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2015-16 UW Badger Basketball Discussion Thread

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Re: 2014-15 Badger Basketball Game/Discussion Thread 

Post#301 » by Kerb Hohl » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:52 pm

Bernman wrote:Counter to the football team, nearly every scholarship player on the basketball team has looked more capable then their walk-on counterparts. The lone exception that I can think of Clayton Hanson. Hopefully that Schlundt kid pans out. However, I'll take my chances with the scholarship kid we haven't seen much of yet, but we know at least has quickness and handling from last year, and is anecdotally competitive from this year.

From his POV too, I really don't see the impetus to stay redshirted anymore. He'd get almost the entire conference season, where we are contenders to win the league and subsequently national championship, to back up both guard spots and prove he's worthy of being in the rotation at the end of this big year and going forward. I thought the reason he redshirted was he wouldn't get many meaningful minutes this year. Well now he will.


Has Bo Ryan not had enough of a track record of evaluating talent to make you think that his opinion on this matter in the practice gym is more valid?

Are you talking about Hill? The one that got offered by Brown, FGCU, Dartmouth, and Kent State?

Showalter got offered by Dayton, Drake, Miami (OH), and NDSU.

Hill has more height for a SG, which is kinda what they need more IMO but otherwise I'm not sure where you see a huge difference. The only difference seems to be that Showalter wanted to play for his home team so took a risk as a walk-on. They seem to be rated similarly by every service.
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Re: 2014-15 Badger Basketball Game/Discussion Thread 

Post#302 » by KidA24 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:04 pm

Johnlac1 wrote:My intent was that I think Ryan views Jackson and Koenig as about equal. I don't think that Koenig is overall better than Jackson, although his ceiling is higher. I'm not in the group who believe Jackson is a negative. He's been a key player for the Badgers for two seasons.
As has been stated, Jackson is the tougher-better def. player, Koenig is the better off player. In the current situation where the Badgers can get off. from their frontline, pts from the guards are sort of a bonus. The loss to Rutgers was an obvious aberration as Kaminsky was missing and Gasser was really off his normal good outside shooting.


Koenig has one amazing skill that Jackson does not have: He delivers the ball into the post on-time, with accuracy and knows how to use his dribble and angles to get a pass into the post.

I think Hayes, especially, is going to benefit with Koenig getting more minutes. I think we might see Kaminsky, Hayes, Dukkan, Dekker , Koenig at least once in the upcoming week... I'm kind of excited to see what that lineup might do.
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Re: 2014-15 Badger Basketball Game/Discussion Thread 

Post#303 » by buckboy » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:08 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:
Bernman wrote:Counter to the football team, nearly every scholarship player on the basketball team has looked more capable then their walk-on counterparts. The lone exception that I can think of Clayton Hanson. Hopefully that Schlundt kid pans out. However, I'll take my chances with the scholarship kid we haven't seen much of yet, but we know at least has quickness and handling from last year, and is anecdotally competitive from this year.

From his POV too, I really don't see the impetus to stay redshirted anymore. He'd get almost the entire conference season, where we are contenders to win the league and subsequently national championship, to back up both guard spots and prove he's worthy of being in the rotation at the end of this big year and going forward. I thought the reason he redshirted was he wouldn't get many meaningful minutes this year. Well now he will.


Has Bo Ryan not had enough of a track record of evaluating talent to make you think that his opinion on this matter in the practice gym is more valid?

Are you talking about Hill? The one that got offered by Brown, FGCU, Dartmouth, and Kent State?

Showalter got offered by Dayton, Drake, Miami (OH), and NDSU.

Hill has more height for a SG, which is kinda what they need more IMO but otherwise I'm not sure where you see a huge difference. The only difference seems to be that Showalter wanted to play for his home team so took a risk as a walk-on. They seem to be rated similarly by every service.


I agree with your overall point, however, I think the tendency is to hope that Hill (possibly simply because of the scholarship ) is better than Showalter, because Showalter just isn't very good.

There's just no objective reason to believe that though unless you're able to see the practices.
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Re: 2014-15 Badger Basketball Game/Discussion Thread 

Post#304 » by El Duderino » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:42 pm

Johnlac1 wrote:
My intent was that I think Ryan views Jackson and Koenig as about equal. I don't think that Koenig is overall better than Jackson, although his ceiling is higher. I'm not in the group who believe Jackson is a negative. He's been a key player for the Badgers for two seasons.
As has been stated, Jackson is the tougher-better def. player, Koenig is the better off player. In the current situation where the Badgers can get off. from their frontline, pts from the guards are sort of a bonus. The loss to Rutgers was an obvious aberration as Kaminsky was missing and Gasser was really off his normal good outside shooting.


I don't think that right now at least that Koeing is clearly a better offensive player than Jackson is, they are just different.

Jackson is more prone to make the head scratching turnover, but he's shown a better ability to beat defenders off the dribble and score in the paint compared to Koeing who takes most of his shots from the perimeter. Watching Koeing since he arrived, i've wondered why he rarely even tries beating his defender off dribble penetration to get into the paint and either score or pass. What i don't know is if he's simply not skilled enough at that yet or if Bo frowns upon Koeing attempting it like Jackson does?

For as good/efficient as the Badgers offense usually is, they are still pretty heavily reliant on the three point shot outside of when Kaminski and/or Hayes is scoring well inside. Granted, there are a number of good jump shooters on the team, but Jackson is really the only guy on the team who fairly regularly attempts dribble penetration, especially when the shot clock is running down. That Purdue game being a prime example. The team wasn't shooting good from outside and in the last few minutes, Jackson hit two or three huge dribble drive shots in the last few minutes as the shot clock was running down and the overall offense was looking stagnant. Not sure Koeing could have done that given he rarely does it.
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Re: 2014-15 Badger Basketball Game/Discussion Thread 

Post#305 » by Bernman » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:03 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:Has Bo Ryan not had enough of a track record of evaluating talent to make you think that his opinion on this matter in the practice gym is more valid?

Are you talking about Hill? The one that got offered by Brown, FGCU, Dartmouth, and Kent State?

Showalter got offered by Dayton, Drake, Miami (OH), and NDSU.

Hill has more height for a SG, which is kinda what they need more IMO but otherwise I'm not sure where you see a huge difference. The only difference seems to be that Showalter wanted to play for his home team so took a risk as a walk-on. They seem to be rated similarly by every service.


You contradicted yourself. If we're supposed to blindly trust Bo's talent evaluation, then what about the fact Hill got a scholarship offer? You're using alternative offers and star ratings as more of a criteria.

At this point, it's not a choice for Bo between Hill and Show because the former is a redshirt.

But if it was, I figure he'd choose Hill, even if for no other reason than he's a pg and can bring the ball up the court. I can't see often times not getting into trouble with Gasser doing it.

BTW, I'm more worried about your mental state obsessing with me as a sporadic, benign poster and fan of the same teams as you, than Rodgers' or the Packers' this week.
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Re: 2014-15 Badger Basketball Game/Discussion Thread 

Post#306 » by RayRayJones » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:31 am

LOL @ Bo Ryan yelling "that is horse sh*t!" at the refs on the charge.
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Re: 2014-15 Badger Basketball Game/Discussion Thread 

Post#307 » by Johnlac1 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:35 am

El Duderino wrote:
Johnlac1 wrote:
My intent was that I think Ryan views Jackson and Koenig as about equal. I don't think that Koenig is overall better than Jackson, although his ceiling is higher. I'm not in the group who believe Jackson is a negative. He's been a key player for the Badgers for two seasons.
As has been stated, Jackson is the tougher-better def. player, Koenig is the better off player. In the current situation where the Badgers can get off. from their frontline, pts from the guards are sort of a bonus. The loss to Rutgers was an obvious aberration as Kaminsky was missing and Gasser was really off his normal good outside shooting.


I don't think that right now at least that Koeing is clearly a better offensive player than Jackson is, they are just different.

Jackson is more prone to make the head scratching turnover, but he's shown a better ability to beat defenders off the dribble and score in the paint compared to Koeing who takes most of his shots from the perimeter. Watching Koeing since he arrived, i've wondered why he rarely even tries beating his defender off dribble penetration to get into the paint and either score or pass. What i don't know is if he's simply not skilled enough at that yet or if Bo frowns upon Koeing attempting it like Jackson does?

For as good/efficient as the Badgers offense usually is, they are still pretty heavily reliant on the three point shot outside of when Kaminski and/or Hayes is scoring well inside. Granted, there are a number of good jump shooters on the team, but Jackson is really the only guy on the team who fairly regularly attempts dribble penetration, especially when the shot clock is running down. That Purdue game being a prime example. The team wasn't shooting good from outside and in the last few minutes, Jackson hit two or three huge dribble drive shots in the last few minutes as the shot clock was running down and the overall offense was looking stagnant. Not sure Koeing could have done that given he rarely does it.

You make some good points about Jackson's driving ability. He's definitely stronger than Koenig and able to take punishment and finish better. Plus, he's a very confident player. He's willing to be the take charge guy running the offense. He's shown the ability to make game-winning plays. I trust him as much as any Badger to take the last second shot.
One knock I do have with Jackson is his at times inability to see the floor and make the right play. You can tell at times that he's determined to get his shot off with other players open.
I think part of Koenig's earlier problems this year, as a soph. playing with juniors and seniors, was trying to fit in. He has to show more initiative. However, remember he's playing with one of the best frontlines in the country. I think he was clearly trying to defer. I've seen most of the Badger games, and it's clear that there were a number of times Koenig had his man beat but passed off. He's got to take his shots when they occur.
Offensively he can do it all. He can hit threes, has an excellent off the dribble jumper, and can get to the basket. Plus, he's has superior vision and passing ability compared to Jackson. Again, not a knock on Jackson as he's played very good ball for the Badgers last year and this year. Hopefully, Koenig can play with the confidence needed at his position.
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Re: 2014-15 Badger Basketball Game/Discussion Thread 

Post#308 » by Turk Nowitzki » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:36 am

Petteway is going to have to go for about 40 if Nebraska wants to win this. He might do it, he looks locked in tonight.
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Re: 2014-15 Badger Basketball Game/Discussion Thread 

Post#309 » by Turk Nowitzki » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:43 am

That was the best missed shot of the year for Dekker. Nice aggressive move in the post.
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Re: 2014-15 Badger Basketball Game/Discussion Thread 

Post#310 » by Turk Nowitzki » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:05 am

Seems like teams have been hitting an absurd number of well defended looks against us lately.
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2014-15 Badger Basketball Game/Discussion Thread 

Post#311 » by Kerb Hohl » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:15 am

Bernman wrote:
You contradicted yourself. If we're supposed to blindly trust Bo's talent evaluation, then what about the fact Hill got a scholarship offer? You're using alternative offers and star ratings as more of a criteria.

At this point, it's not a choice for Bo between Hill and Show because the former is a redshirt.

But if it was, I figure he'd choose Hill, even if for no other reason than he's a pg and can bring the ball up the court. I can't see often times not getting into trouble with Gasser doing it.

BTW, I'm more worried about your mental state obsessing with me as a sporadic, benign poster and fan of the same teams as you, than
Rodgers' or the Packers' this week.


I just find it interesting that you have such a strong take on this. Kansas didn't offer Frank Kaminsky...do you think they'd take him now? Things can change. If Showalter and Hill are pretty close to even, just roll with Showalter anyways. I'd imagine they're close, or Bo would have burned the shirt. All he needs to do is not be a trainwreck for 8-10 minutes/game until Jackson comes back. Jackson should be back for the B10 Tournament.

EDIT: There is also Riley Dearring, equally-recruited to Hill. He's another option out there by your theory that these guys are worlds better than Showalter for 8 minutes/game for 5 more weeks.
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Re: 2014-15 Badger Basketball Game/Discussion Thread 

Post#312 » by Turk Nowitzki » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:34 am

Frank is flashing that 1st round talent tonight. Leading fast breaks, throwing lobs to Dekker, knocking down 3's, being a presence down low on both ends.
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Re: 2014-15 Badger Basketball Game/Discussion Thread 

Post#313 » by RiotPunch » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:34 am

Really need a good Badger W tonight to help distract myself from the utter devastation of Sunday.
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Re: 2014-15 Badger Basketball Game/Discussion Thread 

Post#314 » by Turk Nowitzki » Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:43 am

Putting on a clinic defensively tonight but we could easily be up 20 if anyone besides Hayes and Kaminsky could finish inside.
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Re: 2014-15 Badger Basketball Game/Discussion Thread 

Post#315 » by Turk Nowitzki » Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:49 am

Every so often Dekker does something like that and you know why everyone expects so much from him.
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Re: 2014-15 Badger Basketball Game/Discussion Thread 

Post#316 » by ackypoo » Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:50 am

Turk Nowitzki wrote:Every so often Dekker does something like that and you know why everyone expects so much from him.

nodding.gif

but what about the rest of the time?
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Re: 2014-15 Badger Basketball Game/Discussion Thread 

Post#317 » by trwi7 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:51 am

Christian Ponder may suck as a QB but it would be hard for him to do much better in the marriage department.
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Re: 2014-15 Badger Basketball Game/Discussion Thread 

Post#318 » by Turk Nowitzki » Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:52 am

Isn't that a carry by Uthoff? The ref just felt bad for them so he let it go?
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Re: 2014-15 Badger Basketball Game/Discussion Thread 

Post#319 » by trwi7 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:57 am

Turk Nowitzki wrote:Isn't that a carry by Uthoff? The ref just felt bad for them so he let it go?


He didn't put it back down. If he would've put it back down it's a carry.
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Re: 2014-15 Badger Basketball Game/Discussion Thread 

Post#320 » by KidA24 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:01 am

Loving the first half. I hate Iowa.
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