'14 Draft Thread pt 2: vote again? VOTE AGAIN.

[Matches Malone]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/brewhoop/status/432624820287578113[/tweet]

What do you guys think of that comparison? It might be somewhat accurate, but honestly, that doesn't sound like a legitimate franchise changer, which is what we need.

[MiltownHawkeye]

I don't know why you're even bringing Hank Aaron up. It's a stupid comparison for a litany of reasons.

Your posts are perfect examples of a mindset that helps keep racism alive. Just because it's illegal to discriminate against black people now and we've made racial progress doesn't mean it's right to forget about history and stop trying to see things from their perspective. You don't see why black people might get upset, especially in the heat of the moment, by racial abuse in this day and age because it is something you have never had to deal with. And no, getting called whitey by a black person is not the same as a white person calling a black person the N-word. In a racially equal world it would be, but it's not.

So be as sanctimonious as you want about a 20-year old black kid reacting negatively to receiving racial insults, realize that you are seriously lacking in perspective. If Smart beat the **** out of the guy or had him jumped or something than obviously that would be out of line, but basically what you want is for him to say "sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me" instead of being a human with feelings and reacting.

I don't want to continue an argument about this here but these things had to be said.

Yes, I will be sanctimonious. I expect maturity and rational thought from an adult. You expect physical violence in response to name calling. And it's not so much Smart's actions rather how his actions are being defended. 'He called him a naughty word, therefore he was in his right to go after him'. That is the same mindset that sends people to the grave, to the hospital, and to prison in this country every day. The same mindset that exists in the countries our soldiers are fighting, where vengeance always must be doled out. He insulted my tribe/religion/culture---therefore he must be dealt with. If that is the kind of country you want to live in, be prepared to live with the consequences. The kind of country that picks and chooses what someone can be offended by.

I bring up Hank Aaron because he is an example of dealing with actual racism with class. You can find numerous other athletes and civil rights leaders who did the same. Resorting to violence is never 'smart'. It's the realm of fools, children, and those without any other option.

No one ever said it was "smart" for Smart to do what he did. What he did was human. Of course the smartest thing to do is to just ignore him, but what you're basically saying is that he should be a robot without feelings or it reflects poorly on his chharacter. You don't have the slightest clue about how it feels as a black person to get racial insults hurled at you. Your character judgments are made from a place of privilege because white people have never systematically been made to feel inferior or like they don't belong.

I didn't once espouse violence or even retribution, those are ridiculous strawman arguments you're putting in my mouth. I'm saying that if a middle-aged white man wants to call a black kid something racial, I'm not going to blame him for getting in his face or shoving him. The former is being a terrible, hateful person. The latter is reacting to what is possibly to worst and most insensitive thing you can say to someone of his demographic. You find it more appropriate to go after the black kid because he's not conforming to YOUR perception of how a black person should act in the fact of racial abuse.

Besides, how do you know Hank Aaron NEVER reacted negatively to someone yelling a racial slur at him? Was there an HD camera following him around his entire life that I never heard about? Seems awful presumptuous don't you think? Not to mention that was a completely different time with different societal norms. Black people had to kowtow to white people or get treated unfairly or worse. Such a **** comparison.

[SupremeHustle]

So, let's hold a 20 year old kid to the standard of the winner of a Presidential Medal of Freedom, rather than holding a middle-aged man to the standard of a decent (not good or great, but DECENT) human being. Let's blame Marcus for not going all Dr. King on Orr, rather than calling out Orr for saying something inflammatory.

You don't see how silly that looks?

But we are holding the old man accountable. Nobody is defending him. Everybody realizes that he is an a-hole. The issue here is that nobody is holding Smart accountable. You cannot resort to verbal abuse with physical violence.I don't care how old you are. This is a common value that we accept in our society. Racism does not give you a green light to put your hands on another person. Like I said to MiltownHawkeye, if you want to live amongst a culture of vengeance, be prepared for the consequences down the road.

PP or MD, can we lock this one up and get a new draft thread going? This one is starting to reek.

[Turk Nowitzki]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/brewhoop/status/432624820287578113[/tweet]

What do you guys think of that comparison? It might be somewhat accurate, but honestly, that doesn't sound like a legitimate franchise changer, which is what we need.

To me, Tobias Harris is the absolute floor of what Parker could be.

[SupremeHustle]

I don't know why you're even bringing Hank Aaron up. It's a stupid comparison for a litany of reasons.

Your posts are perfect examples of a mindset that helps keep racism alive. Just because it's illegal to discriminate against black people now and we've made racial progress doesn't mean it's right to forget about history and stop trying to see things from their perspective. You don't see why black people might get upset, especially in the heat of the moment, by racial abuse in this day and age because it is something you have never had to deal with. And no, getting called whitey by a black person is not the same as a white person calling a black person the N-word. In a racially equal world it would be, but it's not.

So be as sanctimonious as you want about a 20-year old black kid reacting negatively to receiving racial insults, realize that you are seriously lacking in perspective. If Smart beat the **** out of the guy or had him jumped or something than obviously that would be out of line, but basically what you want is for him to say "sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me" instead of being a human with feelings and reacting.

I don't want to continue an argument about this here but these things had to be said.

Yes, I will be sanctimonious. I expect maturity and rational thought from an adult. You expect physical violence in response to name calling. And it's not so much Smart's actions rather how his actions are being defended. 'He called him a naughty word, therefore he was in his right to go after him'. That is the same mindset that sends people to the grave, to the hospital, and to prison in this country every day. The same mindset that exists in the countries our soldiers are fighting, where vengeance always must be doled out. He insulted my tribe/religion/culture---therefore he must be dealt with. If that is the kind of country you want to live in, be prepared to live with the consequences. The kind of country that picks and chooses what someone can be offended by.

I bring up Hank Aaron because he is an example of dealing with actual racism with class. You can find numerous other athletes and civil rights leaders who did the same. Resorting to violence is never 'smart'. It's the realm of fools, children, and those without any other option.

No one ever said it was "smart" for Smart to do what he did. What he did was human. Of course the smartest thing to do is to just ignore him, but what you're basically saying is that he should be a robot without feelings or it reflects poorly on his chharacter. You don't have the slightest clue about how it feels as a black person to get racial insults hurled at you. Your character judgments are made from a place of privilege because white people have never systematically been made to feel inferior or like they don't belong.

I didn't once espouse violence or even retribution, those are ridiculous strawman arguments you're putting in my mouth. I'm saying that if a middle-aged white man wants to call a black kid something racial, I'm not going to blame him for getting in his face or shoving him. The former is being a terrible, hateful person. The latter is reacting to what is possibly to worst and most insensitive thing you can say to someone of his demographic. You find it more appropriate to go after the black kid because he's not conforming to YOUR perception of how a black person should act in the fact of racial abuse.

Besides, how do you know Hank Aaron NEVER reacted negatively to someone yelling a racial slur at him? Was there an HD camera following him around his entire life that I never heard about? Seems awful presumptuous don't you think? Not to mention that was a completely different time with different societal norms. Black people had to kowtow to white people or get treated unfairly or worse. Such a **** comparison.

Bravo.

[Turk Nowitzki]

Both sides have made their arguments right or wrong. Can we talk about basketball again now please?

[Bernman]

Both sides have made their arguments right or wrong. Can we talk about basketball again now please?

Marcus Smart had a pretty good game last night.

[ReddWing]

No one ever said it was "smart" for Smart to do what he did. What he did was human. Of course the smartest thing to do is to just ignore him, but what you're basically saying is that he should be a robot without feelings or it reflects poorly on his chharacter. You don't have the slightest clue about how it feels as a black person to get racial insults hurled at you. Your character judgments are made from a place of privilege because white people have never systematically been made to feel inferior or like they don't belong.

I didn't once espouse violence or even retribution, those are ridiculous strawman arguments you're putting in my mouth. I'm saying that if a middle-aged white man wants to call a black kid something racial, I'm not going to blame him for getting in his face or shoving him. The former is being a terrible, hateful person. The latter is reacting to what is possibly to worst and most insensitive thing you can say to someone of his demographic. You find it more appropriate to go after the black kid because he's not conforming to YOUR perception of how a black person should act in the fact of racial abuse.

Well we agree on this then. I understand why Smart was angry but he needs to learn that flying off the handle isn't a good idea. I would say the same thing to Larry Sanders too. I'm not asking for a robot, rather an adult that rises above the stupidity. Defending his actions does nobody any good. The way I look at it, as I do in most of these circumstances, is that both people were wrong. Smart should be suspended and Orr should be banned from the arena for a set number of games. Re-read your post. You are giving one side an excuse and condemning the other.

You are crossing the line though when you imply that white people cannot ever be offended. That, in itself, is pretty racist. Not all white people live privileged lifestyles. Go tell this to the people who are bullied in high schools and often kill themselves, turn to drugs, end up in therapy, cut themselves, etc.. There isn't much different from being mocked for your race and being mercilessly bullied for your sexuality, weight/appearance, religion, etc. The world is cruel. Always has been, always will. Racial and cultural scoreboards never helped anyone. Everyone is subjected to some abuse, at some point in their life.

[Turk Nowitzki]

Both sides have made their arguments right or wrong. Can we talk about basketball again now please?

Marcus Smart had a pretty good game last night.

The ironic part in all this is that you're right, he was pretty good last night. Got to the line a ton.

[SupremeHustle]

No one ever said it was "smart" for Smart to do what he did. What he did was human. Of course the smartest thing to do is to just ignore him, but what you're basically saying is that he should be a robot without feelings or it reflects poorly on his chharacter. You don't have the slightest clue about how it feels as a black person to get racial insults hurled at you. Your character judgments are made from a place of privilege because white people have never systematically been made to feel inferior or like they don't belong.

I didn't once espouse violence or even retribution, those are ridiculous strawman arguments you're putting in my mouth. I'm saying that if a middle-aged white man wants to call a black kid something racial, I'm not going to blame him for getting in his face or shoving him. The former is being a terrible, hateful person. The latter is reacting to what is possibly to worst and most insensitive thing you can say to someone of his demographic. You find it more appropriate to go after the black kid because he's not conforming to YOUR perception of how a black person should act in the fact of racial abuse.

Well we agree on this then. I understand why Smart was angry but he needs to learn that flying off the handle isn't a good idea. I would say the same thing to Larry Sanders too. I'm not asking for a robot, rather an adult that rises above the stupidity. Defending his actions does nobody any good. The way I look at it, as I do in most of these circumstances, is that both people were wrong. Smart should be suspended and Orr should be banned from the arena for a set number of games. Re-read your post. You are giving one side an excuse and condemning the other.

You are crossing the line though when you imply that white people cannot ever be offended. That, in itself, is pretty racist. Not all white people live privileged lifestyles. Go tell this to the people who are bullied in high schools and often kill themselves, turn to drugs, end up in therapy, cut themselves, etc.. There isn't much different from being mocked for your race and being mercilessly bullied for your sexuality, weight/appearance, religion, etc. The world is cruel. Always has been, always will. Racial and cultural scoreboards never helped anyone. Everyone is subjected to some abuse, at some point in their life.

Just stop, man. Walk away.

[ReddWing]

Just stop, man. Walk away.

Sorry. I'll go back to my indoor pool in my mansion.

[Baddy Chuck]

Can't we all just get along?

[SupremeHustle]

Just stop, man. Walk away.

Sorry. I'll go back to my indoor pool in my mansion.

If anybody gets this cryptic post, please PM me.

[step3profit]

Just stop, man. Walk away.

Sorry. I'll go back to my indoor pool in my mansion.

If anybody gets this cryptic post, please PM me.

I desperately want this to be a factual statement.

edit: the pool part, not the PM part.

[cinematographer]

In other Marcus Smart news, he's now shooting .281 from three. In broken record news, Marcus Smart cannot shoot and has no business being in consideration anywhere near the top of the draft.

[paulpressey25]

DB---Why don't you start a new draft thread and clean poll?

Then I'll lock this one up. We are getting to 200 pages and have 30 days of voting. Plenty of new data to vote on.

thx
PP25

[giraldo5]

Just stop, man. Walk away.

Sorry. I'll go back to my indoor pool in my mansion.

If anybody gets this cryptic post, please PM me.

It's easy to understand.

Both have made your arguments can we please move on.

[ChuckBros4Life]

I'm 100% okay with what Smart did. People comparing this to what Artest did are just being ridiculous. This wasn't a full blown brawl. Smart didn't pop anyone, he just gave a shove to a POS fan. No one's ever gotten hurt over a little shove. The shove sent the message to the fan that he's not invincible as a fan and that he can't just say whatever racial slurs he wants. This situation also brought to attention an on going issue (apparently) of this fan doing this over and over in the past. I'm not saying Smart shouldn't be punished, but he stood up for himself in a way that didn't harm anyone and I'm pretty sure he reacts that same way 10/10 times. I'm disgusted by how no one on all the major networks are even trying to sympathize with Smart here. Whose the better person here? Jeff Orr or Smart? Obivously Smart.

1. Yes, because Orr possibly saying something offensive automatically means he's a worse person than Marcus Smart. That isn't judgmental at all.

2. Smart is lucky that the guy didn't get hurt. If Orr doesn't catch himself on his way down and is injured (which easily could have happened), Smart likely has a small lawsuit on his hands if Orr chose to pursue it.

3. Jalen Rose jumped to Smart's side on the NBA Pre-game show today. He said that if he were in Smart's position, he would have beaten the **** out of Orr so he should consider himself lucky that Smart was so under control.

He's has a history of doing stuff like this. He's like those guys that use twitter to insult people. Only difference is here, he actually got what was coming to him.

[ReddWing]

RealGm Handshake of Friendship and Racial Harmony

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMYpNjF9EB8[/youtube]

[machu46]

I'm 100% okay with what Smart did. People comparing this to what Artest did are just being ridiculous. This wasn't a full blown brawl. Smart didn't pop anyone, he just gave a shove to a POS fan. No one's ever gotten hurt over a little shove. The shove sent the message to the fan that he's not invincible as a fan and that he can't just say whatever racial slurs he wants. This situation also brought to attention an on going issue (apparently) of this fan doing this over and over in the past. I'm not saying Smart shouldn't be punished, but he stood up for himself in a way that didn't harm anyone and I'm pretty sure he reacts that same way 10/10 times. I'm disgusted by how no one on all the major networks are even trying to sympathize with Smart here. Whose the better person here? Jeff Orr or Smart? Obivously Smart.

1. Yes, because Orr possibly saying something offensive automatically means he's a worse person than Marcus Smart. That isn't judgmental at all.

2. Smart is lucky that the guy didn't get hurt. If Orr doesn't catch himself on his way down and is injured (which easily could have happened), Smart likely has a small lawsuit on his hands if Orr chose to pursue it.

3. Jalen Rose jumped to Smart's side on the NBA Pre-game show today. He said that if he were in Smart's position, he would have beaten the **** out of Orr so he should consider himself lucky that Smart was so under control.

He's has a history of doing stuff like this. He's like those guys that use twitter to insult people. Only difference is here, he actually got what was coming to him.

I just don't think it's wise to judge how good a person is based on how they behave at a basketball game.