'14 Draft Thread - Parker Declares. List your top 4

emunney · Post #321 » by **emunney** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:37 pm

I really like Smart, I just think the Kidd comparison is extremely misleading.

Post #322 » by **paulpressey25** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:51 pm

I always see Smart as Fat Lever.

TroyD92 · Post #323 » by **TroyD92** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:03 pm

I actually like the Lowry comparison to Smart. Probably a better defender and worse shooter, but I see the similarities.

sidney lanier · Post #324 » by **sidney lanier** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:16 pm

emunney wrote:It makes no sense stylistically. Kidd is defined by his passing. Would you compare Glenn Robinson to Magic Johnson?

I can't think of anybody I'd compare to Magic Johnson. Not because comparing any prospect to a HOFer has inherent problems, but because nobody has ever been like Magic enough stylistically to make the comparison helpful as a framing device.

And I don't entirely agree that Kidd is defined by passing. Size and physicality were a big part of his game, as they are with Smart.

TroyD92 · Post #325 » by **TroyD92** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:25 pm

sidney lanier wrote:
emunney wrote:It makes no sense stylistically. Kidd is defined by his passing. Would you compare Glenn Robinson to Magic Johnson?

I can't think of anybody I'd compare to Magic Johnson. Not because comparing any prospect to a HOFer has inherent problems, but because nobody has ever been like Magic enough stylistically to make the comparison helpful as a framing device.

And I don't entirely agree that Kidd is defined by passing. Size and physicality were a big part of his game, as they are with Smart.

Jason KIdd was defined by his transcendent point guard skills. There won't be another player like Kidd for at least a decade. His ability to subtly change speeds and direction while dribbling was one of a kind for a guy his size.

The only thing Smart and Kidd have in common is their similar size (which is not a valid reason to compare players) and the fact that they will struggle big time shooting the ball early in their careers.

LUKE23 · Post #326 » by **LUKE23** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:25 pm

Kidd is definitely defined by his passing/open court speed combination. Sure, size helped, but it wouldn't have mattered if he didn't have the innate vision and court sense that he did. Basically, you can't compare him and Smart, when Smart doesn't have the thing that made Kidd great.

Chuck Diesel · Post #327 » by **Chuck Diesel** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:28 pm

It'd be cool if we could buy a pick around fifteen or sixteen and stash Dario Saric for a couple years.

Whiteman · Post #328 » by **Whiteman** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:22 pm

A couple of thoughts on the top picks:

Wiggins and Parker have poor assist numbers for wing players. Wiggins' 1.8 assists/40 min pace adjusted isn't good, and Parker is worse with 1.5 (even lower in conference play). For perspective, Embiid averaged 2.3, James McAdoo 2.2. Julius Randle, whose passing some people complain about, is tied with Wiggins at 1.8.

The current NBA values players who can defend inside, and players who are scoring threats from the perimeter (including penetration). Great defense is more valuable on a rim protector (Embiid) than on a perimeter defender (Smart, Wiggins); vice versa for offense. Smart's strengths (physical dominance, drive to win) would be more valuable on a big, and his relative weaknesses (shooting, maybe passing) are worse on a perimeter player.

Wiggins might have the highest floor in this draft. His shooting improved during the season to the point where it's become a weapon. He is quick off the floor, and his release point is so high the shot is almost unblockable. At the very least Wiggins should be a solid defender and dangerous off-the-ball player, with his spot up shooting and cuts to the basket. Whether he gets anywhere near his perceived ceiling is another matter.

cinematographer · Post #329 » by **cinematographer** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:30 pm

sidney lanier wrote:
emunney wrote:Kyle Anderson is basically LeBron James.

I just don't see the utility of a comparison to a Hall of Famer if it requires the caveat of "If you ignore the thing that put him in the Hall of Fame".

It's shorthand for defining a style. Looking at it as a qualitative comparison is foolish.

Smart : Kidd :: Larry Sanders : Hakeem

sidney lanier · Post #330 » by **sidney lanier** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:07 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:I always see Smart as Fat Lever.

If that's who he turns out to be, I'd move him ahead of Parker on my list, just for the steals.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86E5-KyfAbQ[/youtube]

Bernman · Post #331 » by **Bernman** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:09 pm

Smart is kind of an advanced statistical darling, though. He was #1 in the nation in advanced statistical plus minus. And he was #1 among major conference point guards, #2 among guards in general (behind Jordan Adams, frowny face that he didn't declare), in PER.

I think he's just suffering somewhat from the Bridgewater effect. And most of the other guys toward the top of this draft are Blake Bortles. Not that Bortles doesn't have his own merit. But he is getting nitpicked at a lot less because he's been around for a much shorter period.

Buckrageous · Post #332 » by **Buckrageous** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:41 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:I always see Smart as Fat Lever.

You mean that as a compliment? I would assume so but some of these comparisons baffle me, like saying Parker is Melo like thats a bad thing.

Buckrageous · Post #333 » by **Buckrageous** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:42 pm

sidney lanier wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:I always see Smart as Fat Lever.

If that's who he turns out to be, I'd move him ahead of Parker on my list, just for the steals.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86E5-KyfAbQ[/youtube]

Id take the rebounds as well.

TroyD92 · Post #334 » by **TroyD92** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:43 pm

Buckrageous wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:I always see Smart as Fat Lever.

You mean that as a compliment? I would assume so but some of these comparisons baffle me, like saying Parker is Melo like thats a bad thing.

I'd never want Melo on a team I was building.

skones · Post #335 » by **skones** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:57 pm

TroyD92 wrote:
Buckrageous wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:I always see Smart as Fat Lever.

You mean that as a compliment? I would assume so but some of these comparisons baffle me, like saying Parker is Melo like thats a bad thing.

I'd never want Melo on a team I was building.

As I stated earlier, Melo's downfall is his stubbornness and at times his selfishness. What about Parkers demeanor makes you think that he'd have those same negatives? Saying you wouldn't want Melo on a team your building is just off base. You could do A LOT worse as a starting point.

Bernman · Post #336 » by **Bernman** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:03 pm

I'd want Melo on a team I was trying to build rapidly to win an arena vote so they don't move in a few years. Especially when I possess arguably the most impactful defensive player in the league already.

Although maybe not if Melo was threatening to go on a Mormon Mission for a couple of those years.

Baddy Chuck · Post #337 » by **Baddy Chuck** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:22 pm

If Parker was guaranteed to be Melo I'd take him #1 in almost any draft, I don't see it though. I think you're looking at that being his absolute peak with a much, much lower guarantee.

LUKE23 · Post #338 » by **LUKE23** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:30 pm

I see Parker as between Dog and Melo in terms of production, with likely better intangibles/leadership/etc than either.

PkrsBcksGphsMqt · Post #339 » by **PkrsBcksGphsMqt** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:45 pm

It's not apples to apples, but if Parker were Melo, don't you think he would have taken his team a little further in the tournament? Melo carried a team to a Championship as a freshman. Parker couldn't even get by Mercer. Again, not apples to apples, but I think it is relevant in the discussion. If Parker is such an alpha dog, you'd think Duke could have rode him to an opening round win over a team like Mercer.

Baddy Chuck · Post #340 » by **Baddy Chuck** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:10 pm

I'm going to say between Jamison and Robinson before I see more, obiovulsy potential for more is there. Guys like Pierce and Melo have disgustingly good isolation and midrange post/pull up games, I really don't think Parker has shown anything substantial in those areas. I mean unassisted in halfcourt he's shooting like 25% from mid range and under 45% at the rim, doesn't exactly scream transcendent offensive player to me.

Who's your pick?