Official #2 Pick Thread - Ford #7: Parker

[RRyder823]

I've been fairley indfferent on the choice between Wiggins and Parker but the closer the draft gets the more Parker is pulling ahead. The only good reasoning i've heard for Wiggins being better then Parker is that he's more physically gifted of a player and that give him a leg up because "he can do things that nobody else in this draft can do and everything esle can be tought by a good coach". I'm sorry but thats just plain and simply not true.

It's the same rational that people used when the Packers drafted Ha Ha but they realley wanted Pryor because he ran a faster 40 time and we need a Free Saftey despite the fact that Pryor was the Strong Saftey of the two and Ha Ha the Free Saftey. I know i'm compareing apples to oranges but I only throw that comparison out there cause it's an argument that has been throwin out there by people that seem to have the belief that all you need is the "physicall gifts" and everything else can be coached up despite film showing something different.

I'm not trying to say that measurables are unimprotent but rather they should be used in way of elavating someone with with the right skills to utalize them. If Wiggins beats his man with his first step but forgets to bring the ball with him then his athletism doesnt do him much good. Conversly despite the fact Parker isnt the "athlete" Wggins is he's a much better player on offence right now because he's able to use his offensive skills in unisin with his "limited" athletism. Defensivly Wiggins projects better because of his gifts but givein Parkers intangibles theres not really a good reason to think he wont have a good chance at least become a solid defender. Only if your in the Pro Wiggins camp would you make such a claim.

I'm not saying that Wiggins can't be a beast of a 2 way player or that Jabari is deffinatly going to be lock down guy but it's deffinatly easier for a guy to take his deffenisive game to the next level then it is for someone to do the same thing on offence. I still like Wiggins but count me in the pro Parker camp based off his skillset + intangibles vrs just Wiggins athletism

[MrPerfect1]

Even if he does not improve his jump shot much, Gordon could be the Noah version of SFs/PFs. I'd take Prime Noah over Prime Melo in a heartbeat

Prime Noah at SF/PF doesn't have nearly the impact of prime Noah at center.

Maybe true, but even a version approaching Prime Kirilenko or Prime Marion may be better than Melo. Both were Monsters whose versatility easily fits in to basically any system

[breakchains]

Kirilenko vs. Melo or Marion vs. Melo is borderline irrelevant. While some of these players may resemble certain players in certain ways, the players themselves are unique so comparing two completely different human beings is of little use here. Because Gordon isn't Kirilenko and Parker isn't Melo. Compare the prospects themselves. Scouting the way you're suggesting is lazy and pointless.

[Baddy Chuck]

Maybe true, but even a version approaching Prime Kirilenko or Prime Marion may be better than Melo.

Not a big Melo fan, but nah.

[paulpressey25]

Gardner awoke from his Soccer slumber to tweet out a couple hours ago that Wiggins, Parker and Embiid all in town for workouts this week.

[Baddy Chuck]

Compare the prospects themselves. Scouting the way you're suggesting is lazy and pointless.

I mean if he thinks those players will eventually become those type of players it really isn't. He's projecting current skills as it relates to their NBA equivalents. Think it's a little ridiculous to think Marion => Melo though.

[SkilesTheLimit]

Gardner awoke from his Soccer slumber to tweet out a couple hours ago that Wiggins, Parker and Embiid all in town for workouts this week.

We seriously need Velasquez covering this team. Imagine the in-depth stories on the Big 3 prospects we would be reading right now if he was on the beat.

Basketball insight and in-depth reporting is sorely lacking. All we get are team fed tweets and game recaps from Gardner.

[Nowak008]

Here is a long anti-Wiggins post from a poster name Brooksfosho on over the RCF forum. I've tried to edit it down somewhat, but this to me is the argument against Wiggins. It is long and repetitive but worth a read.

I agree with everything that guy said actually and still have Wiggins over Parker. I badly want a 2 way player. Who would you rather have Harden or Leonard? Maybe it's just the Spurs system or because I hate Harden so much, but I'd take Leonard.

Wiggins floor to me is Kawi/Marion with a better jumper with an upside of P George/Vince Carter with defense Parker's floor is a better passing Jamison with a ceiling of Carmelo or a player on his level.

[Nowak008]

I put value in those stats that Baddy put up regarding the last ten games. Many times talented young guys don't start putting things together until the second half of their rookie (or frosh) season. I want to see whose learning curve is ascending, as those type of guys then many times really breakout the next year.

See sig

[breakchains]

Compare the prospects themselves. Scouting the way you're suggesting is lazy and pointless.

I mean if he thinks those players will eventually become those type of players it really isn't. He's projecting current skills as it relates to their NBA equivalents. Think it's a little ridiculous to think Marion => Melo though.

It is, because the players are going to be different no matter what. For example, Parker is probably going to be bigger, not quite the first step, and most importantly - will likely be a far better teammate and amenable to coaching as compared to Melo. That makes him a completely different player in terms of his impact on a team, even if they share certain similarities stylistically.

The whole comparison/ceiling game is okay to get a feel for a guys style but that's about it. Using it beyond that is basically counterproductive.

[MrPerfect1]

Compare the prospects themselves. Scouting the way you're suggesting is lazy and pointless.

I mean if he thinks those players will eventually become those type of players it really isn't. He's projecting current skills as it relates to their NBA equivalents. Think it's a little ridiculous to think Marion => Melo though.

I don't think people fully realize how much of a Monster Marion was. Prime Marion:

22 PPG/12 RPG/2 AST/2 STL/1.7 BLK/59% TS%


Melo has never posted an all around season nearing that. It also does not truly speak to the Colossal Difference in Defensive Ability between the 2 during their Prime.

[Baddy Chuck]

There's a huge difference between being the third/fourth wheel that Marion was and what Melo is as well. Marion was a very good player, but Melo is certainly on another level.

[JayMKE]

Role players on contenders get overrated, Leonard is great and all but he's great because he's a cog in an existing championship machine. Put him on the Bucks or anywhere and ask him to be THE MAN, I don't people would holding him in such high regard. Prime Marion and prime Kirilenko as great as they were, never were the man and never won anything on their own. We need an alpha dog, we need a guy to carry us because we're essentially starting from scratch here. We don't have coach, we have a GM, we don't have a Tim Duncan superstar player.

[VooDoo7]

Gardner awoke from his Soccer slumber to tweet out a couple hours ago that Wiggins, Parker and Embiid all in town for workouts this week.

So obviously CLE didn't give Embiid a promise, eh?

Since some here think he's 100% the best prospect in this draft, and a no-brainer, does that mean that CLE may have seen something in his physical that they didn't like?

[trwi7]

I put value in those stats that Baddy put up regarding the last ten games. Many times talented young guys don't start putting things together until the second half of their rookie (or frosh) season. I want to see whose learning curve is ascending, as those type of guys then many times really breakout the next year.

See sig

See his last 10 games as a freshman.

17.6 points
5.9 rebounds
3.5 assists
3.1 steals
3.7 turnovers
.534 TS%

[breakchains]

I may dislike Melo more than almost anyone, but if you took Melo's game and put a different brain in him - one that made him less of a douche and open to playing within a team concept that didn't consist of him getting isos every possession - he would be an All-Time great player. As an individual basketball talent - he is already a historic player. It's the intangibles that have hurt him.

[Baddy Chuck]

Role players on contenders get overrated, Leonard is great and all but he's great because he's a cog in an existing championship machine. Put him on the Bucks or anywhere and ask him to be THE MAN, I don't people would holding him in such high regard.

I think that's wildly debatable.

[worthlessBucks]

Since Saric has no workouts, should we assume he was promised at some early point in the process?

[MrPerfect1]

There's a huge difference between being the third/fourth wheel that Marion was and what Melo is as well. Marion was a very good player, but Melo is certainly on another level.

How is Melo on another level? The stats do not suggest it and certainly Melo's playoff "success" does not suggest too much.

Even if Marion is a 3rd Wheel on a Champion Caliber team, is there anything in the NBA to suggest that isnt true for Melo? He obviously isn't a 1st Option on a Championship Caliber team and am skeptical he could even be a #2. His most likely role on a Champ team like MIA is as a Floor Spacer like Bosh, who accordingly is a 3rd Option.

[Baddy Chuck]

There's a huge difference between being the third/fourth wheel that Marion was and what Melo is as well. Marion was a very good player, but Melo is certainly on another level.

How is Melo on another level? The stats do not suggest it and certainly Melo's playoff "success" does not suggest too much.

Even if Marion is a 3rd Wheel on a Champion Caliber team, is there anything in the NBA to suggest that isnt true for Melo? He obviously isn't a 1st Option on a Championship Caliber team and am skeptical he could even be a #2. His most likely role on a Champ team like MIA is as a Floor Spacer like Bosh, who accordingly is a 3rd Option.

Melo is a go to scorer that the defenses attach to like Marion never saw in his NBA career and yet his scoring stats are still exceptional. Marion simply did not have the ability to do what Melo does and where he changed the game in other areas, it isn't to the level that Melo's scoring is impact wise. Melo may not be a #1 on a team that will win it all, but he is certainly in the range that say Stoudemire was in Phoenix compared to where Marion was.