]

I think he gets on the court due to elite defense from day 1. It's impossible to predict how much the shooting will develop, but he is 21 so I think we give him 2-3 years there.

His athleticism jumps off the screen and he has great size. He's going to help. It's just going to be in more unorthodox ways.

[Fotis St]

@LUKE23 He can be utilised as a transition threat, a lob baseline threat. Making like 6pts on easy transition buckets and 2 more on a baseline cut is smth I can imagine happening while having 4 assists and playing good D on a small backup role.

I see basketball from a totally different angle than Horst ... I believe shooting is not easy fixable, while athleticism is easier to fix. This is why I have doubts about this pick and his NBA role and fit with us. There is hope of course, we will check him out in summer league. I think his athleticism impact shrinks while playing against NBA athletic guys, but I surely like his warrior spirit.Good luck

[LUKE23]

@LUKE23 He can be utilised as a transition threat, a lob baseline threat. Making like 6pts on easy transition buckets and 2 more on a baseline cut is smth I can imagine happening while having 4 assists and playing good D on a small backup role.

I see basketball from a totally different angle than Horst ... I believe shooting is not easy fixable, while athleticism is easier to fix. This is why I have doubts about this pick and his NBA role and fit with us. There is hope of course, we will check him out in summer league. I think his athleticism impact shrinks while playing against NBA athletic guys, but I surely like his warrior spirit.Good luck

I don't agree that "athleticism is easier to fix". You are born with a baseline athletic foundation. You can improve it somewhat through training, but you can't move to another tier athletically beyond the traits you were born with. Freaky size and athleticism are given at birth. I also believe the same for traits such as competitiveness.

[M-C-G]

This is the type of player I have wanted for a long time. I think his shot may always be unconventional but I could see him running PnR and really honing in that push shot / lob to Giannis and it being a thing of beauty.

His highlight reel is bonkers, especially his interior passing and his transition passing with both hands Is better than anyone we have had on the roster in a long long time


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[machu46]

Maybe more than the shooting which I view as borderline hopeless already, I’d like to see him prioritize ball handling improvements. I think thightening the handle enough that he can get downhill is probably the thing he can work on to help his offensive game the most.


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[Prez]

Athleticism is easier to fix? Tell that to Ingles or Bobby or Delly or any other less than explosive or outright unathletic (by NBA standards) dude we’ve had over the years whose athletic limitations ultimately made them problematic or an outright liability at times. I’m sure they’d love to just “fix” their athletic issues lol.

I’m just sick of having a slower, older team against basically everyone. It’s about **** time that we started bringing in some legit A tier explosive athletes via the draft and it’s especially sweet to have it on the wings. We have a coach with a high level defensive and player development reputation, now give him the athletes to work with.

And the best part is AJ isn’t just some pure athlete, he’s got high BBIQ and great instincts on both ends. To steal emunney’s point from a couple days ago, how often does someone with phenomenal physical tools + elite intangibles/feel + great work ethic go on to completely fail? If it does, alright, but I’m on board with the philosophy.

[machu46]

Athleticism is easier to fix? Tell that to Ingles or Bobby or Delly or any other less than explosive or outright unathletic (by NBA standards) dude we’ve had over the years whose athletic limitations ultimately made them problematic or an outright liability at times. I’m sure they’d love to just “fix” their athletic issues lol.

I’m just sick of having a slower, older team against basically everyone. It’s about **** time that we started bringing in some legit A tier explosive athletes via the draft and it’s especially sweet to have it on the wings. We have a coach with a high level defensive and player development reputation, now give him the athletes to work with.

And the best part is AJ isn’t just some pure athlete, he’s got high BBIQ and great instincts on both ends. To steal emunney’s point from a couple days ago, how often does someone with phenomenal physical tools + elite intangibles/feel + great work ethic go on to completely fail? If it does, alright, but I’m on board with the philosophy.

I would guess that list is probably longer than the list of 0-level scorers that end up being good NBA players but Jackson feels like he has a chance to be an outlier.

I agree that I love the idea of betting on elite athletes with high motor and IQ.


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[LUKE23]

Defensive death lineup next year is Carter-Jrue-Beauchamp-Jackson-GA

[nagawicka]

Maybe more than the shooting which I view as borderline hopeless already, I’d like to see him prioritize ball handling improvements. I think thightening the handle enough that he can get downhill is probably the thing he can work on to help his offensive game the most.

If he can finish more reliably than DDV, that's an upgrade.

[tski1972]

This kid checks a lot of the boxes but yikes, that shot is a long way from coming around.

[Fotis St]

Athleticism is easier to fix? Tell that to Ingles or Bobby or Delly or any other less than explosive or outright unathletic (by NBA standards) dude we’ve had over the years whose athletic limitations ultimately made them problematic or an outright liability at times. I’m sure they’d love to just “fix” their athletic issues lol.

I’m just sick of having a slower, older team against basically everyone. It’s about **** time that we started bringing in some legit A tier explosive athletes via the draft and it’s especially sweet to have it on the wings. We have a coach with a high level defensive and player development reputation, now give him the athletes to work with.

And the best part is AJ isn’t just some pure athlete, he’s got high BBIQ and great instincts on both ends. To steal emunney’s point from a couple days ago, how often does someone with phenomenal physical tools + elite intangibles/feel + great work ethic go on to completely fail? If it does, alright, but I’m on board with the philosophy.

Ingles , Bobby , Delly ... hm

Flipping the coin and I give you ...

Giannis, Westbrook and ex#1 pick Josh Jackson

Of course hard workers improve whether its their shooting or athleticism.

Our roster was full of fake shooters. We somehow were the least athletic and a brick 3p fest team.

The question is which is harder, to cut eating pizzas, eat as an professional athlete, do weights, cardio, special exercises for explosiveness for vertical etc ... or fix your shooting mechanics, making shots and own it to perform in less then a second under pressure which is the timeline to shoot a basketball. Of course there are genes and limits but I believe becoming a really good shooter is more difficult. Fixing your shooting is a more delicate harder work ... like fixing something under a microscope while on the other hand improving your athleticism is more of a discipline long term work that doesn't have performance in game issues and changes or this 1 second perform-pressure.

[Prez]

Athleticism is easier to fix? Tell that to Ingles or Bobby or Delly or any other less than explosive or outright unathletic (by NBA standards) dude we’ve had over the years whose athletic limitations ultimately made them problematic or an outright liability at times. I’m sure they’d love to just “fix” their athletic issues lol.

I’m just sick of having a slower, older team against basically everyone. It’s about **** time that we started bringing in some legit A tier explosive athletes via the draft and it’s especially sweet to have it on the wings. We have a coach with a high level defensive and player development reputation, now give him the athletes to work with.

And the best part is AJ isn’t just some pure athlete, he’s got high BBIQ and great instincts on both ends. To steal emunney’s point from a couple days ago, how often does someone with phenomenal physical tools + elite intangibles/feel + great work ethic go on to completely fail? If it does, alright, but I’m on board with the philosophy.

Ingles , Bobby , Delly ... hm

Flipping the coin and I give you ...

Giannis, Westbrook and ex#1 pick Josh Jackson

Of course hard workers improve whether its their shooting or athleticism.

Our roster was full of fake shooters. We somehow were the least athletic and a brick 3p fest team.

The question is which is harder, to cut eating pizzas, eat as an professional athlete, do weights, cardio, special exercises for explosiveness for vertical etc ... or fix your shooting mechanics, making shots and own it to perform in less then a second under pressure which is the timeline to shoot a basketball. Of course there are genes and limits but I believe becoming a really good shooter is more difficult. Fixing your shooting is a more delicate harder work ... like fixing something under a microscope while on the other hand improving your athleticism is more of a discipline long term work that doesn't have performance in game issues and changes or this 1 second perform-pressure.

Giannis was literally malnourished growing up but had crazy raw physical tools, which is why he had such a dramatic physical transformation once he got on an NBA level diet/nutrition plan. If you want to pretend Giannis isn’t a once in a generation physical outlier, alright lol. And Westbrook was already crazy explosive as a prospect coming into the league. And Josh Jackson not only wasn’t a #1 overall pick but was also an explosive athlete coming into the league. These are awful examples lol.

For most guys who are actually committed but are physically limited, you don’t just “cut out pizzas and lift weights” and get to be the level of athlete of Jackson.

[Fotis St]

@Prez I mentioned those 3 names cause they never fixed their shooting while being hard workers for years.

Josh Jackson was #4 overall , he was a jump shot away from being a superstar. I have no idea where he is now.

[Prez]

@Prez I mentioned those 3 names cause they never fixed their shooting while being hard workers for years.

Ah I gotcha. I still would lean towards there’s a more realistic path for a bad shooter to become a respectable if not good shooter than a bad athlete with serious limitations (and not because of laziness/poor work ethic, because we shouldn’t be drafting those guys anyways) becoming a high level athlete.

Also I find this whole discussion to be incomplete - Jackson isn’t just an athlete with nothing else. Dude has great feel, BBIQ on both ends, and secondary playmaking as a wing. He has other tools besides just elite athleticism that’ll make him useful even without a shot.

[midranger]

Offensively in Year 1, he’ll have to make the right reads and be a threat to finish in transition. I assume he’ll go dunker spot in halfcourt. He won’t be asked to do much more.

[Fotis St]

If I were a Bucks assistant coach or a development coach, I would prioritise Andre's FT%. You can't be a rim runner and be 65% FTs.

Giannis has the same issue. Secondly I would make Andre improve his handles in order to attack the rim even in half court offense.

I am excited to see his progress and really curious for our new schemes.

Its a great discussion to analyze ...
What is harder to improve Athleticism or Shooting ?

Its an opportunity for me to explain why I dislike Horst's taste on players and of course understand each other here. It seems this is the main reason of major disagreements on player's evaluation.