First Round Playoff Thread

[Newz]

We all know it's a team game but when you're a great player, especially one who calls himself "The King," expectations are different. Magic talked about that last night on ESPN. He was asked whether the criticism he got after the 84 Finals was fair and he said it was because that's the deal when you're a great player. For those who don't remember, Magic got KILLED after that Finals series. Care to know what his numbers were in the playoffs that year?

18.2 points per game
13.5 assists per game
6.6 rebounds per game

He did all that but got blasted for not doing more. It was a different era obviously without the Internet and blogs and message boards. Extrapolate that to today and my guess is it would be very similar to what LeBron often hears and has heard in this series. And again, last night Magic said the criticism was fair and he used it to improve in the offseason and get better. He came back the next season and led the Lakers to another title.

Life is different at the top. It just is. Magic understood that.

Yeah? Those people were just as stupid as the people ripping on LeBron now.

Those can be the expectations everyone has, it doesn't mean they are logical though.

[Newz]

Also, Magic can say that all he wants. JVG during the broadcast (a great coach in his own right) was saying that people are out of control with what they say about LeBron. JVG pointed out:

* LeBron plays how everyone says they want stars to play. He's unselfish, he's entertaining, etc.
* LeBron did two stupid things. He had the show and they had that WWE style introduction. It's not like he killed somebody, it's not like he did anything that was wrong. He just let his ego get out of control. For some reason people just can't let that go, even though the team as a whole has said they handled that situation poorly and wish they would have done it different.

So JVG completely disagrees and thinks the hate for LeBron is WAY over the top. He was in disbelief that a lot of people cannot just sit back and enjoy watching one of the best to ever play the game.

[Nebula1]

This is my beef with fantasy and folks who get caught up in numbers/stats. In the Playoffs only Ws matter and a great player leads his team to Ws. So when Lebron gets fancy numbers and then fades down the stretch, that matters regardless of his statistical production. He either leads his team to Ws or not. To be truly great, you get 16 Ws. Yes, teammates and coaching are critical factors, but it always comes down to a great player leading his team to Ws.

Congrats to Lebron for elevating his game and getting the W in Boston. Hopefully Miami wins Game 7 and he can face off against Durant and they can settle it.

[trwi7]

Nebs is the kind of guy who would rather have a pitcher that's 15-10 with a 5.5 ERA than pitcher that's 12-14 with a 2.5 ERA.

[Newz]

This is my beef with fantasy and folks who get caught up in numbers/stats. In the Playoffs only Ws matter and a great player leads his team to Ws. So when Lebron gets fancy numbers and then fades down the stretch, that matters regardless of his statistical production. He either leads his team to Ws or not. To be truly great, you get 16 Ws. Yes, teammates and coaching are critical factors, but it always comes down to a great player leading his team to Ws.

Congrats to Lebron for elevating his game and getting the W in Boston. Hopefully Miami wins Game 7 and he can face off against Durant and they can settle it.

This is the stupidest way of thinking about anything ever.

If OKC and Miami play one another, OKC is going to win. It isn't going to be because Durant is a better player than LeBron James though.

This is my beef with people who think five on five basketball in the NBA is a one on one game.

[Newz]

Nebs is the kind of guy who would rather have a pitcher that's 15-10 with a 5.5 ERA than pitcher that's 12-14 with a 2.5 ERA.

Run support doesn't matter. Just get wins.

[europa]

I love Van Gundy but he doesn't know what it's like to be an all-time great player. Magic does. His words carry more weight on the subject with me than Van Gundy's.

I also don't think it's "hating" to present legitimate criticisms of LeBron's game. I admit I think he's a gigantic douche but I marvel at his talent and always have. What I find lacking is his willingness to truly utilize that talent at times when his team needs it the most. If that means I'm a hater, so be it.

[Kerb Hohl]

CC Sabathia is just gritter getting out of jams in the 6th inning than Felix Hernandez is. It's all pitching strategy. Forget the teams that they are/were on.

Also: Cliff Lee sucks.

[Newz]

I love Van Gundy but he doesn't know what it's like to be an all-time great player. Magic does. His words carry more weight on the subject with me than Van Gundy's.

I also don't think it's "hating" to present legitimate criticisms of LeBron's game. I admit I think he's a gigantic douche but I marvel at his talent and always have. What I find lacking is his willingness to truly utilize that talent at times when his team needs it the most. If that means I'm a hater, so be it.

Oh, that argument... that only people who have experienced it can say it and know what they are talking about.

I still remember the comments from Jordan, Bird and Magic about how they would never leave their teams like LeBron did. Nevermind that they were in three of the biggest markets in the league and surrounded by Hall of Fame players.... yeah, they had it really tough having to stay in those spots.

[europa]

So you're saying Jeff Van Gundy knows more about what it's like to be an NBA superstar and everything that goes with it than Magic Johnson does?

I think Van Gundy would be the first to say he'd defer to Magic on the subject.

[Kerb Hohl]

I was watching that same thing. What Magic said is that many of the arguments are essentially illogical but you have to deal with them. So I agree. The general public is stupid and doesn't get it and is going to blame you even though you shouldn't be and you just have to deal with it.

That's what I took from it.

[Newz]

So you're saying Jeff Van Gundy knows more about what it's like to be an NBA superstar and everything that goes with it than Magic Johnson does?

I think Van Gundy would be the first to say he'd defer to Magic on the subject.

I think that a lot of star players who go to the booth/studio end up having less informed opinions on basketball than most of the posters on this message board.

[Newz]

I was watching that same thing. What Magic said is that many of the arguments are essentially illogical but you have to deal with them. So I agree. The general public is stupid and doesn't get it and is going to blame you even though you shouldn't be and you just have to deal with it.

That's what I took from it.

Exactly.

[europa]

So you're saying Jeff Van Gundy knows more about what it's like to be an NBA superstar and everything that goes with it than Magic Johnson does?

I think Van Gundy would be the first to say he'd defer to Magic on the subject.

I think that a lot of star players who go to the booth/studio end up having less informed opinions on basketball than most of the posters on this message board.

I agree but none of us have the slightest idea what it's like to be an NBA superstar and all that goes with it. Magic Johnson does. To assume Jeff Van Gundy or any of us here have a more meaningful opinion or have more insight on that subject is something I find rather odd.

[Newz]

Europa, basically what all of these guys are saying is:

"We can't believe casual basketball thinks (insert all these crazy things about certain star players including LeBron James). It doesn't make a lot of sense, but that's how it is."

But you aren't a casual basketball fan, you know a lot about the game... yet you fall into that casual basketball fan category when it comes to one player.

[Kerb Hohl]

So you're saying Jeff Van Gundy knows more about what it's like to be an NBA superstar and everything that goes with it than Magic Johnson does?

I think Van Gundy would be the first to say he'd defer to Magic on the subject.

We're just saying that the general public is stupid and Magic Johnson was commenting on what he dealt with from the general public.

This is the same group of people who thought Aaron Rodgers couldn't win the big game because of defensive mishaps that were out of his power and that Matt Ryan was incredibly clutch because he led like 3-4 30 yard field goal drives in a season and his play looks gritty (because he can't throw the ball as far/accurate as other good QBs). All of that was mid-2010.

It's also the same general public (SPORTSWRITERS) that vote Derek Jeter for a gold glove every year because he has name recognition and doesn't make errors (completely useless stat) even though he was the worst defensive player at his position over the past few seasons. It's the same one that is "breaking the barriers" and doing something radical like starting to ignore W/L for a pitcher when voting on the Cy Young.

The general public is stupid. Europa, you're citing the same people that think Monta Ellis and to an extent Drew Gooden are valuable players for the Bucks.

We're better than that.

[europa]

I was watching that same thing. What Magic said is that many of the arguments are essentially illogical but you have to deal with them. So I agree. The general public is stupid and doesn't get it and is going to blame you even though you shouldn't be and you just have to deal with it.

That's what I took from it.

Exactly.

He was asked point blank by Wilbon if the criticism he got that year was fair and he said it was. He said when the Lakers lost it was all about what him and Kareem didn't do. When they won, it was all about what he and Kareem did and that's why they got all the accolades and endorsements and everything else that went along with it. He said the expectations are different when you're a great player. That's the way it is and you need to understand that. Magic clearly did.

[jeremyd236]

But Lebron has Wade and Bosh. No, they're not as good as the guys you mentioned, but it's another top 5 and top 25 player.

I don't think Lebron fans should be worried. He's got plenty of time. At his age, Jordan didn't even have his first ring yet. Not that we're comparing the two....

Right, but like I said... there are still issues separate team from individual.

What's LeBron doing? What he always does. Putting up unreal stats and dominating a majority of the game.
What's Wade doing? Playing like he's Monta Ellis. (At times this series that's actually an insult to Monta Ellis)
What's Bosh doing? He's been hurt.
What's their cast doing? Not even shooting 30% from 3.

The overall conclusion seems to be that it should fall on LeBron. Why doesn't most of the blame fall on Wade? He's supposed to be a Hall of Famer, he's supposed to be a 'top 5 player' and he's supposed to be this great guy in the playoffs. He hasn't done ****.

The TEAM (the Miami Heat) aren't on the verge of being eliminate from the playoffs because of LeBron James. He's the last reason they are close to elimination. Last year against Dallas? Yeah, that's on him. This year? He's been spectacular.

I think people are overreacting to Lebron's "bad supporting cast". RIGHT NOW, Wade is playing horribly and Bosh is hurt. Right now.

Where was this criticism when Wade was going ape **** last series? IF the Heat go to the finals, I fully expect Wade to return to playing like a top 5 player and Bosh to put up 18/10 and get taken for granted as usual.

[Kerb Hohl]

I was watching that same thing. What Magic said is that many of the arguments are essentially illogical but you have to deal with them. So I agree. The general public is stupid and doesn't get it and is going to blame you even though you shouldn't be and you just have to deal with it.

That's what I took from it.

Exactly.

He was asked point blank by Wilbon if the criticism he got that year was fair and he said it was. He said when the Lakers lost it was all about what him and Kareem didn't do. When they won, it was all about what he and Kareem did and that's why they got all the accolades and endorsements and everything else that went along with it. He said the expectations are different when you're a great player. That's the way it is and you need to understand that. Magic clearly did.

It's "fair" because he makes all the money and has all the fame.

In comparison, it's stupid though if you're removing factor from it and just look at the game/numbers.

[Newz]

So you don't think LeBron knows that if the Heat don't get the job done... that it's going to fall pretty much 100% on his shoulders? I think he's well aware of that.

I think you're well aware of that too, considering you pretty much excuse the other "top 5 player" on his team of playing nothing like a top 5 player at all.