Caron Butler traded to Bucks for Ish Smith and Kratsov

[LUKE23]

Thank you.

Use your brain. They are referencing the fact we wouldn't take on Butler (at that point) in the "never had a shot at Bledsoe" comment. Unless you think Jared Dudley has a lot more trade value than JJ Redick and the Bucks couldn't make up the difference.

[ReasonablySober]

My thoughts on the Butler trade:

1. I never at any point this offseason thought Hammond was "stealth tanking" or whatever, and this trade confirms it. They are obviously trying to win this year and think this move helps.

2. This move in terms of the W/L column doesn't impact much. It was a mid 30's win team before the move and still is.

The definition of a stealth tank move in my opinion is one that Hammond or Morway can sell to Kohl because a guy was a name, meanwhile he adds next to nothing on the court and in hurts in all likelihood. This move checks off all the boxes. I literally couldn't come up with another stealth tank move for a SF that fits better.

But you yourself admit this doesn't impact "much" so you seem to agree.

[paulpressey25]

Herb Kohl: Maybe Racine will buy-in to extending the 5-county tax for a new "multi-purpose" arena now.

The scary part is that this I'm sure was mentioned in passing when the brass was discussing the deal.

[LUKE23]

Over a full season, the difference between Butler vs. Middleton vs. Delfino is essentially nothing. All this move did was basically add salary and lower flexibility and lower Giannis' minutes.

[JBucks]

Top seven or eight 3-point shooting team in the NBA this year.

Otherwise it's just hilarious how PHX traded Dudley for Bledsoe.

[emunney]

Thank you.

Use your brain. They are referencing the fact we wouldn't take on Butler (at that point) in the "never had a shot at Bledsoe" comment. Unless you think Jared Dudley has a lot more trade value than JJ Redick and the Bucks couldn't make up the difference.

What evidence do you have that Woj is referencing that we wouldn't take on Butler?

[ReasonablySober]

I can't believe people are still talking about Bledsoe. It's as if they've completely forgotten the fact that the Bucks picked up Knight.

He's younger, shoots and handles the ball better and he's all of the defender Bledsoe is.

I wanted him too, but Bringing up Bledsoe at this point is just stupid.

[emunney]

Eh, I'm interested in re-litigating the Bledsoe thing. If there's evidence out there that we could have had Bledsoe if we'd just taken on Butler, I'd like to see it. I have an open mind. Hit me.

Until then, I will continue to believe the reasonable thing: that the Clippers were compelled to make the move because they got two shooters and good team players that will fit perfectly there, and that otherwise they would have waited for something better.

[ReasonablySober]

Over a full season, the difference between Butler vs. Middleton vs. Delfino is essentially nothing. All this move did was basically add salary and lower flexibility and lower Giannis' minutes.

All this does is cut into Middleton's minutes, and he's my bet to be the best of those three this season.

Yanni is about the biggest NBA project to enter the league in years. He was sitting on the bench, regardless, only likely to see mop-up duty.

[Buckrageous]

Herb Kohl: Maybe Racine will buy-in to extending the 5-county tax for a new "multi-purpose" arena now.

The scary part is that this I'm sure was mentioned in passing when the brass was discussing the deal.

Of course his $8,000,000 salary this year represents 2-3% of the total cost of an arena (if between $300-400 mil). Add that to what they gave Delfino and you re talking 3-5%. Salaries get thrown around like they are just meaningless numbers when we talk sports but $8,000,000 is real money. For what? What is this move going to accomplish?

[LUKE23]

I have no evidence, just as the people saying we had no shot have no true evidence. I'm looking at it had we also agreed to take Butler but demanded Bledsoe in return. Who do the Clippers want more, Dudley or Redick? Hell, they probably could have still gotten both, but had we agreed to take Butler's $8M (with the agreement of a Redick S/T), we'd have the leverage to demand Bledsoe, not Phoenix.

Again, nobody has proof either way. I'm looking at this had we agreed to take Butler initially.

[JimmyTheKid]

I can't believe people are still talking about Bledsoe. It's as if they've completely forgotten the fact that the Bucks picked up Knight.

He's younger, shoots and handles the ball better and he's all of the defender Bledsoe is.

I wanted him too, but Bringing up Bledsoe at this point is just stupid.

Not only that, but this isn't Chris Paul or John Wall we're talking about. Its Eric freaking Bledsoe. Just move on already.

[Max Green]

Are you F'N kidding me Luke? He wasn't referencing that we wouldn't take on Butler. He clearly states we "never had a shot at Bledsoe". If we wouldn't take on Butler he would have easily stated that.

Please post one reputable writer saying we turned down Bledsoe because we wouldn't take on Butler. All there was, was people speculating right after the trade happened.

[Treebeard]

What's the current roster count?

[LUKE23]

So you're telling me that had the Bucks agreed to take on Butler, just as Phoenix did, that we had no shot at landing Bledsoe, when the other assets were Dudley vs. Redick? You have a higher opinion of Dudley than me, I guess.

[LUKE23]

What's the current roster count?

15.

Knight/Ridnour/Wolters
Mayo/Neal/Delfino
Butler/Middleton/Giannis
Ilyasova/Henson/Udoh
Sanders/Pachulia/Raduljica

[unklchuk]

YWM. I'd say that's the Bucks current strategy. Youth With Mentors. We have a bunch of young men who may have potential to develop. Hammond has brought in vets in each category to mentor them. Ridnour, Butler, Delfino, Pachulia. All seem to be willing to do the mentoring. The vets aren't anything special, but they don't have looong contracts at exorbitant cost.

More than once Hammond has talked about Delfino and others being such good mentors.

Following this strategy makes the Bucks better than getting high draft pick, worse than playoffs. Nowhere really. Front Office not concerned. They want a "competitive" team with developing youth. They don't care if competitive conflicts with developing.

If the youth develop, and the mentors are significant in that, it can give the team the leg up they're looking for. If the youth overall prove no better than so-so, then it's a trainwreck. Few survivors.

[Buckrageous]

Are you F'N kidding me Luke? He wasn't referencing that we wouldn't take on Butler. He clearly states we "never had a shot at Bledsoe". If we wouldn't take on Butler he would have easily stated that.

Please post one reputable writer saying we turned down Bledsoe because we wouldn't take on Butler. All there was, was people speculating right after the trade happened.

I really not lamenting the Bledsoe deal. That said just because the guy that spent 2 years laying out the case of why Lebron James was never going to win championship ad nauseum says "never" doesn't mean it's actually "never".

[emunney]

I have no evidence, just as the people saying we had no shot have no true evidence. I'm looking at it had we also agreed to take Butler but demanded Bledsoe in return. Who do the Clippers want more, Dudley or Redick? Hell, they probably could have still gotten both, but had we agreed to take Butler's $8M (with the agreement of a Redick S/T), we'd have the leverage to demand Bledsoe, not Phoenix.

Again, nobody has proof either way. I'm looking at this had we agreed to take Butler initially.

No, the people who say we had no shot have the preeminent NBA reporter saying we had no shot.

The Clippers did not have to make a choice between Dudley and Redick. If we had refused to participate, they could have just waited.

How exactly would we have the leverage over Phoenix? We didn't have our player under contract. Phoenix did. We were on the clock. Phoenix was not.

[JimmyTheKid]

Are you F'N kidding me Luke? He wasn't referencing that we wouldn't take on Butler. He clearly states we "never had a shot at Bledsoe". If we wouldn't take on Butler he would have easily stated that.

Please post one reputable writer saying we turned down Bledsoe because we wouldn't take on Butler. All there was, was people speculating right after the trade happened.

I really not lamenting the Bledsoe deal. That said just because the guy that spent 2 years laying out the case of why Lebron James was never going to win championship ad nauseum says "never" doesn't mean it's actually "never".

Who did that?