The Official Playoffs Thread

[Newz]

Awesome game by the Lakers supporting cast.

Agreed.

I think that the Lakers, Magic and Nuggets as teams are just so far ahead of the Cavs as far as overall talent it is ridiculous.

Point being made tonight when Kobe has a pretty average at best game (Solid, but 7 TOs is way too much) where he just gives the ball up a bunch and those guys make plays. Perhaps this will encourage 'The Mamba' to shoot less and get his teammates involved more often.

[lawrybeard]

I hope LeFlop watched tonight. He may have learned a thing or ten.

[Newz]

I hope LeFlop watched tonight. He may have learned a thing or ten.

Yeah.

I bet he learned that he needs to get some better players on his team if he ever wants to win something.

[lawrybeard]

I hope LeFlop watched tonight. He may have learned a thing or ten.

Yeah.

I bet he learned that he needs to get some better players on his team if he ever wants to win something.

I didn't realise he plays on a team? I'll have to keep an eye out for other guys on offense in the next game.

[Ayt]

Awesome game by the Lakers supporting cast.

Agreed.

I think that the Lakers, Magic and Nuggets as teams are just so far ahead of the Cavs as far as overall talent it is ridiculous.

Point being made tonight when Kobe has a pretty average at best game (Solid, but 7 TOs is way too much) where he just gives the ball up a bunch and those guys make plays. Perhaps this will encourage 'The Mamba' to shoot less and get his teammates involved more often.

They constantly ran the offense through Gasol as the first option. Bynum also got plenty of good opportunities. Odom is actually useful offensively when things are played from inside out because he is so great at cutting to the rim and crashing the glass.

Basically, the offense stagnates when it becomes mainly Kobe shooting pull up jumpers. I actually enjoyed watching them play tonight, which hasn't been true of that team for most of the playoffs. They have the best frontcourt in the league. Use it.

[paul]

Awesome game by the Lakers supporting cast.

Agreed.

I think that the Lakers, Magic and Nuggets as teams are just so far ahead of the Cavs as far as overall talent it is ridiculous.

Point being made tonight when Kobe has a pretty average at best game (Solid, but 7 TOs is way too much) where he just gives the ball up a bunch and those guys make plays. Perhaps this will encourage 'The Mamba' to shoot less and get his teammates involved more often.

They constantly ran the offense through Gasol as the first option. Bynum also got plenty of good opportunities. Odom is actually useful offensively when things are played from inside out because he is so great at cutting to the rim and crashing the glass.

Basically, the offense stagnates when it becomes mainly Kobe shooting pull up jumpers. I actually enjoyed watching them play tonight, which hasn't been true of that team for most of the playoffs. They have the best frontcourt in the league. Use it.

The Lakers finally did tonight what the Cavs need to do to have any hope whatsoever of pulling out their series, played some team ball. We all know the other players on their teams aren't as good as Kobe or Lebron, but if you want any hope of winning a 7 game series the other players HAVE to contribute.

Disagree on the 'strongest frontcourt in the league' comment Ayt but only because Bynum has been complete rubbish since he came back. On paper they certainly do but in reality Bynum needs to step up huge for that to be the case.

[Newz]

I would rather have Dwight Howard and any two guys over the Lakers front court... But I would say that they are a close second.

[Ayt]

I would rather have Dwight Howard and any two guys over the Lakers front court... But I would say that they are a close second.

I probably should have said rotation. Pau, Bynum, Odom is awesome if used properly.

[Newz]

I would rather have Dwight Howard and any two guys over the Lakers front court... But I would say that they are a close second.

I probably should have said rotation. Pau, Bynum, Odom is awesome if used properly.

Agreed. Three very talented players, especially Gasol who continues to impress and seems to have got over his playoff woes of the past.

[lawrybeard]

You know how they say that superstars make their team-mates better?

Nevermind...

[paul]

I would rather have Dwight Howard and any two guys over the Lakers front court... But I would say that they are a close second.

I probably should have said rotation. Pau, Bynum, Odom is awesome if used properly.

Agreed. Three very talented players, especially Gasol who continues to impress and seems to have got over his playoff woes of the past.

Yep, but Bynum is listed in that trio on reputation alone right now.

His playoff numbers right now are -

17 games

6.6 ppg
3.8 rpg
0.3 apg
0.9 TOpg
1.0 bpg
51% FG%

Yet he is still somehow being talked about as being part of the best frontcourt in the league, like I said it's on reputation alone right now. Man until I looked I didn't actually realise his numbers were THAT bad. Dwight will straight up murder him if the Magic get through.

Odom had been noticably absent for the 10 or so games before tonight as well.
On paper they have an ubelievable frontcourt rotation, in practice they have a PF who's been playing excellent ball, the worst starting C left in the playoff race by a very very long way and a reserve PF who's been struggling to find his place before tonight.
Those guys need to step it up as that's the one advantage they should have against everyone else.

[Ayt]

Agreed.

I think that the Lakers, Magic and Nuggets as teams are just so far ahead of the Cavs as far as overall talent it is ridiculous.

Point being made tonight when Kobe has a pretty average at best game (Solid, but 7 TOs is way too much) where he just gives the ball up a bunch and those guys make plays. Perhaps this will encourage 'The Mamba' to shoot less and get his teammates involved more often.

They constantly ran the offense through Gasol as the first option. Bynum also got plenty of good opportunities. Odom is actually useful offensively when things are played from inside out because he is so great at cutting to the rim and crashing the glass.

Basically, the offense stagnates when it becomes mainly Kobe shooting pull up jumpers. I actually enjoyed watching them play tonight, which hasn't been true of that team for most of the playoffs. They have the best frontcourt in the league. Use it.

The Lakers finally did tonight what the Cavs need to do to have any hope whatsoever of pulling out their series, played some team ball. We all know the other players on their teams aren't as good as Kobe or Lebron, but if you want any hope of winning a 7 game series the other players HAVE to contribute.

Disagree on the 'strongest frontcourt in the league' comment Ayt but only because Bynum has been complete rubbish since he came back. On paper they certainly do but in reality Bynum needs to step up huge for that to be the case.

I think the main problem with the Cavs is that they don't have a guy like Pau that you can run the offense through. You can run plays for other guys to get shots, but LeBron is the only guy with any serious ability to create for others. Should they be running pick and rolls with Mo and AV or Z? Should they try to post Z against Dwight? Should they post West more? LeBron is the only guy you can consistently go to to create offense for others.

On the Lakers, Pau can be a massive part of the gameplan as a facilitator out of the post as he was tonight. Frankly, its been a joke in this series for Pau since none of the Denver defenders can stop him in the post one on one. They are great help defenders, but on the ball they are fairly weak. They had to double Pau a lot tonight unless they wanted to see him back his man down for an easy point blank hook shot. The Lakers should look to the post every single time down the court.

[paul]

Agreed, good post.

I wouldn't be posting Z too often, he's near on useless in the post unless it's a jumper. The definitely need to get back to some pick-and-roll and pick-and-pop action with him though imo.

[Wise1]

You know how they say that superstars make their team-mates better?

Nevermind...

LeSpin.

[Ayt]

You know how they say that superstars make their team-mates better?

Nevermind...

Are you talking about Pau? I agree. He was great facilitating out of the post.

[lawrybeard]

You know how they say that superstars make their team-mates better?

Nevermind...

Are you talking about Pau? I agree. He was great facilitating out of the post.

The whole team. But Pau is a good example. Just look what happened to his fg% once he started playing with Kobe:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gasolpa01.html

[Wise1]

You know how they say that superstars make their team-mates better?

Nevermind...

Are you talking about Pau? I agree. He was great facilitating out of the post.

The whole team. But Pau is a good example. Just look what happened to his fg% once he started playing with Kobe:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gasolpa01.html

Not surprising that Pau's fg% has improved dramatically playing with Bryant. We've already seen the improvement in LePrince, Wade, and Melo after playing with Kobe in the olympics. Hell, Kobe Bryant may be more pivitol in the Cavaliers 21 game improvement than the addition of Mo Williams.

[El Duderino]

The Lakers finally did tonight what the Cavs need to do to have any hope whatsoever of pulling out their series, played some team ball. We all know the other players on their teams aren't as good as Kobe or Lebron, but if you want any hope of winning a 7 game series the other players HAVE to contribute.

I said the same thing yesterday, LeBron has stopped passing to much in the 4th quarters. He's at his best when he's both scoring a lot and passing when multiple defenders are collapsing on him. In the fourth quarters though IMO James has relied to much on taking the shot regardless if he's in the paint surrounded by two wing players and Howard. Even if guys like Mo/West are cold from the perimeter, James has to still pass out to them if they are wide open because nearly the whole defense collapsing on him. The missed shots and turnovers are largely coming from to much traffic in the lane to get hands on the ball and forcing James into taking very tough shots.

LeBron IMO is the best player in the game, but even as great as he is, spending the fourth quarters of games trying to score nearly every possession with 2-3-4 defenders in your face including the 7 foot DPY is asking James to consistently make one really tough shot after another. That's very hard to do in one game, much less game after game.

[Newz]

It is a lot easier to make Gasol, Bynum and Odom better than it is to make Mo, Z and Varaejo better. Why? Because those first three guys are very good players regardless.

Gasol has been a 20/10 guy before, I don't think he really needs Kobe's help to be an all-star level player.

If you really want to talk about making guys better... How about making Mo Williams better? A guy who no one thought would ever come close to an all-star game and getting him there? Look at how well Z played this season, he is on the wrong side of thirty and can barely even move anymore after having so many surgeries.

LeBron's teammates are crumbling under the pressure of the playoffs. They are missing the same wide open shots that he has been getting them all year long. LeBron has to try and take over, he has to try and carry them offensively because a majority of them are shooting an awful field goal percentage and not coming through when it counts.

Point made:

Mo Williams: 32%
Z: 42%

Mo and Z were there best players, besides LeBron, during the regular season... And look at how they are producing. I don't care if you are playing with Kareem, Jordan, Bird, Magic or yes, even the great Kobe Bryant... You aren't going to win a series with your second and third best players playing like garbage... And they are getting open shots, just like during the regular season, but they are missing them.

[Wise1]

Perhaps then Lebron should lead like Kobe. Reign in his game and force his others to step it up. Mo Williams, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Delonte West, Anderson Varejao, Joe Smith, Ben Wallace, Wally Szczerbiak, Sasha Pavlavic, and Daniel Gibson are all good to very good players with both continuity and experience. This "team" won 66 games this season, best record in the league. There's absolutely no reason for Lebron to turn his team into a one man show.

Brilliant tactical manuever by Bryant and Jackson to suffer through their others controlling the first half. The functionally horrible Laker others responded because Kobe gave them less. By the fourth quarter, when the Nuggets were still worried about Kobe, the others were lathered and ready to help bring home the victory.

Basketball is more than just size, speed, and skill. It's a thinking man's game as well. An athletic chess match. Lebron hasn't solved the Orlando puzzle. For everything that he is physically, Lebron still has a lot to learn about the thinking part of the game. When Lebron learns how to manage his game better against the best competition, he'll take the next evolutionary step towards becoming perhaps the best player in the game. Billups, while not as talented as Bryant and James, was and is a master at this. Billups will lull a team to sleep for three quarters and then throw daggers at them in the fourth quarter where most games are won.

Michael Jordan evolved from a mega-scoring do it all to a cerebral player that took less athletic risks while depending more on guile and experience while demanding more from his teammates (going so far as punching Steve Kerr in the face in practice). Jordan is the ultimate. Kobe has similarly evolved from a showstopping athletic marvel and perhaps aloof, to a guy that thinks the game through and makes adjustments on the fly to get wins (frequently switching defensive assignments to disrupt what the opponents best card of the moment...defending Billups, Anthony, and Smith...whoever is hot) and coaches his teammates from championship experience.

I agree with Jeff Van Gundy's take when he says no one outplays Lebron James for the first 45 minutes of the game. The implication there is that he needs to learn how to finish. Not dominating the game for the first 45 minutes may be the best strategy against certain teams on certain nights. He has to allow the others to play to their potential for the first 45 and THEN get the ball to him to make the game winning plays in crunchtime. On the same nights if he doesn't have it, the others are involved and confident and can step up and make winning plays for him. We know that Mo Williams is capable of hitting big time shots.