'14 Draft Thread - Now With a Poll: VOTE OR DIE.

[LUKE23]

Yeah, I'd do that one. Acquiring Asik is beyond pointless for us.

[whatthe_buck!?]

Boozer DID sign there, and he was a big time free agent that summer whether you want to admit it or not. How about Ben Wallace, a perennial DPOY candidate that was supposed to be the final piece for big money for that team. I'd say that's a rather significant get as well. When the Kobe-Shaq fiasco was going on, there were more than a few whispers of Kobe Bryant possibly landing in Chicago. What it comes down to is dollars and cents. Chicago is the third largest city in the country, will give more exposure to professional athletes, and thus, will open up opportunities for guys who choose to play there. Let's not forget that they've been able to keep their players IN CHICAGO. Something Milwaukee will always have trouble with when offering up comparable monetary values to players. Why is this? The market. Why you want to boil this down to free agents and free agents alone is beyond me.

Chicago IS NOT a tier below teams like Houston and Atlanta. You're honestly going to sit there and throw ATLANTA at me with the points you're making about Chicago? You can't be serious.

It seems it is you who misunderstands the "myriad" of factors at play here, much like you fail to see the hypocrisy intertwined in your last paragraph.

Why you're bringing up tanking, like I'm against it, is rather hilarious, given how I've been against committing extra money to players like Salmons, Ilyasova, and Moute in recent memory, while others throw around statements like, "fair market value" which ultimately leads to us being a treadmill team in the first place. When have I ever said tanking was a bad idea?

A washed up Ben Wallace? Carlos Boozer after they maxed him out to get him?? That's the best u got? Once again, thank u for continuing to argue against yourself for me. And hypocrisy based on what, that I put Atlanta a tier above Chicago as far as being a FA destination for top NBA FAs? What youre implying makes no sense and I most certainly stand by that ranking 100%. Final question: so it's your claim that you've never argued against tanking being the best option for the Bucks this season? Are u really actually making that claim Skones??

I was in favor of dealing for Rondo under certain principles where we were to give up very little. Yes. Much of that was due to the reality of this franchise and their refusal to tank. The offseason then blew up in managements face and made it a distinct possibility whether intentional or not because of the limited number of options the team had going forward. If you remember all of this, then you'd also remember myself being one of the very few on this board claiming that this team would be god awful, and saying that we'd be in the running for a very good pick next summer arguing with quite a few people who claimed we'd be a "better team" because we "subtracted" Ellis and Jennings, thus putting us back in that 37-40 win limbo. But yes I am saying that, I never once argued against tanking, or claimed that it would be a bad idea for this franchise to do so.

Simply not true and u know it. Number one, advocating the acquisition of win now assets over playing the young guys and riding out the results is literally the opposite of advocating tanking (i.e. yes u have argued against the tank), and number two I have witnessed u explicitly questioning the value of high draft picks in building good teams, and that's honestly the number one symptom of extreme tank denial. It's deluded enough to believe that top draft position isn't the most important factor in getting the superstars necessary for championship contention, do u really want to now show your delusion now extends to trying to claim you never advocated anti-tank strategies this year or espoused the flawed reasoning for why tanking is a bad strategy??

[CanadaBucks]

Yeah, I'd do that one. Acquiring Asik is beyond pointless for us.

Hard to evaluate from other team's POV but I don't see any team getting ripped off on that deal. The other two teams get what they need

[bizarro]

I don't think there's any way Portland does that deal. Why would they? Lopez has been great for them (3 double doubles in a row and it really looks like he's coming into his own)...T-Rob is a good bench player for them and McCollum has to intrigue them once he gets healthy. I think there's no way they do this. They like their current Center rotation of reasonably priced and young Lopez w/ Frieland who is one of the tops in the league in offensive rebounding.

[Baddy Chuck]

They'd do it for a guy who can put up the raw stats Robin Lopez can on top of providing some of the leagues best interior defense instead of some of the leagues worst interior defense.

[bizarro]

They'd do it for a guy who can put up the raw stats Robin Lopez can on top of providing some of the leagues best interior defense instead of some of the leagues worst interior defense.

Have you watched Portland's games? I'm not claiming Lopez has been a gang buster by any stretch...but Portland is giving up the 5th best ppg in the West. They're sitting at 6-2. Lopez has been a big part of it. I just think it's a preposterous notion to think they'd mess with developing chemistry on their young squad. I agree Asik is a legitimately skilled an top-tier defender. But, I just don't see Portland messing with what they've built over the past 1.5 years, while they're experiencing success, for Asik. I'll just agree to disagree.

[Baddy Chuck]

I've watched 2 Portland games this season. Both of them Lopez made DeMarcus Cousins look like the best player in the last decade.

He is an atrocious defender and is doing nothing on offense or rebounding that Asik can't replicate or surpass.

They aren't winning because of anything Robin Lopez is doing on the court. And Joel Freeland?

[ReasonablySober]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/espnandykatz/status/401213801678536704[/tweet]

[bizarro]

I've watched 2 Portland games this season. Both of them Lopez made DeMarcus Cousins look like the best player in the last decade.

He is an atrocious defender and is doing nothing on offense or rebounding that Asik can't replicate or surpass.

They aren't winning because of anything Robin Lopez is doing on the court. And Joel Freeland?

I hear you. And, I want to be clear I'm not touting Freeland - for obvious reasons. However, he has been good off their bench in limited minutes. I just don't see Portland doing it. Asik would be an upgrade, no doubt. I just don't see them trading away their young depth considering they've head relative success early and Lopez is improving. We'll see.

[BUCKnation]

Anyone have a good breakdown of Aaron Gordon? I haven't seen him other than some of those mixtapes on youtube. He looks like a point forward version of Blake Griffin.

[ReddWing]

Come off it. You all know were drafting Dekker.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Baddy Chuck]

Anyone have a good breakdown of Aaron Gordon? I haven't seen him other than some of those mixtapes on youtube. He looks like a point forward version of Blake Griffin.

Just off my early impressions he's an uber athletic face up four with the mindset of a small forward. That combo scares me a lot.

[Ayt]

The Planet where the city of Chicago isnt a big enough draw to win FA battles against other top FA destinations when in direct competition? Honestly, name a top free agent the Bulls have signed in the modern free agency era that didnt occur while the greatest player in basketball history was playing there? Inotherwords besides Dennis Rodman, who have they signed when in direct competition with places like Miami, LA, NY etc? Please answer Carlos Boozer or Kyle Korver so I can laugh even harder at a post of yours than I already have been.

To be perfectly accurate, it's all about tiers, yes Chicago is generally a more desirable FA destination than Toronto and Toronto is in turn on a higher tier as a FA destination than Milwaukee, but the bottom line is all three are on tiers below LA, NY, Miami, Atlanta, Houston, etc. primarily because of the climate (but also in a large part due to the state taxes in those respective locations).

It's ok that you don't have a sophisticated understanding of the myriad factors that influence an NBA star to chose one city over another, not everyone is capable of comprehending complex issues such as the one u are trying to force yourself into so u can make angry veiled insults. It's probably a big part of the reason u have such a failure of comprehension when it comes to following the pretty obviously correct logic that leads one to embrace tanking as the best solution to the incredibly adverse situation the Bucks find themselves in at the moment...

Boozer DID sign there, and he was a big time free agent that summer whether you want to admit it or not. How about Ben Wallace, a perennial DPOY candidate that was supposed to be the final piece for big money for that team. I'd say that's a rather significant get as well. When the Kobe-Shaq fiasco was going on, there were more than a few whispers of Kobe Bryant possibly landing in Chicago. What it comes down to is dollars and cents. Chicago is the third largest city in the country, will give more exposure to professional athletes, and thus, will open up opportunities for guys who choose to play there. Let's not forget that they've been able to keep their players IN CHICAGO. Something Milwaukee will always have trouble with when offering up comparable monetary values to players. Why is this? The market. Why you want to boil this down to free agents and free agents alone is beyond me.

Chicago IS NOT a tier below teams like Houston and Atlanta. You're honestly going to sit there and throw ATLANTA at me with the points you're making about Chicago? You can't be serious.

It seems it is you who misunderstands the "myriad" of factors at play here, much like you fail to see the hypocrisy intertwined in your last paragraph.

Why you're bringing up tanking, like I'm against it, is rather hilarious, given how I've been against committing extra money to players like Salmons, Ilyasova, and Moute in recent memory, while others throw around statements like, "fair market value" which ultimately leads to us being a treadmill team in the first place. When have I ever said tanking was a bad idea?

A washed up Ben Wallace? Carlos Boozer after they maxed him out to get him?? That's the best u got? Once again, thank u for continuing to argue against yourself for me. And hypocrisy based on what, that I put Atlanta a tier above Chicago as far as being a FA destination for top NBA FAs? What youre implying makes no sense and I most certainly stand by that ranking 100%. Final question: so it's your claim that you've never argued against tanking being the best option for the Bucks this season? Are u really actually making that claim Skones??

A washed up Ben Wallace who had taken home the DPOY the previous two seasons (and four out of the previous five)? That washed up Ben Wallace? Carlos Boozer, coming off a season in which he averaged 20-11-3 while shooing 56% from the floor, who was pursued by multiple teams for the max that offseason?

As you put it, that's the best u got?

[Baddy Chuck]

I hear you. And, I want to be clear I'm not touting Freeland - for obvious reasons. However, he has been good off their bench in limited minutes. I just don't see Portland doing it. Asik would be an upgrade, no doubt. I just don't see them trading away their young depth considering they've head relative success early and Lopez is improving. We'll see.

They've had relative success without the contribution of the two young players they'd be trading and have a disgruntled superstar in his prime at the helm. I guess I don't understand why you don't think they'd trade a couple young players who are contributing less then 1% of the production causing them to win for a ginormous upgrade.

[whatthe_buck!?]

Boozer DID sign there, and he was a big time free agent that summer whether you want to admit it or not. How about Ben Wallace, a perennial DPOY candidate that was supposed to be the final piece for big money for that team. I'd say that's a rather significant get as well. When the Kobe-Shaq fiasco was going on, there were more than a few whispers of Kobe Bryant possibly landing in Chicago. What it comes down to is dollars and cents. Chicago is the third largest city in the country, will give more exposure to professional athletes, and thus, will open up opportunities for guys who choose to play there. Let's not forget that they've been able to keep their players IN CHICAGO. Something Milwaukee will always have trouble with when offering up comparable monetary values to players. Why is this? The market. Why you want to boil this down to free agents and free agents alone is beyond me.

Chicago IS NOT a tier below teams like Houston and Atlanta. You're honestly going to sit there and throw ATLANTA at me with the points you're making about Chicago? You can't be serious.

It seems it is you who misunderstands the "myriad" of factors at play here, much like you fail to see the hypocrisy intertwined in your last paragraph.

Why you're bringing up tanking, like I'm against it, is rather hilarious, given how I've been against committing extra money to players like Salmons, Ilyasova, and Moute in recent memory, while others throw around statements like, "fair market value" which ultimately leads to us being a treadmill team in the first place. When have I ever said tanking was a bad idea?

A washed up Ben Wallace? Carlos Boozer after they maxed him out to get him?? That's the best u got? Once again, thank u for continuing to argue against yourself for me. And hypocrisy based on what, that I put Atlanta a tier above Chicago as far as being a FA destination for top NBA FAs? What youre implying makes no sense and I most certainly stand by that ranking 100%. Final question: so it's your claim that you've never argued against tanking being the best option for the Bucks this season? Are u really actually making that claim Skones??

A washed up Ben Wallace who had taken home the DPOY the previous two seasons (and four out of the previous five)? That washed up Ben Wallace? Carlos Boozer, coming off a season in which he averaged 20-11-3 while shooing 56% from the floor, who was pursued by multiple teams for the max that offseason?

As you put it, that's the best u got?

As u occasionally have a tendency to do Ayt, u have impulsively and blindly wandered into a discussion with no understanding of the context under which it is taking place. We were talking about the ability of Chicago as a city to help the Bulls lure SUPERSTAR players in free agency. Nobody was trying to diss ur boy Wallace as far as how good a player he was in his prime, but the fact is he signed for -correct me if I'm wrong- 12 mil per season with the Bulls in FA which, if my calculations are correct was around 5 mil per season short of a max contract at the time.

Not a superstar Ayt, not particularly close. Case closed. I could have used a different characterization than "washed up" if i was trying to be as accurate as possible, but being that precise with my wording wasnt necessary based on the context of the conversation at hand (which u clearly didnt take the time to look back and read up on). If I was trying to embarrass u I would add that that particular contract (which, just to reiterate, was well under the level a superstar would have been signed to) became a total albatross for the Bulls BY THE END OF HIS FIRST SEASON WITH THE TEAM. That doesn't happen when u sign superstars. It also doesn't happen with superstars that the team they were with before declined to make a comparable offer.

In the words of Walter, "SHUT THE F UP DONNY!!!!"

Edit: And btw I can't believe I have to make this point, but just so u dont think I'm trying to duck the point u made about boozer's pre-FA season, I think we all remember that Boozer was clearly, even at the time, looked at as AT LEAST a tier below Lebron, Wade, Amare and Bosh. If u are willing to dispute that then u either weren't following the NBA closely enough around that time or don't know ur stuff, but I know u wont dispute that because I know u do know ur stuff and I'm sure u were following the NBA as closely or likely more closely than myself at the time...

[whatthe_buck!?]

Come off it. You all know were drafting Dekker.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RealGM Forums mobile app

Lol. And somehow I wouldn't be upset if that happened considering Dekker as a basketball player is basically a perfect cross between Larry Bird and God himself.

[bizarro]

Come off it. You all know were drafting Dekker.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RealGM Forums mobile app

Lol. And somehow I wouldn't be upset if that happened considering Dekker as a basketball player is basically a perfect cross between Larry Bird and God himself.

He was born and raised in Wisconsin, you know. He could pair well with Racine's first son, Caron Butler. Hell, he may even help us lure back our favorite boy, Jon Leuer. It has the makings of a blockbuster offseason. Jeebus, maybe, just maybe, we could even lure one of the Landry brothers. Drooling at the thought of it.

[bizarro]

I hear you. And, I want to be clear I'm not touting Freeland - for obvious reasons. However, he has been good off their bench in limited minutes. I just don't see Portland doing it. Asik would be an upgrade, no doubt. I just don't see them trading away their young depth considering they've head relative success early and Lopez is improving. We'll see.

They've had relative success without the contribution of the two young players they'd be trading and have a disgruntled superstar in his prime at the helm. I guess I don't understand why you don't think they'd trade a couple young players who are contributing less then 1% of the production causing them to win for a ginormous upgrade.

I think it's come out this season the reports of Aldridge's unhappiness have been blown out of proportion. Robinson is actually starting to find a niche for himself. Really. He's getting roughly 12-15 mpg in the early going and in his most recent outing he had 15 and 8. It's like he's finally understanding he isn't a scorer in this league but can do the little things and do them well.

This being said, you are right, they aren't contributing a lot to the overall production of the team. And, perhaps, they see Asik as the key to putting them over the hump in the West. I still just don't see them doing it. Call it an intuitive sense. But, obviously, I don't have my pulse on the organization's thinking and it would be a talent upgrade unquestionably.

[whatthe_buck!?]

Come off it. You all know were drafting Dekker.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RealGM Forums mobile app

Lol. And somehow I wouldn't be upset if that happened considering Dekker as a basketball player is basically a perfect cross between Larry Bird and God himself.

He was born and raised in Wisconsin, you know. He could pair well with Racine's first son, Caron Butler. Hell, he may even help us lure back our favorite boy, Jon Leuer. It has the makings of a blockbuster offseason. Jeebus, maybe, just maybe, we could even lure one of the Landry brothers. Drooling at the thought of it.

Im scared for u, if your sarcasm is misinterpreted by Dekker to be mean spirited he will rain his hellfire down upon u mercilessly...

[bizarro]

Lol. And somehow I wouldn't be upset if that happened considering Dekker as a basketball player is basically a perfect cross between Larry Bird and God himself.

He was born and raised in Wisconsin, you know. He could pair well with Racine's first son, Caron Butler. Hell, he may even help us lure back our favorite boy, Jon Leuer. It has the makings of a blockbuster offseason. Jeebus, maybe, just maybe, we could even lure one of the Landry brothers. Drooling at the thought of it.

Im scared for u, if your sarcasm is misinterpreted by Dekker to be mean spirited he will rain his hellfire down upon u mercilessly...

I've got a pair of Natty Ice's sneakers. Considering how ice cold he's been from beyond the arc and, in general, anywhere on the floor with his feet set...I think I'll fare quite well in a blaze