ImageImage

'14 Draft Thread - Now With a Poll: VOTE OR DIE.

Moderators: MickeyDavis, paulpressey25

Who would you pick?

Wiggins
84
31%
Parker
113
42%
Randle
2
1%
Exum
20
7%
Smart
4
1%
Embiid
39
14%
Gordon
1
0%
Saric
1
0%
LaVine
4
1%
Other
2
1%
 
Total votes: 270

bullox
Banned User
Posts: 1,850
And1: 522
Joined: Jul 23, 2009
Location: Its a dry heat they say.

Re: '14 Draft Thread - Now With a Poll: VOTE OR DIE. 

Post#2781 » by bullox » Mon Jan 6, 2014 9:19 am

cinematographer wrote:
skones wrote:Then where are Wiggins "bust" red flags? That's my point.

For the sake of argument, let's say Wiggins does everything Smart does, but only worse.

Smart will never be 6'8" with a 7' wingspan and a 90" vertical and quickness flowing out from all directions.


Physical attributes are amazing gifts. They can't be taught or improved upon (other than strength). But the leadership/mental toughness aspect is arguably the biggest factor when you talk about franchise changing talents, hall of fame talents. I haven't seen a ton of Wiggins but from the little I've seen, he doesn't seem like that kind of guy. Smart seems like a real leader. A guy that people will listen to in the huddle. A guy that people would rally around.

I want to see the end of the season/tournament before I make any concrete decisions but I always lean towards the headstrong player over the indifferent athlete.
User avatar
cinematographer
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,754
And1: 1,697
Joined: Feb 22, 2013

Re: '14 Draft Thread - Now With a Poll: VOTE OR DIE. 

Post#2782 » by cinematographer » Mon Jan 6, 2014 9:53 am

skones wrote:Smart's size and physicality puts him on an entirely different plane than Flynn. Completely different playing styles as a result. In playing style, Mason isn't a bad comparison, although Wiggins would have more versatility on the defensive end because of his size. As far as floor, I'd be looking at Rodney Stuckey.

Size and physicality means nothing if he can't stick with the players he's being assigned to guard.

Yes, he plays differently than Flynn, but that won't really matter when he hits "bust".

As I've stated before, I'm not a huge Smart fan, but you're acting like Smart has all of these flags whereas other players do not.

Marcus Smart is a combo guard who can't do the chief job of either guard position and his limited upside.

He can't shoot. He can't run an offense. He'll have trouble defending. He can't do anything as well as what Wiggins can do in transition. Smart's red flags are far more severe than any other of the top prospects.

I mean, ****. He's shooting .315 from three after shooting just .290 last year. That's a red flag that's gone supernova.
User avatar
cinematographer
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,754
And1: 1,697
Joined: Feb 22, 2013

Re: '14 Draft Thread - Now With a Poll: VOTE OR DIE. 

Post#2783 » by cinematographer » Mon Jan 6, 2014 9:55 am

bullox wrote:I want to see the end of the season/tournament before I make any concrete decisions but I always lean towards the headstrong player over the indifferent athlete.

All I'll say is while I respect Thomas Robinson and Marcus Smart, if I'm picking in the top-5, I'm not trying to get on base with a bunt.
User avatar
AussieBuck
RealGM
Posts: 42,341
And1: 20,845
Joined: May 10, 2006
Location: Bucks in 7?
 

Re: '14 Draft Thread - Now With a Poll: VOTE OR DIE. 

Post#2784 » by AussieBuck » Mon Jan 6, 2014 9:57 am

Keeping in mind that I haven't seen Smart play yet but from what I'm reading he's not a great athlete. How many modern star guards haven't been great athletes? I know Harden was miscast due to his changes in pace and slightly heavy appearance, Brandon Roy I guess but he was supremely skilled.
emunney wrote:
We need a man shaped like a chicken nugget with the shot selection of a 21st birthday party.


GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
if you combined jabari parker, royal ivey, a shrimp and a ball sack youd have javon carter
bullox
Banned User
Posts: 1,850
And1: 522
Joined: Jul 23, 2009
Location: Its a dry heat they say.

Re: '14 Draft Thread - Now With a Poll: VOTE OR DIE. 

Post#2785 » by bullox » Mon Jan 6, 2014 10:17 am

AussieBuck wrote:Keeping in mind that I haven't seen Smart play yet but from what I'm reading he's not a great athlete. How many modern star guards haven't been great athletes? I know Harden was miscast due to his changes in pace and slightly heavy appearance, Brandon Roy I guess but he was supremely skilled.


He's had a few highlights where he's had a huge block or a nice finish on an alley oop, but he's nowhere close to Wiggins athletically. Not very many people are, and that's the reason Wiggins is rated as high as he is. Smart's closer to Parker athletically without the size or shooting ability.

Smart also has quite a bit of a leg up on Wolters athletically. Granted you would want to see quite a bit more out of the top of the draft. But Wolters certainly has a place in this league and obviously deserved to be drafted higher than he was. Smart will clearly be a better pro than Wolters for other reasons than athleticism, but let's keep it all in perspective here. Jason Kidd wasn't an all world athlete coming out of Cal, but he's a likely hall of fame player.

I'm not saying I would take Smart if I was sitting 3 or 4 in the draft. I'm not really a big Smart fan. But I think he will be a solid pro. Not top of the draft solid, not franchise changing solid, but solid.
User avatar
Baddy Chuck
RealGM
Posts: 51,335
And1: 25,527
Joined: Apr 18, 2006
 

Re: '14 Draft Thread - Now With a Poll: VOTE OR DIE. 

Post#2786 » by Baddy Chuck » Mon Jan 6, 2014 10:18 am

Smart's really not a bad athlete, especially vertically. I still think his comparison for better or worse is Tyreke Evans.
John Henson wrote:This lady just asked me who I play for and I said the Milwaukee Bucks, she quickly replied “oh the highschool across the street?”
User avatar
jr lucosa
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 12,048
And1: 1,151
Joined: Jul 11, 2008
       

Re: '14 Draft Thread - Now With a Poll: VOTE OR DIE. 

Post#2787 » by jr lucosa » Mon Jan 6, 2014 10:21 am

I doubt Smart busts, I think he's one of the safer picks of the draft if you see him for what he is. He will have an impact on the game defensively on the next level and when he's hot on offense you can feed him the ball. He isn't a PG and I can't see him becoming a star, it's really doing him a disservice talking about him with the other top prospects in this draft, he isn't there, but for teams who aren't looking for a boom/bust pick drafting in the 6-10 range I think he could be a very good role player who can defend multiple positions.
skones
RealGM
Posts: 37,108
And1: 17,267
Joined: Jul 20, 2004

Re: '14 Draft Thread - Now With a Poll: VOTE OR DIE. 

Post#2788 » by skones » Mon Jan 6, 2014 11:03 am

cinematographer wrote:
skones wrote:Smart's size and physicality puts him on an entirely different plane than Flynn. Completely different playing styles as a result. In playing style, Mason isn't a bad comparison, although Wiggins would have more versatility on the defensive end because of his size. As far as floor, I'd be looking at Rodney Stuckey.

Size and physicality means nothing if he can't stick with the players he's being assigned to guard.

Yes, he plays differently than Flynn, but that won't really matter when he hits "bust".

As I've stated before, I'm not a huge Smart fan, but you're acting like Smart has all of these flags whereas other players do not.

Marcus Smart is a combo guard who can't do the chief job of either guard position and his limited upside.

He can't shoot. He can't run an offense. He'll have trouble defending. He can't do anything as well as what Wiggins can do in transition. Smart's red flags are far more severe than any other of the top prospects.

I mean, ****. He's shooting .315 from three after shooting just .290 last year. That's a red flag that's gone supernova.


Few players in the NBA can do what Gerald Green can do in transition too. Ultimately it's not something I'm going to draft a guy for......

With that being said, if you want to focus on his three point shooting that's fine. It just shows you're ignoring other major factors to make a point. For example, his overall field goal percentage jumped from 40.5% to 46.7% which I'd call a significant increase.

He's finishing around the hoop at an elite level this season, and he's getting there at a clip higher than Wiggins despite all of these physical advantages that Wiggins has. What's truly astonishing is that Smart has 54 field goal attempts at the rim this season in comparison to Wiggins 46 and is finishing at a nearly identical clip. (77.8% for Smart vs. 78.2% for Wiggins) I think it's also safe to assume that Smart's attempts are under more duress than are Wiggins due to a variety of factors, namely Wiggins being assisted on 50.8% of his made field goals vs. 41.6% of Smarts.

As far as his defense is concerned, I'm not nearly as worried about it as some here seem to be. Where he lacks the quickness he'll make up for it with his size and length once he becomes more familiar with defensive principles. He's also one of the few players in this draft who WANTS to lock down the guy he's defending, and often times, that's half the battle. Some of you are acting like he's slow as molasses laterally. That's just not the case. He gets caught gambling far too much, that'll need to be shored up.

As far as running an offense, keep in mind that this is only his second season in which he's actually played the point guard position. Does he have a way to go? Absolutely. However, his intangibles give cause for a legitimate belief that he'll get it together.
User avatar
AussieBuck
RealGM
Posts: 42,341
And1: 20,845
Joined: May 10, 2006
Location: Bucks in 7?
 

Re: '14 Draft Thread - Now With a Poll: VOTE OR DIE. 

Post#2789 » by AussieBuck » Mon Jan 6, 2014 11:04 am

Thanks guys.

I'm getting that feeling I had last season when I got alerted to Trey Burke with Jordan Adams where I'm wondering why he isn't seen as much of a big deal. Is it because it's all the about the top few guys? I'm not even seeing him in most top tens or so.
emunney wrote:
We need a man shaped like a chicken nugget with the shot selection of a 21st birthday party.


GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
if you combined jabari parker, royal ivey, a shrimp and a ball sack youd have javon carter
Ayt
RealGM
Posts: 59,227
And1: 15,062
Joined: Jun 27, 2005

Re: '14 Draft Thread - Now With a Poll: VOTE OR DIE. 

Post#2790 » by Ayt » Mon Jan 6, 2014 12:18 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
randy84 wrote:Embiid for me. He was getting double teamed every time he touched the ball and was still very efficient. I especially like a big man that can hit free throws in pressure situation.


Yeah, watching Embiid on DVR now. He's the total package. His defensive awareness and ability to step out and switch is excellent.

On offense he has an uncanny ability to find and feed the open shooter when he's double teamed in the post. And most plays he's now double or triple teamed.


I honestly don't know how anyone can have other players over him in this draft.
Ayt
RealGM
Posts: 59,227
And1: 15,062
Joined: Jun 27, 2005

Re: '14 Draft Thread - Now With a Poll: VOTE OR DIE. 

Post#2791 » by Ayt » Mon Jan 6, 2014 12:40 pm

AussieBuck wrote:Keeping in mind that I haven't seen Smart play yet but from what I'm reading he's not a great athlete. How many modern star guards haven't been great athletes? I know Harden was miscast due to his changes in pace and slightly heavy appearance, Brandon Roy I guess but he was supremely skilled.


Smart is a beast physically. DX has his measurements from last year at 6-2 barefoot, 226 pounds. He's not super quick like a Rose or Westbrook, but he also has a gigantic size advantage on those guys so they are completely different athletically.

He's much more in the Baron Davis type mold athletically, and, like Davis, he can work in the post against smaller guards.

You'll like him a lot defensively. His potential on that end is sky high. He can be overwhelming.

This play from his most recent game took some athleticism.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXtAbg1dIv4[/youtube]
msiris
RealGM
Posts: 11,014
And1: 2,267
Joined: Jul 25, 2005
Location: Central Wisconsin

Re: '14 Draft Thread - Now With a Poll: VOTE OR DIE. 

Post#2792 » by msiris » Mon Jan 6, 2014 2:24 pm

I really like Ryan Anderson from UCLA. Bucks need to get another pick in the early 20s.
Ride the tank
User avatar
breakchains
General Manager
Posts: 8,722
And1: 2,708
Joined: Jun 23, 2013

Re: '14 Draft Thread - Now With a Poll: VOTE OR DIE. 

Post#2793 » by breakchains » Mon Jan 6, 2014 2:29 pm

Smart is a very good athlete. I just wouldn't want him unless we committed to letting Giannis or someone else run the offense (not Knight). I don't think he's a natural PG, and I personally am philosophically against the shoot-first green-light PGs for how I construct my team. If he played off the ball, with a PG who could defend other positions, I would be open to taking him (after the top 4/5).
User avatar
machu46
RealGM
Posts: 11,045
And1: 4,384
Joined: Jun 28, 2012
Location: DC
       

Re: '14 Draft Thread - Now With a Poll: VOTE OR DIE. 

Post#2794 » by machu46 » Mon Jan 6, 2014 3:35 pm

msiris wrote:I really like Ryan Anderson from UCLA. Bucks need to get another pick in the early 20s.


Who will he be able to guard in the NBA though? He makes Jabari Parker look like a good defender.
trwi7 wrote:**** me deep, Giannis. ****. Me. Deep.
User avatar
ChuckBros4Life
Pro Prospect
Posts: 838
And1: 172
Joined: Aug 31, 2013
Location: Miroslav's Beard

Re: '14 Draft Thread - Now With a Poll: VOTE OR DIE. 

Post#2795 » by ChuckBros4Life » Mon Jan 6, 2014 5:46 pm

machu46 wrote:
msiris wrote:I really like Ryan Anderson from UCLA. Bucks need to get another pick in the early 20s.


Who will he be able to guard in the NBA though? He makes Jabari Parker look like a good defender.


I assume you guys mean Kyle Anderson, but yah. I'd take a flier on him early second, but not first round. He's got a very limited ceiling.
"I dont respect West Coast point guards; theyre too Hollywood for me." - Brandon Jennings
"Everything's peaches and cream." - Monta Ellis
User avatar
paulpressey25
Senior Mod - Bucks
Senior Mod - Bucks
Posts: 62,732
And1: 29,950
Joined: Oct 27, 2002
     

Re: '14 Draft Thread - Now With a Poll: VOTE OR DIE. 

Post#2796 » by paulpressey25 » Mon Jan 6, 2014 5:52 pm

Smart is going to be a good pro.

He reminds me a bit of Fat Lever in the sense that he's a guy who can do a lot of everything, but at the same time I don't see him being the type of guy that takes over games with a 10-year mega all-star career.

His defense is very good. I think he's physically strong enough to guard SG's, even though he'll give up some size.
In depth discussions here - shorter stuff on Twitter

https://twitter.com/paulpressey25
User avatar
engelmartin
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,821
And1: 2,394
Joined: Jun 03, 2013
         

Re: '14 Draft Thread - Now With a Poll: VOTE OR DIE. 

Post#2797 » by engelmartin » Mon Jan 6, 2014 5:54 pm

Pretty fun video of a dunk off between Smart and Randle. Randle looks extremely coordinated and under control when he goes up. The combination of strength and body control from both guys is impressive.

Smart's more of the guy who will just go right into you and through you then over you, but I wouldn't call him unathletic. Just has a real knack for initiating contacting.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuyD3JOwnug[/youtube]
KnicksGod wrote:Middleton probably the most underrated player in NBA History
User avatar
VooDoo7
RealGM
Posts: 25,956
And1: 22,287
Joined: Jan 14, 2012
Location: WI

Re: '14 Draft Thread - Now With a Poll: VOTE OR DIE. 

Post#2798 » by VooDoo7 » Mon Jan 6, 2014 6:03 pm

Smart and Randle. Two guys I'd be thrilled with in any other draft, but not this one.
UWM_Brew_Buck
Analyst
Posts: 3,130
And1: 898
Joined: Jan 26, 2009
Location: Not in the EMS Building
     

Re: '14 Draft Thread - Now With a Poll: VOTE OR DIE. 

Post#2799 » by UWM_Brew_Buck » Mon Jan 6, 2014 6:05 pm

I just changed my vote to Embiid after picking Parker early on. I thought Parker defensive woes could be covered up but he looked terrible in the post against ND. Parker is still a great prospect and I'd love to have him on this team but you have to nitpick on #1 players. Picking Embiid right now, not because of Parker's woes but because he has the highest ceiling when you factor in offense and defense.
UWM_Brew_Buck
Analyst
Posts: 3,130
And1: 898
Joined: Jan 26, 2009
Location: Not in the EMS Building
     

Re: '14 Draft Thread - Now With a Poll: VOTE OR DIE. 

Post#2800 » by UWM_Brew_Buck » Mon Jan 6, 2014 6:06 pm

VooDoo7 wrote:Smart and Randle. Two guys I'd be thrilled with in any other draft, but not this one.


Yep top 3/4 is very important.

Return to Milwaukee Bucks