Woelfel on WSSP: Ellis not interested re Bucks extension

tski1972 · Post #321 » by **tski1972** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:39 pm

emunney wrote:http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=9knwvx2

Good for us, but Orlando ends up with about 10 PF's on their roster.

Chuck Diesel · Post #322 » by **Chuck Diesel** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:44 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
Chuck Diesel wrote:Monta is the best offensive player we've had since 2007 Michael Redd. I'll enjoy watching him get buckets for however long he's in a Bucks jersey.

2011-12 Jennings was definitely better than 2011-12 Ellis.

That may be the case. I was thinking more about the overall career production and the two preseason games I've seen this year. I'm on board for a full year of Jennings and Ellis with no trade chatter.

Post #323 » by **paulpressey25** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:45 pm

emunney wrote:http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=9knwvx2

Evan Turner? Yes please.

But I'd be equally happy with Afflalo, maybe more so.

I'd consider giving up Monta and Sanders fair payment for either guy.

Just sad that everyone on this board to a man wants a trade like this to go down. Instead we will likely hold onto Monta and ride him to a 21-27 record at the all star break. Then deal him at the deadline for Lamar Odom's contract (who won't report) and a second round pick.

Chuck Diesel · Post #324 » by **Chuck Diesel** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:46 pm

Monta is the best offensive player we've had since 2007 Michael Redd. I'll enjoy watching him get buckets for however long he's in a Bucks jersey.

Post #325 » by **paulpressey25** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:03 pm

Chuck Diesel wrote:Monta is the best offensive player we've had since 2007 Michael Redd. I'll enjoy watching him get buckets for however long he's in a Bucks jersey.

Are you testing this line for your stand-up act?

The sad part is that Kohl I'm sure is thrilled to have him after he scored 26 the other night.

Badgerlander · Post #326 » by **Badgerlander** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:20 pm

Yeah Monta was the 7th highest ppg scorer and Brandon the 11th in the East last season (with DRose 4th and Dwight 6th). I'm sure Kohl is mandating that both play 40 minutes per to get them both over 20ppg and showcase them for the Allstar game to try and make the Bucks "relevant" again in his eyes. book it

EastSideBucksFan · Post #327 » by **EastSideBucksFan** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:22 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
Chuck Diesel wrote:Monta is the best offensive player we've had since 2007 Michael Redd. I'll enjoy watching him get buckets for however long he's in a Bucks jersey.

Are you testing this line for your stand-up act?

The sad part is that Kohl I'm sure is thrilled to have him after he scored 26 the other night.

The Bucks were awful offensively before Monta's arrival.

I am looking forward to have someone who can actually...ya know....score the basketball.

LUKE23 · Post #328 » by **LUKE23** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:48 pm

EastSideBucksFan wrote:

The Bucks were awful offensively before Monta's arrival.

I am looking forward to have someone who can actually...ya know....score the basketball.

And awful defensively after his arrival. Scoring is fine, but I prefer it to not be the 26 points in 25 possessions (or worse) variety.

Efficiency matters and it matters a ton if we're going to be a good team.

GHOSTofSIKMA · Post #329 » by **GHOSTofSIKMA** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:58 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
Efficiency matters and it matters a ton if we're going to be a good team.

if ellis can stay in that range of 52-54 ts% then hes valuable and this whole efficiency thing becomes a non issue. i would agree that if he falls out of that range than he starts to become an issue. he doesnt have alot besides his offense to help you win.

EastSideBucksFan · Post #330 » by **EastSideBucksFan** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:05 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
EastSideBucksFan wrote:

The Bucks were awful offensively before Monta's arrival.

I am looking forward to have someone who can actually...ya know....score the basketball.

And awful defensively after his arrival. Scoring is fine, but I prefer it to not be the 26 points in 25 possessions (or worse) variety.

Efficiency matters and it matters a ton if we're going to be a good team.

Drew Gooden was starting at center when Monta Ellis arrived.

Post #331 » by **paulpressey25** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:09 pm

EastSideBucksFan wrote:
Drew Gooden was starting at center when Monta Ellis arrived.

I've watched Monta now in the preseason without Drew Gooden. He seems to be a Drew Gooden-esque weak point in our defense.

If he'd actually try to D up his man rather than float the passing lanes, I'd be fine. I'm not liking what I'm seeing at the moment.

LUKE23 · Post #332 » by **LUKE23** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:12 pm

EastSideBucksFan wrote:
Drew Gooden was starting at center when Monta Ellis arrived.

Doesn't change the fact that Monta is awful on D.

EastSideBucksFan · Post #333 » by **EastSideBucksFan** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:32 pm

Once we get Moute starting next to Monta, I think we're going to see some decent results.

There aren't many SG's that are elite at both ends.

Redd was a terrible defender & so was Ray Allen.

LUKE23 · Post #334 » by **LUKE23** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:44 pm

EastSideBucksFan wrote:Once we get Moute starting next to Monta, I think we're going to see some decent results.

There aren't many SG's that are elite at both ends.

Redd was a terrible defender & so was Ray Allen.

Both scored at much better clips than Ellis in their primes for us.

Ray:

Age 24: 22.1 @ .570
Age 25: 22.0 @ .610
Age 26: 21.8 @ .598

Redd:

Age 24: 21.7 @ .544
Age 25: 23.0 @ .536
Age 26: 25.4 @ .574
Age 27: 26.7 @ .586

Ellis:

Age 24: 25.5 @ .517
Age 25: 24.1 @ .536
Age 26: 20.4 @ .509 (MIL + GSW)

I agree Redd and Ray weren't good on D, but both could score at much better clips because of their 3 point ability, which Ellis doesn't have, and likely isn't developing now at age 27.

mattg · Post #335 » by **mattg** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:48 pm

While Monta sucks on defense, you know what you're getting with him on that end, and our coaching staff refuses to try and change the scheme to make it less of a weak point. He gets lost off ball on guys who run off screens and gambles too much. So why the eff as a coach would you have Ellis defend guys who play that style on offense? Why not switch screens when Ellis' man is the one running off screens? Why not put Ellis on ball where he's much less of a liability? Why insist on the team fighting through screens on defense no matter when its proven that with the roster we have that it's an extremely ineffective defensive strategy?

Good coaches adapt what they do to the players they have. Skiles is the exact opposite. He does what he does no matter what. Good defensive players in chicago? Good defense. One of the best defensive anchors at C in the NBA in Bogut? Strong defensive teams. Current roster? Not so much. Coaches are supposed to put their players in the best position to succeed that they can, and you'd have to be nuts to think Skiles is good at doing that. The counter example is a guy like George Karl, who changes styles based on personnel. The most important factor in basketball is pace, and there are numerous ways of going about controlling it.

GHOSTofSIKMA · Post #336 » by **GHOSTofSIKMA** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:09 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
I agree Redd and Ray weren't good on D, but both could score at much better clips because of their 3 point ability, which Ellis doesn't have, and likely isn't developing now at age 27.

to say ellis doesnt have 3 pt ability isnt really true. he shoots it about as well as jennings..... does jennings have 3pt ability?

certainly ellis isnt is good as our previous all star/ olympian type bucks sg examples as a pure scorer/ shooter..... but he is the better distributor. so at least hes got that going for him to make up some that gap.

for me, hes a nice, lite, fun to watch version of those 2 for the time being. like i said before.... if he can give us ts% in the 52-54% on volume, then he'll have some great value. the key to this team is our frontcourt showing some improvement. we know what we got with jennings and monta. if they get league average efficiency between them(53ish%)..... then we'll do more than fine.

LUKE23 · Post #337 » by **LUKE23** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:14 pm

Jennings career 3: 1.8 makes @ .345
Ellis career 3: .8 makes @ .327

That really isn't that close considering volume, and Jennings is probably not done improving either considering he just turned 23.

Chuck Diesel · Post #338 » by **Chuck Diesel** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:16 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
Chuck Diesel wrote:Monta is the best offensive player we've had since 2007 Michael Redd. I'll enjoy watching him get buckets for however long he's in a Bucks jersey.

Are you testing this line for your stand-up act?

The sad part is that Kohl I'm sure is thrilled to have him after he scored 26 the other night.

That's my new closer. I usually start by feeling out the audience with some Udoh/Sanders crowd work, hit em hard with an Ersan Ilyasova act out and then finish up with that passionate take on Monta Ellis.

GHOSTofSIKMA · Post #339 » by **GHOSTofSIKMA** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:30 pm

LUKE23 wrote:Jennings career 3: 1.8 makes @ .345
Ellis career 3: .8 makes @ .327

That really isn't that close considering volume, and Jennings is probably not done improving either considering he just turned 23.

kind of an invalid argument considering jennings numbers are skewed by his first year and hes been worse ever since, and montas numbers were skewed low his first 3-4 years and hes been better ever since.....

recently, and in general, they got about the same likelihood of making a 3. thats my gist. its the best thing jennings has going offensively, so its hard to say ellis is weak cause he cant do it.... if he does it about as well. wheres does that leave jennings?

LUKE23 · Post #340 » by **LUKE23** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:34 pm

I think you need to look at Monta's 3 point %'s again. They are all over the map too. But you can't discount the fact that Jennings takes and makes a lot more. The break even point for three point shooting (in terms of it being a good shot) is .333. Jennings has cleared that comfortably at almost two makes a game. Does he need to improve on last year? Yes. Ellis is not a 3 point threat. If I'm guarding him I'm letting him take that shot all day.