PG Bulls - Loss

[Daver]

My hottest take i want to fire off is I feel like we're looking at a non-zero chance that Dame is asking out of here after the season.

Why would he stay? He needed to make a move to control his future, instead he got shipped to a place where nothing's really under his control at all let alone his standard role on the court as recognized by baseline bbiq everywhere.

Well I don't think he's a guy that ones to start being known like Harden is right now. And, he has Giannis. A perfect fit next to him and top 5 player in the league. Another trade becomes pretty complicated and unlikely to go to a more 'win now' situation than he's in Pretty good reasons.

Have to keep in mind we're only a month into this so a ton is gonna happen between now and June. But if things go the negative way folks are predicting and if things behind the scenes are as bad as we kind of fear right now, his move would be to go management and tell them the coach is an idiot and they need a new. Bucks would fire the coach in an second rather than have to trade him

Absolutely spot on not a chsnce in hell AG stays n dame gets traded.This whole cluster fu.. falls directly and i mean directly on AG i dont give a fu.. if its only 19 ganes.The schemes or lack their of on both sides blows badly.Dame doesnt get a shot in tbe 3rd you have portis bringing it up court while dame stands there brutal O flow thsnks prunty/AG.
As for the D 19 ganes in n people on nba network people on tnt coaches announcers have zero clue what D they are running.AG is a ass clown.Should of changed that D scheme already no wonder if dame is pissed you know why

[randy84]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Cvwv0nd9n08

[rilamann]

Yeah, like that time last season vs Boston when we had Giannis/Jrue/Khris and we needed overtime at home to beat the Celtic's bottom 6 players.

The selective memory around here when it comes to Bud almost seems like trolling at this point.

I forgot last year, when Bud had a dynamic guard who averages 30+ppg on the roster, to go along with Giannis 30+ppg.

You're reaching pretty hard here.

You know that I am talking about the Celtics game in Milwaukee in February, right? The game where the Celtics rested Tatum/Brown/Smart/Horford and Mike Muscala played 44 minutes for the Celtics and they put up 125 on us.

The same game where we were up 3 in the final seconds of regulation but your boy Bud chose not to foul and Sam Hauser hit a crazy 3 at the buzzer to send it into overtime ala Caruso last night.

Then we were down 1 in the final seconds of overtime and our old friend Jrue went full Dame and hit a 3 to win the game. Ringing a bell?

Also kind of ironic that you use that game as your example that Bud didn't have a 30+ ppg scorer, Jrue had 40 that night.

But yeah, I wasn't talking about the Bucks Celtics game in Milwaukee a month later in March when they beat us by 40+ and were up by 50 at one point.

You would have thought the Bucks would have been more focused in that one in March, especially after the Pacers without Haliburton came into Milwaukee and put up 139 on us about a week earlier.

Or don't you remember that one either?

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

My hottest take i want to fire off is I feel like we're looking at a non-zero chance that Dame is asking out of here after the season.

Why would he stay? He needed to make a move to control his future, instead he got shipped to a place where nothing's really under his control at all let alone his standard role on the court as recognized by baseline bbiq everywhere.

Well I don't think he's a guy that ones to start being known like Harden is right now. And, he has Giannis. A perfect fit next to him and top 5 player in the league. Another trade becomes pretty complicated and unlikely to go to a more 'win now' situation than he's in Pretty good reasons.

Have to keep in mind we're only a month into this so a ton is gonna happen between now and June. But if things go the negative way folks are predicting and if things behind the scenes are as bad as we kind of fear right now, his move would be to go management and tell them the coach is an idiot and they need a new. Bucks would fire the coach in an second rather than have to trade him

not sure about giannis being viewed as a perfect compliment for dame anymore than prime westbrook being the right compliment for durant or lebron. it could be more of that kind of fit then this hes big and dames small perfect fit thing. style of play is a FAR larger determination on stuff like that

personally i think if dames not the highest usage guy on whatever team he plays on then it removes hella value since hes such a one side player.

but i think the original post about dame kind of wondering about the fit could be a very real thing after a year. on paper it makes sense but practically the ideal fit of a superstar for giannis is very similar to the ideal fit for say a harden or a westbrook. very similar type of ball dominance with giannis going on there and players that arent intuitvely unselfish as much as they have to almost convince themselves game after game that being unselfish is in their teams best interest. practically they kind of have to be the man to play their best game.

i do hope they synergize tho. if they cant its a much bigger problem than just those two tho. i mean if they cant then whats that mean for our next guy?

i also think giannis and middletons synergy he will never find with anybody else the way they have it. maybe jrue was as good as we could have ever found becquse of the defensive side and simply not needing the ball to be effective alonside giannis. but with middleton theyve been playing together since they were kids and they both played differently and thought differently in a general way then they they do now. i think it will be hard to slide offensive killers into this dynamic and have it be a "perfect fit"... maybe ever.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

there are guys here that were so vested in firing bud that i really believe that the bigger and more obvious it is that move backfired..... the more theyll dig in their heels and that will never change.

funny considering whats going on here is almost the spitting image of what happend before he got here.... but with coaching youll always be able to figure out an argument to justify that move over a 5 year span with such high expectations.

im over the debate. i went immediately on record the moment that happened our run was DONE. ive never been less happy about being a **** prophet then on that one but ive kind of been broken ever since other than the initial excitement of the trade and start of the season. but thats gone now. i just kind of feel empty watching this team now. even when we win its just not fun. there has been nothing yet so far... nothing... that seems sustainable with the good stuff. yeah dame and giannis will have nights they go off because thats who they are but to win you have to have some team element and we have none

[rilamann]

Only six players in the league last year averaged over 30ppg.

1. Embiid
2. Luka
3. Dame
4. SGA
5. Giannis
6. Tatum

We now have two of them on our roster.

And Middleton and Lopez. Team is probably looking around the locker room thinking "we don't even need to play defense."

This is 100% what is going on. The Bucks are a bit cocky and think they can only show up at the end and win the game. Most of the time they can, but sometimes you let a team hang around and it bites you in the ass and they hit some tough shots in the clutch. Like Caruso did last night. Coby White hit some big ones too, especially that one in OT, he looked like prime Durant on that step back.

The last 2 games the Bucks started out well and jumped out to double digit leads, but then once they got the big lead early they got careless and casual and they let the other team come back and then hang around. Then in the final 3 or 4 minutes they crank it up and in a blink they come back and take the lead.

The Heat and Bulls games were identical, looked great the first 2-3 minutes and jumped out to early double digit leads. Then proceeded to look like doo doo until the final 3 or 4 minutes. Only difference was the Bulls hit big shots down the stretch and the Heat didn't.

I don't like it either, but that's why I am not jumping off a bridge just yet. If they can look really good the first 3 minutes and the final 3 minutes, they should be pretty good if they can play at that level for an just an entire quarter. I am hoping we see it soon.

[Prez]

Yeah, I’m not buying this “they just think they can coast for 45 minutes” bull ****, it’s an easy excuse to fall back to and an easy way to dismiss the fundamental scheme issues defensively and how Griffin’s approach does not mesh with this roster at all. It’s how we’re gonna be complacent with an underperforming team all season until Spo clowns them again come April/May.

[nagawicka]

There's a reason no one is scared of us. It's really easy to out-coach our team regardless of personnel.

No. Not regardless of personnel in any way, shape or form.

Yes. Bulls without their (arguably) two best players and we were completely outcoached and lost.

Regardless of who we're up against, the opposition coach can run systems that will cause us to fail repeatedly.

Not regardless of personnel, they got outplayed.

[nagawicka]

Griff is Ray Rhodes. I also think this team might be like that Packer team as well

I wouldn't go that far. That team was 8-8. We're a contender with or without Griff. A better chance to win a title without him.

I think Ray started 4-0 with a bunch miracle Favre comebacks papering over a mediocre team. That’s kind of what we look like right now

Rhodes' Packers went 2-1 at the week 4 bye and were 3-2 at week 6.

[mediocrityrules]

No. Not regardless of personnel in any way, shape or form.

Yes. Bulls without their (arguably) two best players and we were completely outcoached and lost.

Regardless of who we're up against, the opposition coach can run systems that will cause us to fail repeatedly.

Not regardless of personnel, they got outplayed.

No, they got outcoached. Caruso even said it after the game, that they knew exactly how to play us to get open shots all night.

[mediocrityrules]

there are guys here that were so vested in firing bud that i really believe that the bigger and more obvious it is that move backfired..... the more theyll dig in their heels and that will never change.

funny considering whats going on here is almost the spitting image of what happend before he got here.... but with coaching youll always be able to figure out an argument to justify that move over a 5 year span with such high expectations.

im over the debate. i went immediately on record the moment that happened our run was DONE. ive never been less happy about being a **** prophet then on that one but ive kind of been broken ever since other than the initial excitement of the trade and start of the season. but thats gone now. i just kind of feel empty watching this team now. even when we win its just not fun. there has been nothing yet so far... nothing... that seems sustainable with the good stuff. yeah dame and giannis will have nights they go off because thats who they are but to win you have to have some team element and we have none

We needed to move on from Bud, but we have rose-colored glasses on now when thinking about him because of just how bad Griffin is in every single respect (I mean, i literally cannot think of one thing that Griffin is clearly good at as a HC).

It would be a completely different song that you'd be singing if we had picked up Nurse instead of Griffin. This team was ripe for a seasoned, proven coach. Not someone who had never had the HC role before.

We needed to move on from Bud. Unfortunately, we picked the worst possible replacement.

[RiotPunch]

Glad that I missed this game live. I instead got to meet Keanu Reeves and watch his butt-rock band perform.

About to dive in, though. I don't know why I do this to myself.

I want to know more about this instead of reading literally about the same thing. Bucks D is ****, and we try to pull a W out of our asses at the end but it doesn't always work.

My wife works for an artist management company that manages Dogstar, a band in which Keanu plays bass. Got to meet him during sound check, although it was very brief and he ended up napping through most of it, but he was incredibly nice.

If you are into 90's butt-rock, you might be into their stuff. I was indifferent to it, but cool to meet him. I wanted to tell him that Hardball was a childhood fave of mine but I played it cool.

[DutchManDanFan]

Griff is under enormous pressure. His post game interview he sounded rough.

Sure. But his answers were just terrible. If Horst saw this interview he must be looking at other HC candidates already.

[RiotPunch]

Griff is under enormous pressure. His post game interview he sounded rough.

Sure. But his answers were just terrible. If Horst saw this interview he must be looking at other HC candidates already.

Oh, he saw the interview.

Go back and look at all of the Griff introductory pressers. The way Horst looks at Griff tells it all. He does not trust him, he is not his guy. He held his hand through it all, and Horst isn't some media savant, although he's improved immensely since becoming GM.

[RiotPunch]

Edited for accuracy

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

there are guys here that were so vested in firing bud that i really believe that the bigger and more obvious it is that move backfired..... the more theyll dig in their heels and that will never change.

funny considering whats going on here is almost the spitting image of what happend before he got here.... but with coaching youll always be able to figure out an argument to justify that move over a 5 year span with such high expectations.

im over the debate. i went immediately on record the moment that happened our run was DONE. ive never been less happy about being a **** prophet then on that one but ive kind of been broken ever since other than the initial excitement of the trade and start of the season. but thats gone now. i just kind of feel empty watching this team now. even when we win its just not fun. there has been nothing yet so far... nothing... that seems sustainable with the good stuff. yeah dame and giannis will have nights they go off because thats who they are but to win you have to have some team element and we have none

We needed to move on from Bud, but we have rose-colored glasses on now when thinking about him because of just how bad Griffin is in every single respect (I mean, i literally cannot think of one thing that Griffin is clearly good at as a HC).

It would be a completely different song that you'd be singing if we had picked up Nurse instead of Griffin. This team was ripe for a seasoned, proven coach. Not someone who had never had the HC role before.

We needed to move on from Bud. Unfortunately, we picked the worst possible replacement.

bud was the greatest coach of all time for us and it wasnt close. we didnt need to move on from bud anymore than we needed to move on from alcindor. factors may have forced him out but it still doomed us. those that looked at bud and thought we needed a replacement because of whatever flaws he had thats the exact same buffoonery that karl felt about ray because he didnt play defense or some mfing stupid thing.

its really important when youre giving council or making decisions about a franchise you dont make moves that forever alter the trajectory of the franchise. like your big idea is the thing that completely **** the franchise once and for all? thats the kind of stupid ass dumbfckery firing bud was all abpout to me. bud was literally giannis level of impact here. greatest coach weve had paired with the second best player weve ever had. dame wasnt the perfect fit for giannis... bud was. you dont remove that type of piece and just go get the next guy. when pieces like that leave its over.

i freaked when we fired him. we just fired our popovich after his first 5 years is how i felt. we fired our sloan. i was the biggest voice on the board and went off on day one. i was clearly at this point right.

our run is over. mark my words. we are sooooo done. he was more to do with our success than any other piece on this roster and we sucked until the exact minute he got here and it will be the same now. instant drop off and permanent. you dont just go "get a guy". HE was the key to this thing. and NO COACH WILL EVER REACH GIANNIS AGAIN. we gave giannis control and his age with how he plays were done. what needs to happen will never happen. bud was the guy that reached him and that trust and the fit and the fact that bud knew giannis better than giannis knows giannis will not be duplicated.

but anyway...as i said i need to be done with this discussion. most of you guys thought this was literally a good idea when it happened. that is so fricking crazy. for somebody who nailed this so perfectly then...how do i even discuss this with people that disagree now? like seriously?

im just to the point it is what it is. we had the perfect coach for this team and we **** it up. some will get it some wont.

and you guys that called for it.....you **** it up. you had your chance and you **** it up. thats where i am with you guys. you shouldnt be allowed to touch nice things

[SirChurros]

Bud certainly had his flaws, but Bud was absolutely a scapegoat.

[SirChurros]

Griffin just sucks. I’m not sure how some of you can’t see the obvious Kidd 2.0 signs.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Bud certainly had his flaws, but Bud was absolutely a scapegoat.

virtually every single one of "his flaws"......in retrospect....were his genius.

if you dont see it that way now in time you will. just wait. this **** is going to get ugly as hell. whats happening now is just the beginning. its the tip of the iceberg. were going to have poor success. contracts that were good will become bad. a lockerrroom that was the best in the league will deteriorate. there wont be a single aspect that doesnt go to ****.

this is still milwaukee. our market matters and all the things he did that corrected this **** .500 club he inherited....people just started to take for granted. the things he did and for the reasons why will are already becoming obvious.....and as strongly as i felt at the time of his firing.... now I KNOW. its over. you cant unring that bell. the next guy and the next guy wont be able to correct this even if he implemented the exact **** bud did. i think we all know this just some wont admit it

bottom line firing bud was a top 1-2 **** up in the franchises history..... but anyway lets move on.... go bucks. hopefully we beat the hawks at home tonight. its nuts were all worried about it but we will never not worry about games like this again....but like i said... go bucks

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

id also like to say... for years ive had these brief moments where ive thought trading giannis for the ultimate package would be a good move for us. then i calm down and im like no.... thats mfing stupid.

thats how we all should have viewed bud too. thats the best example i can think of. there was no next guy that was going to get this team like he did. and even if you could find somebody close with the genious and the x's and o's....the dynamic we had was still going to be lost forever. bud was the father of all this. the next guy the players are going to think their the father and its going to be that way until we get new players and another coach for them that can do it together.

thats a huge element of it that i think doesnt get discussed enough. whatever coach we have no matter who he is and what hes capable of the players themselves are in a completely different stage of their career and they wont view this guy the same