Official #2 Pick Thread - Ford #7: Parker

[Max Green]

I just hope that whoever we end with at 2, the board supports them and doesn't carry out a vendetta/agenda against said pick since he wasn't the guy they wanted.

Honestly, if the player does well no one is going to complain. If the player sucks, there is going to be a lot of complaining. That's just the way it is.

The debate will continue for many years as we watch Embiid, Wiggins, Parker, and to a lesser extent Exum develop.

If we Draft Parker & Philly drafts Wiggins or Vice Versa it's pretty much a given that our rivalry with them will be reborn.

[White+Purple]

Why is everyone so convinced parker is a great leader? I get that he's supposedly a nice smart young man but that's not the same as being a leader. Being a good character guy is also not the same as having a crazy competitive drive. which I actually question a little bit with parker since I can't see someone like kobe with a crazy competitive streak letting themselves get out of shape or playing lackadaisical defense like parker.

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Yeah I get a me-first, volume shooter type of vibe from him on the court. Off the court he's probably swell, but I'm not sure he's necessarily a great leader and teammate on the court. Is he going to be the guy making sure everyone is working out in the off season like a Kobe would? I see Giannis being more of a leader in that regard than Parker.

Yeah that really doesn't do much for me. I'm concerned about his work ethic, particularly if he is the leader in the lockeroom. If your leader gets fat in the offseason then the other guys aren't going to be very motivated to stay in shape either. That also doesn't really say anything about him not being a me-first, volume shooter type of player like Melo. Those guys aren't usually viewed as great teammates, especially when they don't play defense.

Wholeheartedly agree with the above posts.

[Bernman]

Wiggins should stop being compared to guys who can comfortably handle the basketball and/or anticipate, i.e.: Kobe, Paul George, McGrady, etc. More so he should be compared to guys who were big wings, freak athletes, and who rebounded and defended well in college. I'm thinking of players like these:

absolute best case - Dominique
optimistic - Marion
realistic - Finley
pessimistic - Childress

As far as that Dougie vs. NBA length video, I thought that was pretty interesting. It highlights how crafty he is at getting his shot off in spite of playing against longer, more athletic guys. I thought even most of the ones classified as bad looks were rather him just missing a shot he reasonably could have made. The ones where he was truly stifled were really the outliers. I don't think there's much question he'll be a good offensive player. It's just a matter of how good to outweigh the defensive issues, and somewhat rebounding as well in the halfcourt, especially if he's going to play some 4. I mean he can't jump from a standstill much to speak of, and you saw the rebounding #'s against the select opponents in the video were paltry. Phoenix was brought up, and I think that would actually be a good fit because Doug could shoot trail 3's in transition, could get a running start for his rebound attempts, and most importantly not have to mismatch up in the halfcourt too much against quicker 3's and bigger 4's. In a halfcourt I think he's a pretty true 3 because he'd press up against length and get blown by inside, out-muscled, and out-lengthed. Maybe he could be an average defending 3 in time though with anticipation. Sometimes he hounds perimeter players back and forth pretty well. I think with him the comparisons should be: best case - Mullin, optimistic - Peja, realistic - Tobias (better shooting, worse leaping around goal), pessimistic - Kapono.

[jakecronus8]

I've seen Duke players slap the floor when they play zone. If that's not leadership and charisma nothing is.

[jakecronus8]

WIggins is know for his all world athletic ability. Defensive potential. Shooting.

Worries are his handle and his not having a killer instinct

Parker can score from anywhere on the floor, has a good handle and an underrated athlete.

Defensive ability is his biggest weakness.

I really don't have an issue drafting either one. If you could combine the best things about these guys you would have a cross bread between Lebron and KD.

First I look at Gainnis. He is a facilitator. I think he will be best with the ball in his hands. He will get the the rim/free throw line at will. Does either fit better with him? I think they both fit well. Although Parker will be a little bit more of a ball stopper. When you get the alpha dog that is what happens. So this does not make my decision any easier.

I also think being who we are we need to go after the one who will be a Super Star. Sadly niether is a guarentee to be. Wiggins ceiling is higher. Parkers floor is higher. I need the Super star. I'm giving this point to Wiggins.

I look at size and athletic ability for position. A 6'8 3/4" shooting guard that will be a top 2 athlete in the league from day one. Or the 6'9" Power forward that can score from anywhere but will struggle defensivly. Again I'm going with Wiggins.

To me it is easy. We need to swing for the fences and take wiggins. He doesnt need to be an alpha dog right away. The tools are there for him to be one. Paul George is not an alpha dog but just dropped 37 on the heat. You don't need to be a ball stopper to be an elite scorer.

The playoffs are showing what you need to do to be a scorer in the nba. You need to be able to live at the free throw line and be an above average three point shooter. Defense tightens up in the post season. It all about spacing and ball movement. Alpha dogs get eaten up in the playoffs.

Pretty much says it all.

[paulpressey25]

absolute best case - Dominique
.

Now you are making sense. I hadn't thought of Wiggy as Dominique Wilkins, but that's a heck of a good comparison on a number of levels.

[Bernman]

If Philly must have Wiggins and Jabari is our guy, we need to exploit this.

In a perfect world, that's true. But unfortunately in this one Lasry keeps going around and telling everybody who will listen that Parker will be the pick (unless maybe Embiid is there). While there is a chance (although I doubt it because he's saying it in various private settings to fans) that these are smokescreens, it doesn't exactly set up a trade with Philly for Wiggins. It sets up trades for the other 2 guys, especially Parker. The rumor has long from Philly been that they want Wiggins instead, although that could be a smokescreen too I suppose. One would think they wouldn't Embiid or Exum because they are redundant w/ Noel and MCW. I think there is actually a better chance of a panic trade up by Philly with us if surprisingly Parker goes #1, leaving their only hope to be we don't take Wiggins. And I don't know if they can risk that.

[DanoMac]

Someone before brought up the question as if anyone in this draft has the Russell Westbrook killer mentality.

That's a VERY interesting point to bring up. IIRC, Westbrook was always regarded as soft spoken and extremely humble at UCLA. I never remember him being anything like the Russell Westbrook we see now.

Those things grow on people. Once the player sees he can hang with the big boys in the NBA, then the confidence/cockiness will come (talking about Wiggins).

[Bernman]

Now you are making sense. I hadn't thought of Wiggy as Dominique Wilkins, but that's a heck of a good comparison on a number of levels.

Just to reiterate, that's the absolute best case, with Wiggins using his size, freakish athleticism, and motor to score a bunch of points on the primary and secondary breaks ala Nique.

And when it comes to the draft, seldom am I not making sense. I'm actually worried this assessment on Wiggins is off point now because you are agreeing with it even after you got drunk off watching workout highlights.

[breakchains]

Again, I don't care too much at all about Wiggins' supposed lack of a killer mentality. IMO all of Wiggins "flaws" are symptoms of his handle. If he fixed that up, he would become a killer over time, even if he doesn't currently possess the "mind set." He is just naturally a more reserved type of personality. But when you are physically superior and can do what you want, you start to develop the alpha over time. It's all about the handle.

[breakchains]

And on the subject, Embiid has probably my favorite mindset of the big 3. He plays with fire and a bit of a mean streak when he gets pissed. Love it out of a guy who is still new to the game and even new to the country. If only we had the #1

[El Duderino]

absolute best case - Dominique
.

Now you are making sense. I hadn't thought of Wiggy as Dominique Wilkins, but that's a heck of a good comparison on a number of levels.

I don't see Wilkins much at all in Wiggins. He was such a unique player and athlete, i don't think we'll ever see another player who NBA fans will look at and say wow, that guy really reminds me of Dominique.

[JayMKE]

I think Wiggins' floor is Harrison Barnes.

[MrPerfect1]

absolute best case - Dominique
.

Now you are making sense. I hadn't thought of Wiggy as Dominique Wilkins, but that's a heck of a good comparison on a number of levels.

I don't see Wilkins much at all in Wiggins. He was such a unique player and athlete, i don't think we'll ever see another player who NBA fans will look at and say wow, that guy really reminds me of Dominique.

Plus, wasn't Wilkins considered an awful defender?

As for Mcdermott, I like him a good bit. Floor spacing is of huge value in the NBA and he even has the Dirk Fadeaway move. He could be quite good. The other I like a lot even though is almost the complete opposite is Aaron Gordon. He could easily be the Noah of SF's

[Baddy Chuck]

I don't really see the Harrison Barnes comparisons for Wiggins, like at all. Barnes for athletic as he was was never a guy with an explosive first step and his offense was heavily reliant on his very good jumpshot, especially from midrange. I understand they have a few similarities, namely in their weaknesses (ball handling), but their strengths were nothing alike.

[Max Green]

“I watched the game yesterday, I like him a lot,” Anthony said of the Duke freshman at Knicks practice Friday. “I can just see the upside, the potential he has. His style of play kind of reminds me of myself, the things that he can do. His mid-range game, there’s not too many people at that level who have a mid-range basketball game. It’s hard to teach, it’s hard to learn, so if you have it that’s a special talent.”

Even Melo himself agree's that Parker compares favorably to him. I have his ceiling somewhere between a longer Pierce/Melo. He's a special talent and that's one of the reasons I have him as my clear choice for the number 2 pick.

[Ayt]

absolute best case - Dominique
.

Now you are making sense. I hadn't thought of Wiggy as Dominique Wilkins, but that's a heck of a good comparison on a number of levels.

Supreme brought that up during the season and I thought it was a good one as an absolute best case scenario, but Nique was the kind of guy that loved to just physically manhandle people and slam it in their face. He always played like a man amongst boys. Wiggins hasn't displayed that kind of mentality or the sheer combination of explosion and power that Nique had. Dude was a beast.

I believe this has been posted, but it is a video of all of Wiggins attempts at the rim over 6 games during the season. For all the talk about his incredible athleticism, his finishing in traffic is quite poor. He needs to get a lot stronger. He also can be pretty awkward when trying to adjust to defenders.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ISjeKIuumE[/youtube]

[Baddy Chuck]

You could certainly compile a 6 game sample of conference games where Parker looks extremely pedestrian at the rim.

I mean DOD says this

In sum he shot 41.4% from 2 in these games and averaged 14.5 pts, and he is averaging 42.4% from 2 and 16.4 ppg in conference play, so I think it’s a fair selection even if not the most flattering:

Here's Parkers stats from his first 6 conference games, not even a real cherry picked group.

13.6 PPG
40.4% from 2

Overall conference totals from 2
Wiggins: 49%
Parker: 49.7%

Overall conference play
Wiggins: 17.6 PPG - 57.1% TS%
Parker: 17.6 PPG 54.2% TS%

[El Duderino]

Again, I don't care too much at all about Wiggins' supposed lack of a killer mentality. IMO all of Wiggins "flaws" are symptoms of his handle. If he fixed that up, he would become a killer over time, even if he doesn't currently possess the "mind set." He is just naturally a more reserved type of personality. But when you are physically superior and can do what you want, you start to develop the alpha over time. It's all about the handle.

One often stated narrative i disagree with that's been stated on this board and by draft pundits is that supposedly Parker is the safest pick among the main three prospects. I think Wiggins is.

1-- Embiid comes with the injury fears

2-- Parker in a worst case scenario ends up not only being a tweener type of defensive liability, he potentially could become a high usage but inefficient scorer who doesn't pass the ball enough. Thus his offensive contributions wouldn't be high enough to offset his defensive shortcomings.

3-- Wiggins worst case scenario is that his handles and jumper never improve enough to where in the half court offense he's only a mediocre contributor. He at least though would always be able to contribute on the defensive end as a big and very athletic guy who locks down various type of players, along with being a consistent beast in transition offense.

If healthy over their careers, i think all three will end up being quality to very good NBA players, but i just don't get why so many want to label Parker as a "safer" pick than Wiggins given his defense, athleticism, and skills in transition will translate very well to the NBA even if he never becomes a force offensively.

[Zeezprah]

Someone before brought up the question as if anyone in this draft has the Russell Westbrook killer mentality.

That's a VERY interesting point to bring up. IIRC, Westbrook was always regarded as soft spoken and extremely humble at UCLA. I never remember him being anything like the Russell Westbrook we see now.

Those things grow on people. Once the player sees he can hang with the big boys in the NBA, then the confidence/cockiness will come (talking about Wiggins).

agreed. players change all the time as they mature/get older, as they get better, and when they get around the nba culture.

countless examples of players who have changed over time.