PG Bulls - Loss

[steger_3434]

Gos might think a little too highly of bud but he’s not wrong. Bud was a top 5 coach. The odds of getting someone better than him was slim to none. The only times we lost in the playoffs was because of covid, injuries, and a young Giannis against Toronto. That’s it. Bud never lost with a healthy team. We were mediocre immediately before him, and we look awfully mediocre immediately after him.


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[greekbuck34]

id also like to say... for years ive had these brief moments where ive thought trading giannis for the ultimate package would be a good move for us. then i calm down and im like no.... thats mfing stupid.

thats how we all should have viewed bud too.

Dude are you talking about a coach or Jesus?
Are you really comparing the worth of a generational player with just another of the Popovich's spawns?

Bud was not only outcoached in most of our series but he was also too stupid to make any adjustments in 5 years straight against the same teams and the same coaches. He constantly played the advanced stats instead of making logical decisions.

He had a brilliant plan A and zero alternatives. The book was out on him years ago and his plan A got exploited. The drop defense was a gamble simulator on good shooting teams missing wide open shots. Our offense was a dead end against the wall defense because he loved to fill our guardline with the much needed for him unstable shooting defenders and zero real PGs.

We were 2-3 against the Hawks in the last two seasons with Bud. They are one of the dozen NBA teams that knew exactly how to beat Bud. They love playing against the drop and centers like Brook. And yet you can't believe it's not a certain win somehow because we fired Bud.

90% of a team's upside is because of the talent of their best players. Bud was lucky enough to get hired on the beginning of Giannis prime years. He left and Giannis remained exactly the same if not better under a, as you say, terrible coach.

[Ayt]

Gos might think a little too highly of bud but he’s not wrong. Bud was a top 5 coach. The odds of getting someone better than him was slim to none. The only times we lost in the playoffs was because of covid, injuries, and a young Giannis against Toronto. That’s it. Bud never lost with a healthy team. We were mediocre immediately before him, and we look awfully mediocre immediately after him.


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And yet, Nurse was right there.

[midranger]

It’s not revisionist history to say Bud was outcoached in every series we lost. That was the book on him in Atlanta as well. He wouldn’t/couldn’t evolve.

When we won the championship, it’s not like he beat a murderer’s row of coaches. He BARELY (barely!) slipped by Nash minus two superstars.

I’m happy for what he did here, but it was time to move on.

Adrian Griffin was obviously a nonsensical and terrible hire. That’s a separate discussion though.

[fan230]

Gos might think a little too highly of bud but he’s not wrong. Bud was a top 5 coach. The odds of getting someone better than him was slim to none. The only times we lost in the playoffs was because of covid, injuries, and a young Giannis against Toronto. That’s it. Bud never lost with a healthy team. We were mediocre immediately before him, and we look awfully mediocre immediately after him.


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This is exactly correct, about the before and after mediocrity. Given this context, clearly we were wrong to get a new coach, any coach, given that our championship window was so small. It was the easy way out, for Horst.

I am sure that if by any chance we were to bring Bud back, he would quickly move us away from our current situation.

There was little reason to over react, and ‘move on’ from Bud. Note some of the contexts: in the penultimate game with the Heat last season we were comfortably leading the Heat except in the last 4 minutes, Khris and Jrue’s games just dropped off acutely; Giannis was returning from injury but still had a triple double. In the final game when Jrue was unable to stop Butler, Bud tried putting Wes on Butler but Jrue waved Wes off and we know the result of that. Finally, Bud’s mind was very upset as he had just lost his brother. And what did the Bucks do: fire Bud. Quite incredible and sad; not smart, not right.

So yes, your point about mediocrity immediately before and after Bud, clearly stands out.

[midranger]

Nick Nurse in one playoff series beat Bud by literally throwing 4 defenders in front Giannis for 4 consecutive games and Bud couldn’t figure out a single counter.

Let’s not pretend that the man was some savant.

[MiltownHawkeye]

Just thinking back to how we were writing Bud's obituary after game 2 of the Nets series

[midranger]

The “Bud couldn’t tell Jrue that he was no longer to guard Jimmy Butler for…reasons” excuse may be my favorite Bud excuse.

In an elimination game. Game 5, that is. Of round 1. At home. Against a play-in team.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

id also like to say... for years ive had these brief moments where ive thought trading giannis for the ultimate package would be a good move for us. then i calm down and im like no.... thats mfing stupid.

thats how we all should have viewed bud too.

Dude are you talking about a coach or Jesus?
Are you really comparing the worth of a generational player with just another of the Popovich's spawns?.

im talking about the impact of an allstar who became viewed as a generational player because of a coach.

now that hes an allstar again it more or less simplifies my point.

[Prez]

Nick Nurse is a better coach than Bud and we had him right there as one of our finalists. Firing Bud was a totally defensible move given who was available, we just totally botched the replacement, in large part due to a non-yet-extended Giannis screwing everything up. It sucks but it is what it is, they just need to have the stones to make the right move now, now that Giannis is extended.

[JayMKE]

Bud is a great coach and he had a lot of success here, sandwiched between Jason Kidd and Adrian Griffin really illustrates the contrast between these ex-player vibes only coaches and guys who actually know wtf they're doing. If you guys had known the Bucks were going to acquire Dame how many of you still wanted Bud fired? I have no doubt he'd have the team looking like a juggernaut right now.

Remember the Bucks also kicked the tires on Mark Jackson and Monty Williams too, probably Doc Rivers too, so there is definitely a strain of DUMB in the Bucks FO

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Nick Nurse in one playoff series beat Bud by literally throwing 4 defenders in front Giannis for 4 consecutive games and Bud couldn’t figure out a single counter.

Let’s not pretend that the man was some savant.

well we could have shot a bit better and hit our fts.....and probably with jrue instead of bled.... that series has a different result.

but as it relates to giannis.....if giannis is going to insist on playing that way there really isnt a counter. bud basically turned giannis into an mvp with that appraoch but there isnt really a backup plan with him as we knew before and were seeing again

that wasnt really anything to do with coaching

[James_Henry]

bud was the greatest coach of all time for us and it wasnt close.


Bud vs Don Nelson ? Give me Nelson. Always. And before you say "he never won a chip," the Bucks were going up against Erving and Bird in those Sidney years. With Mokeski, not Giannis.

[midranger]

I honestly have no idea what the answer is, and I’m not going to take the time to do it, but gut vibes tell me that if you compiled the 4th quarter playoff scores of the Bucks vs their opponents of the 5 years he was here, it’d point to why he was canned.

For all the excuses, 4th quarter meltdowns were our MO under Bud. And I do think that’s indicative of a coaching deficiency.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

bud was the greatest coach of all time for us and it wasnt close.


Bud vs Don Nelson ? Give me Nelson. Always. And before you say "he never won a chip," the Bucks were going up against Erving and Bird in those Sidney years. With Mokeski, not Giannis.

best record 4 out of 5. we dominated the league with bud... AND got a chip. nelson did neither.

i grew up loving that 80s team and nelson along with it. nelson was one hell of a coach and its close but i give bud the edge. that 80s team played to its best ability but it was a faaaaaar easily blend of talent to work with than bud had.

bud took every last player from siannis down and put them in the best possible chance for them to succeed. its literally unprecedented to have 5 **** years and not have a "bad contract".

bud was shockingly good. like it was literally shocking. he spoiled the hell out of yall and if you dont agree with me youre putting credit all up and down this lineup where it simply isnt due

[midranger]

Nick Nurse in one playoff series beat Bud by literally throwing 4 defenders in front Giannis for 4 consecutive games and Bud couldn’t figure out a single counter.

Let’s not pretend that the man was some savant.

well we could have shot a bit better and hit our fts.....and probably with jrue instead of bled.... that series has a different result.

but as it relates to giannis.....if giannis is going to insist on playing that way there really isnt a counter. bud basically turned giannis into an mvp with that appraoch but there isnt really a backup plan with him as we knew before and were seeing again

that wasnt really anything to do with coaching

Hahaha.

And if the Raptors shot even better and had prime Michael Jordan, they win in 4 blowouts.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

And if the Raptors shot even better and had prime Michael Jordan, they win in 4 blowouts.

now you understand how basketball works. we had the better system for our players....but they had the better players.

sometimes great coaches cant outcoach better players. its not a hard concept if youve watched the game as long as i have.

coach bud had the ultimate system and as i said... it wasnt just for our rather simple minded superstar... it related to everybody else on this roster. besides middleton.....mostly castoffs that got here on a minimum or non difference makers that he turned into playoff contributors year after year after year. eventually tho that lack of talent will break down no matter how effective a system is.

its a shot makers league. you put up a system against a team of shotmakers and the results can vary

even bledsoe. look at what heppened there when he moved on. its hard to believe we were even trying to win with the guy. its amazing what bud did.... literally amazing

[greekbuck34]

id also like to say... for years ive had these brief moments where ive thought trading giannis for the ultimate package would be a good move for us. then i calm down and im like no.... thats mfing stupid.

thats how we all should have viewed bud too.

Dude are you talking about a coach or Jesus?
Are you really comparing the worth of a generational player with just another of the Popovich's spawns?.

im talking about the impact of an allstar who became viewed as a generational player because of a coach.

now that hes an allstar again it more or less simplifies my point.

You are out of your mind ghost. I'm glad you are atleast able of calming down after a while and realise you're stupid though as you said.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

state of the team now?

superstars that dont fit and a system that puts everybody else in a position to fail. weve seen year after year in the league how common that is around the league when the wrong to guys get next to each other and the chemistry on a team as a whole falls a part. there was maybe 5 guys on the planet that could have duplicated what we had. but to me when you have one, and he goes, with veteran teams..... its hard to put humpty dumpty back together again no matter who you are

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

You are out of your mind ghost. I'm glad you are atleast able of calming down after a while and realise you're stupid though as you said.

every once in a while i go off on an emotional tangent and i act stupid. im a fan.

but thats no different than anybody here except im one of the few that will admit it when im wrong.

but most of the other time im the first one to sniff the turd AND the loudest about it. my track record of it speaks for itself and i could give 10 examples of literally arguing my ass off a year before everybody last person on this board had my take. jennings, thon, sanders the list goes on and on and the guys that have been here long enough know it too.

so bump threads when major moves went down and look at my takes. i havent been wrong much on stuff like this. my big one was brandon knight but thats before i started to rely on the numbers i do now. learned a valuable lesson there that ive not repeated often since.

im saying... clearly.... with bud gone our run is over. doesnt even matter who was coming in next. were a second round team until giannis and dame demand out. thats how its gonna go. disagree if you want but thats where im at and like.... its obvious?