Stein: Strong possibility Bucks active due to slow start

[whatthe_buck!?]

I don't know why u guys aren't giving GOS the benefit of the doubt that he had a conversation with Cho at a Bobcats game. People on this board have talked to Hammond at one point or another. In fact, unless I'm mistaken I believe GOS talked to Hammond a couple years back and posted the pictures to prove it. Settle down u guys.

[whatthe_buck!?]

GOS give it up. There are plenty of shooters in the league and only a few elite defensive big men. Sanders has double the value of Mayo.

the sg position in the league right now is weaker than its ever been. theres centers of sanders caliber and impact all over the place.

but then again... maybe im wrong. you said he was elite right? which is the team thats gonna give us a bunch of youth and picks for him that im forgetting?

GoS, I have two honest, not-trying-to-be-a-dick questions for you:

-- Do you know how good Sanders' defense was last year, according to literally every advanced metric in the league?

-- Do you still prefer batting average to on base percentage when evaluating baseball players?

I could see both Mayo and Sanders both having negative value in the eyes of an NBA gm if they were to have serious questions about Larry's mental makeup, his work ethic and his off the court decision making. Plus I mean Sanders does make 4 mil a season more than Mayo. I don't believe it's true, I think GOS and apparantly Cho are wrong, but I could definitely see it.

[Wooderson]

I don't know why u guys aren't giving GOS the benefit of the doubt that he had a conversation with Cho at a Bobcats game. People on this board have talked to Hammond at one point or another. In fact, unless I'm mistaken I believe GOS talked to Hammond a couple years back and posted the pictures to prove it. Settle down u guys.

He very well could have spoken with Cho. It's just a convenient time for that story pop up given that he's been harping on Sanders being worthless for the last week.

[LedZepp007]

Proof is necessary when the argument being made is somewhat suspect.

So, according to some the values of Neal, Mayo, and Sanders are the same(ish)? Please.


Sanders>>Mayo>Neal value wise.

[whatthe_buck!?]

I don't know why u guys aren't giving GOS the benefit of the doubt that he had a conversation with Cho at a Bobcats game. People on this board have talked to Hammond at one point or another. In fact, unless I'm mistaken I believe GOS talked to Hammond a couple years back and posted the pictures to prove it. Settle down u guys.

He very well could have spoken with Cho. It's just a convenient time for that story pop up given that he's been harping on Sanders being worthless for the last week.

Maybe that shows cause and effect. Maybe GoS has been especially down on Sanders ever since talking to Cho and hearing an actual NBA GM talk about his perception of his value. I know if i talked to an NBA gm and heard him speak badly about a particular player it would be cause for me to seriously reevaluate my previous opinion if there was a difference of opinion. And btw, I actually thought I remember GOS mentioning he sat next to and chatted up Cho at a Bobcats game a couple weeks ago, I may be off with that though I admit...

[whatthe_buck!?]

Proof is necessary when the argument being made is somewhat suspect.

So, according to some the values of Neal, Mayo, and Sanders are the same(ish)? Please.


Sanders>>Mayo>Neal value wise.

Look, I disagree with GOS, I think Sanders has much greater value than both those guys even when u take into account his greater contract and his "troubles", but that's no reason to doubt GOS's word without good reason to. Cho can be wrong too...

[Wooderson]

Maybe that shows cause and effect. Maybe GoS has been especially down on Sanders ever since talking to Cho and hearing an actual NBA talk about his perception of his value. I actually thought I remember GOS mentioning he sat next to and chatted up Cho at a Bobcats game a couple weeks ago, I may be off with that though I admit...

But why bring the story up now? There's an entire thread dedicated to whether the Bucks should trade Sanders and another about his injury where GOS has made a point to show his disdain for Sanders. Plus, the trade stuff has really picked up steam since Woeful tweeted that he spoke to an NBA exec who said Sanders didn't have any trade value.

I guess I could see a scenario where GOS went out of his way to approach Cho because of his disdain in order to get feedback on the subject, if it happened like last night at the GS game. More likely is that it was a tounge-in-cheek remark poking fun at the fact that none of us really have any idea what Sanders value is. It only takes one GM to set the bar in terms of value.

I think he's just trying to rustle some jimmies. And it's working.

[Baddy Chuck]

Mayo having similar value to Larry.

[whatthe_buck!?]

Maybe that shows cause and effect. Maybe GoS has been especially down on Sanders ever since talking to Cho and hearing an actual NBA talk about his perception of his value. I actually thought I remember GOS mentioning he sat next to and chatted up Cho at a Bobcats game a couple weeks ago, I may be off with that though I admit...

But why bring the story up now? There's an entire thread dedicated to whether the Bucks should trade Sanders and another about his injury where GOS has made a point to show his disdain for Sanders. Plus, the trade stuff has really picked up steam since Woeful tweeted that he spoke to an NBA exec who said Sanders didn't have any trade value.

I guess I could see a scenario where GOS went out of his way to approach Cho because of his disdain in order to get feedback on the subject, if it happened like last night at the GS game. More likely is that it was a tounge-in-cheek remark poking fun at the fact that none of us really have any idea what Sanders value is. It only takes one GM to set the bar in terms of value.

I think he's just trying to rustle some jimmies. And it's working.

First of all, let me just say that I hear you and u have a point but I believe GOS 100% if he says he talked to Cho. GOS has opinions that generally go against the grain and he definitely likes to stir up sh*t (full disclosure: I like posters that stir sh*t up on occasion) but he is in my view absolutely not a guy who's gonna make up an encounter with an NBA gm just to try to win a Internet argument.

Anyway the highlighted part is the key for me. It only takes one GM to set a players value. IMO there is no way there isn't one GM out there that wouldn't give up something of value for Sanders. Can't say the same thing for Mayo. Just because Cho or Woefuls source wouldn't doesnt mean there doesn't exist plenty of GMs who would...

[El Duderino]

Mayo having similar value to Larry.

No kidding

If both were unrestricted free agents, a bunch of teams would have heavy interest in signing Sanders and at good money. Mayo was stuck taking 8 million per from the Bucks because nobody else would pay him that kind of money.

[emunney]

Mayo having similar value to Larry.

No kidding

If both were unrestricted free agents, a bunch of teams would have heavy interest in signing Sanders and at good money. Mayo was stuck taking 8 million per from the Bucks because nobody else would pay him that kind of money.

Yeah, but the fact that we're talking about trade value brings them closer precisely because they were valued differently when they signed their contracts. Also the fact that Larry is on the shelf with an injury suffered by questionable means. Larry's also a poison pill provision player, so that doesn't help his trade value, either.

I still think Larry has more trade value, but it's not as absurd as it seems at first blush.

[Baddy Chuck]

PPP doesn't really make him less valuable at all, just harder to make the salaries work.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

you guys ran with this a ton.

i sat directly behind him in the last game, ive spoken with him and his metrics guys before. the last game it was cool watching them interact in the 4th qtr when his family left and they came down to sit with him. i literally had a direct look at their ipads the entire 4th qtr from the seat behind as they followed the league and pointed at names and numbers and stuff. we did talk about saveourbucks... tanking....the jefferson signing.... mayo....larry... ersan..... i probably asked to many questions of him. hes usually really friendly to me but at one point when i asked specific questions about ersan/larry he just smiled and told me he couldnt answer stuff like that. they all know i post on realgm and his guys read here everyday. theyve told me at previous games they cant go on record because of that fact alone.

our bucks guys value is a sense i have after watching the team in person from the vantage point i had. thats on me.. not him. its hard to even quantify what was said or wasnt said... or how much of it was just body langauge.... or maybe even my own impression of watching larry and the way he acted on our bench during the game that made me feel the way i did. really probably all of it id imagine.
what i do know is that i left that game that night not feeling very good about what our options were..... alot different then then when i went in.

so this is just on me. thats what im on record for. i shouldnt have said "i talked to a gm about their values"....mock away if you want. i know im a dumbass for posting stuff like this on here. i just made contact with phil handy...a close friend i had in college who is now a current assistant with the cavs. maybe i can get more from him altho if he gives it to me its not like im ever gonna be able to come right out and say that either.

[whatthe_buck!?]

you guys ran with this a ton.

i sat directly behind him in the last game, ive spoken with him and his metrics guys before. the last game it was cool watching them interact in the 4th qtr when his family left and they came down to sit with him. i literally had a direct look at their ipads the entire 4th qtr from the seat behind as they followed the league and pointed at names and numbers and stuff. we did talk about saveourbucks... tanking....the jefferson signing.... mayo....larry... ersan..... i probably asked to many questions of him. hes usually really friendly to me but at one point when i asked specific questions about ersan/larry he just smiled and told me he couldnt answer stuff like that. they all know i post on realgm and his guys read here everyday. theyve told me at previous games they cant go on record because of that fact alone.

our bucks guys value is a sense i have after watching the team in person from the vantage point i had. thats on me.. not him. its hard to even quantify what was said or wasnt said... or how much of it was just body langauge.... or maybe even my own impression of watching larry and the way he acted on our bench during the game that made me feel the way i did. really probably all of it id imagine.
what i do know is that i left that game that night not feeling very good about what our options were..... alot different then then when i went in.

so this is just on me. thats what im on record for. i shouldnt have said "i talked to a gm about their values"....mock away if you want. i know im a dumbass for posting stuff like this on here. i just made contact with phil handy...a close friend i had in college who is now a current assistant with the cavs. maybe i can get more from him altho if he gives it to me its not like im ever gonna be able to come right out and say that either.

If u have things u want to post that take a leap of faith from certain people post it, if they don't want to believe what u have to say that's up to them. Don't let people mocking u change what u post, there may be many more people that aren't mocking or posting anything at all that care about hearing your point and how u formed it...

[emunney]

PPP doesn't really make him less valuable at all, just harder to make the salaries work.

It does make him less valuable, because it means we're taking back less salary than we're sending out.

[whatthe_buck!?]

PPP doesn't really make him less valuable at all, just harder to make the salaries work.

It does make him less valuable, because it means we're taking back less salary than we're sending out.

You know what, I looked it up on the Salary Cap FAQ just to refresh my understanding of BYC and its affects on trades and after reading this I think I had it backwards, half of Larry's new salary is 6 mil for trade purposes but his actual salary is 3 mil so I think we have to take back more salary then we send out:

Base Year Compensation (BYC) is mostly an artifact of previous collective bargaining agreements. Its intent was to prevent teams from signing free agents to new contracts with salaries specifically intended to help facilitate trades. BYC was triggered when a team was over the cap and re-signed a player using the Larry Bird or Early Bird exception with a raise over 20%. Once triggered, BYC temporarily lowered the player's salary for salary-matching purposes (only), and therefore reduced or eliminated teams' ability to target salaries for trade purposes.

The 2011 CBA mostly eliminated BYC -- in fact, the term "Base Year Compensation" was removed from the agreement entirely. The rules formerly known as BYC now apply under just one circumstance -- during sign-and-trade transactions (see question number 89). If a team is over the cap and re-signs its Larry Bird or Early Bird free agent with a raise greater than 20%, in order to trade the player in a sign-and-trade arrangement, then the player's outgoing salary for trade purposes is either his previous salary or 50% of his new salary, whichever is greater. The team receiving the player always uses his new salary.

For example, a player made $5 million last season, is a Larry Bird free agent, and re-signs with his previous team (which is a taxpayer and therefore well over the cap) for $10 million. The signing is part of a sign-and-trade with another team, for that team's $10 million player. Since the conditions were satisfied the player's outgoing salary for trade purposes is $5 million. This trade would not be allowed, even though the players' new salaries match, since a taxpaying team cannot trade a $5 million player for a $10 million player. The highest salary this team could acquire in a sign-and-trade arrangement is $6.35 million1.

Once a sign-and-trade is complete, the player's actual salary is included in his new team's team salary.

In lieu of the previous BYC rules for ordinary trades, teams are now prohibited from trading players for three months or until January 15 (whichever is later) when the signing satisfies the BYC critieria2

[whatthe_buck!?]

Ok on second thought I still have it wrong, I guess the team taking Larry has to have 12 million in space or outgoing salaries but the bucks can only take like 7 and a half million back in return. Sorry emmuney, u had it right...

Edit: F*ck it I think I still have it wrong. I give up lol

[The Rebel]

Ok on second thought I still have it wrong, I guess the team taking Larry has to have 12 million in space or outgoing salaries but the bucks can only take like 7 and a half million back in return. Sorry emmuney, u had it right...

Edit: F*ck it I think I still have it wrong. I give up lol

From my understanding the PPP makes you average all the salary from this year and the extension, and that average is what the receiving team has to count as money coming in.

So to get the deal done you have to find a team with a TPE or cap space, or the deal has to be large with multiple teams and a bunch of salary moved around.

[LongLiveIverson]

What do you guys think of John Henson and a bad contract for Isiah Thomas and Jason Thompson

Thomas is averaging 23 and 7 per 36
gives you guys a solid guard on a cheap deal, and wouldnt interfere with the Tank too much

[Baddy Chuck]

What do you guys think of John Henson and a bad contract for Isiah Thomas and Jason Thompson

Thomas is averaging 23 and 7 per 36
gives you guys a solid guard on a cheap deal, and wouldnt interfere with the Tank too much

Think it's awful.