Stein: Strong possibility Bucks active due to slow start

[ReasonablySober]

First of all, you should compare their career stats, not 2013-14. Secondly, you are again neglecting the fact that Neal has (and does) play his minutes against reserves. Put him in a starting role and I guarantee he substantially less effective than Mayo.

Like I said, though, Mayo is average. Gary Neal is a poor man's Mayo.

Over the course of his career when playing between 30-39 minutes a night, these are Neal's numbers:
16.6 ppg
3.7 trb
2.7 apg
46 FG%
43 3FG
58 TS%

His career PER 36:
16.4 ppg
3.7 rpg
2.8 apg
42 FG%
40 3FG%
54 TS%

[Ron Swanson]

GOS give it up. There are plenty of shooters in the league and only a few elite defensive big men. Sanders has double the value of Mayo.

the sg position in the league right now is weaker than its ever been. theres centers of sanders caliber and impact all over the place.

but then again... maybe im wrong. you said he was elite right? which is the team thats gonna give us a bunch of youth and picks for him that im forgetting?

You're not going to get a king's ransom for either one of them, but Larry's value is much much higher than OJ's even after the injury and night club fiasco, ask literally any GM in the league....

[LUKE23]

the sg position in the league right now is weaker than its ever been. theres centers of sanders caliber and impact all over the place.

There is "best paint defense in the league" caliber centers all over the place? Interesting.

[LedZepp007]

Ah, the "if he was a bench player he'd only be going against bench players and thus his numbers would be so much better" argument. Always a classic.

It is a simplification for sure, but it's also a valid point.

Gary Neal is a scrub who can shoot. Mayo is an average player who can shoot. I know who is better, younger, and worth more. Do you?

[ReasonablySober]

I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Lot of you folks were totally good with the deal when it was signed. I wasn't and I'm feeling pretty good about my stance. The Bucks gave someone who's been a bad player $8 million and surprise, he's still bad. Drew Gooden Part 2.

[Wooderson]

Mayo is nowhere near is as bad as Gooden - I must be missing something because I don't believe Mayo to be the worst defender at his position in the entire league.

Those reactions were relative to expectations. The Bucks were going to hand out money to JR Smith or Mayo, they made the better choice and at a cheaper price tag than most expected given Hammond's track record with free agents.

If I'm not mistaken DB, you were pushing hard for JR over Mayo. How's JR performed so far this year?

[ReasonablySober]

Mayo is nowhere near is as bad as Gooden - I must be missing something because I don't believe Mayo to be the worst defender at his position in the entire league.

Those reactions were relative to expectations. The Bucks were going to hand out money to JR Smith or Mayo, they made the better choice and at a cheaper price tag than most expected given Hammond's track record with free agents.

If I'm not mistaken DB, you were pushing hard for JR over Mayo. How's JR performed so far this year?

You were mistaken.

[Wooderson]

Edit: Couldn't find anything. Looks like I was mistaken. I remember getting into a debate with someone about how Smith would be worst-case scenario type deal. Wooderson =

[cinematographer]

Mayo is not terrible. Its just that if you rely on him to be your star you're in trouble. That to some degree is where we are at with him. Mayo is a middle of the road starting SG. Not great, not bad.

Mayo would be a very good 6th man type player. I think he'd excel in that role.

Is he overpaid? Yeah probably so. 5-6M is probably more like it, but that's not a big deal.

That's 3-2M extra is a HUGE deal to OKC, who is right against the Tax threshold.

[whatthe_buck!?]

I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Lot of you folks were totally good with the deal when it was signed. I wasn't and I'm feeling pretty good about my stance. The Bucks gave someone who's been a bad player $8 million and surprise, he's still bad. Drew Gooden Part 2.

Thankfully he's only singed for 3 instead of 5 years but yeah, it was a horrible move the moment we signed him and the fact he signed with us for 8 per should tell us that nobody else wanted to give him more than the mid level. I will say I think a bunch of people -myself included- kind of rationalized the signing in the sense that we were expecting something so much worse (like say for example 40 mil over 4 years for Mayo) and also because the deal seemed potentially unloadable if Mayo improved on his play last year for the Mavs.

I will say it is pretty jarring to me that in the first month of the first year of his contract Mayo's contract seems completely untradable for anything at all of positive value until it becomes an expiring, I wasn't expecting Mayo's play to make that evident so astoundingly quickly (I expected it to happen sooner or later, but after his first couple games for the bucks? Crazy). Congrats to Mayo btw for accomplishing that feat so soon, I hope he likes Milwaukee because he's stuck here for a couple years...

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

GOS give it up. There are plenty of shooters in the league and only a few elite defensive big men. Sanders has double the value of Mayo.

the sg position in the league right now is weaker than its ever been. theres centers of sanders caliber and impact all over the place.

but then again... maybe im wrong. you said he was elite right? which is the team thats gonna give us a bunch of youth and picks for him that im forgetting?

You're not going to get a king's ransom for either one of them, but Larry's value is much much higher than OJ's even after the injury and night club fiasco, ask literally any GM in the league....

im not saying equal or minute differences between the 2. reread my posts. i acknowledge larry has more value. im stating they are in the same ballpark. reality is neither sanders, ersan, or mayo is some big nugget we can hang out there in trade. they are our best 3 veteran players and for the most part they are fit pieces that if we were lucky we might get a team out there to give us salary relief and a jj redick package back for them.

[whatthe_buck!?]

Mayo is not terrible. Its just that if you rely on him to be your star you're in trouble. That to some degree is where we are at with him. Mayo is a middle of the road starting SG. Not great, not bad.

Mayo would be a very good 6th man type player. I think he'd excel in that role.

Is he overpaid? Yeah probably so. 5-6M is probably more like it, but that's not a big deal.

That's 3-2M extra is a HUGE deal to OKC, who is right against the Tax threshold.

This. It's a huge deal to OKC or to basically any other win now team that would be in the market for a shooter off the bench sixth man type player...

[Wooderson]

We could only sign Mayo to a 4 year deal at most. But I figured that length was all but guaranteed given Hammond's track record.

[cinematographer]

GOS give it up. There are plenty of shooters in the league and only a few elite defensive big men. Sanders has double the value of Mayo.

the sg position in the league right now is weaker than its ever been. theres centers of sanders caliber and impact all over the place.

but then again... maybe im wrong. you said he was elite right? which is the team thats gonna give us a bunch of youth and picks for him that im forgetting?

GoS, I have two honest, not-trying-to-be-a-dick questions for you:

-- Do you know how good Sanders' defense was last year, according to literally every advanced metric in the league?

-- Do you still prefer batting average to on base percentage when evaluating baseball players?

[cinematographer]

i just had an actual conversation with a real live nba general manager about these 3 and what their value might be in trade. bottom line if you slightly won a mayo deal and slightly lost a larry deal then i would expect the return to be roughly the same for both .

Wait, what?

[Chapter29]

Mayo is not terrible. Its just that if you rely on him to be your star you're in trouble. That to some degree is where we are at with him. Mayo is a middle of the road starting SG. Not great, not bad.

Mayo would be a very good 6th man type player. I think he'd excel in that role.

Is he overpaid? Yeah probably so. 5-6M is probably more like it, but that's not a big deal.

That's 3-2M extra is a HUGE deal to OKC, who is right against the Tax threshold.

Sux to be them I guess. Well not really as I think they are a great fun to watch team.

Teams usually piss away far more than 2-3M and I am sure even the great OKC team has as well.

[Wooderson]

i just had an actual conversation with a real live nba general manager about these 3 and what their value might be in trade. bottom line if you slightly won a mayo deal and slightly lost a larry deal then i would expect the return to be roughly the same for both .

Wait, what?

He had a conversation with his XBox. NBA Live apparently now comes with a Siri-like application.

[LedZepp007]

the sg position in the league right now is weaker than its ever been. theres centers of sanders caliber and impact all over the place.

but then again... maybe im wrong. you said he was elite right? which is the team thats gonna give us a bunch of youth and picks for him that im forgetting?

You're not going to get a king's ransom for either one of them, but Larry's value is much much higher than OJ's even after the injury and night club fiasco, ask literally any GM in the league....

im not saying equal or minute differences between the 2. reread my posts. i acknowledge larry has more value. im stating they are in the same ballpark. reality is neither sanders, ersan, or mayo is some big nugget we can hang out there in trade. they are our best 3 veteran players and for the most part they are fit pieces that if we were lucky we might get a team out there to give us salary relief and a jj redick package back for them.

im gonna stand by that. i just had an actual conversation with a real live nba general manager about these 3 and what their value might be in trade. bottom line if you slightly won a mayo deal and slightly lost a larry deal then i would expect the return to be roughly the same for both .

Gery Woelfel is not a "real live nba general manager."

[whatthe_buck!?]

the sg position in the league right now is weaker than its ever been. theres centers of sanders caliber and impact all over the place.

but then again... maybe im wrong. you said he was elite right? which is the team thats gonna give us a bunch of youth and picks for him that im forgetting?

You're not going to get a king's ransom for either one of them, but Larry's value is much much higher than OJ's even after the injury and night club fiasco, ask literally any GM in the league....

im not saying equal or minute differences between the 2. reread my posts. i acknowledge larry has more value and thats why i said they are in the same ballpark. im simply saying that neither sanders, ersan, or mayo is some big nugget we can hang out there in trade. they are our best 3 veteran players and for the most part they are fit pieces that if we were lucky we might get a team out there to give us salary relief and a jj redick package back for them.

im gonna stand by that. i just had an actual conversation with a real live nba general manager about these 3 and what their value might be in trade. bottom line if you slightly won a mayo deal and slightly lost a larry deal then i would expect the return to be roughly the same for both .

Here's the way I look at it. Larry Sanders we could easily unload to the right team for an expiring contract at the very least. With Mayo I strongly believe there is no team that would deal an expiring for because his value as a player is not greater than the value of 8 mil in cap space or >8 mil in lux tax relief. Therefore Sanders Value>Mayo's Value.

[Wooderson]

You were mistaken.

Found the debate I was referring to and it was with Bernman, not you. Apologies.

You actually called JR a nightmare scenario. Which is spot on in terms of play/as an asset. Would have been awesome for the tank though