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Official #2 Pick Thread - Ford #7: Parker

Moderators: paulpressey25, MickeyDavis

Assuming Embiid goes #1, who is your guy at #2?

Wiggins
188
53%
Parker
126
35%
Exum
33
9%
Vonleh
1
0%
Randle
8
2%
 
Total votes: 356

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Re: Official #2 Pick Thread pt. II - New Poll 

Post#361 » by JayMKE » Sat May 31, 2014 12:53 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:I don't really see the Harrison Barnes comparisons for Wiggins, like at all. Barnes for athletic as he was was never a guy with an explosive first step and his offense was heavily reliant on his very good jumpshot, especially from midrange. I understand they have a few similarities, namely in their weaknesses (ball handling), but their strengths were nothing alike.


I see that as his absolute worst case scenario, I expect and hope Wiggins will be a lot better. The weaknesses being ball handling and lack of killer instinct(or whatever term you to use for it), both were top high school players, similar size and athleticism(Wiggins definitely looks more explosive). Seems closer than Josh Childress which somebody as his floor a few posts before.
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Re: Official #2 Pick Thread pt. II - New Poll 

Post#362 » by JayMKE » Sat May 31, 2014 12:58 am

El Duderino wrote:
breakchains wrote:Again, I don't care too much at all about Wiggins' supposed lack of a killer mentality. IMO all of Wiggins "flaws" are symptoms of his handle. If he fixed that up, he would become a killer over time, even if he doesn't currently possess the "mind set." He is just naturally a more reserved type of personality. But when you are physically superior and can do what you want, you start to develop the alpha over time. It's all about the handle.


One often stated narrative i disagree with that's been stated on this board and by draft pundits is that supposedly Parker is the safest pick among the main three prospects. I think Wiggins is.

1-- Embiid comes with the injury fears

2-- Parker in a worst case scenario ends up not only being a tweener type of defensive liability, he potentially could become a high usage but inefficient scorer who doesn't pass the ball enough. Thus his offensive contributions wouldn't be high enough to offset his defensive shortcomings.

3-- Wiggins worst case scenario is that his handles and jumper never improve enough to where in the half court offense he's only a mediocre contributor. He at least though would always be able to contribute on the defensive end as a big and very athletic guy who locks down various type of players, along with being a consistent beast in transition offense.

If healthy over their careers, i think all three will end up being quality to very good NBA players, but i just don't get why so many want to label Parker as a "safer" pick than Wiggins given his defense, athleticism, and skills in transition will translate very well to the NBA even if he never becomes a force offensively.


I don't see Parker being a Michael Beasley or Al Harrington type no-d chucker, by all accounts Parker is a pretty hard worker and smart kid. If he's not the all world type scorer he has the potential to be, I don't see him being totally inefficient. If he were that type of he'd probably would of been playing at Kentucky or somewhere else other than Duke for Coach K.
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Re: Official #2 Pick Thread pt. II - New Poll 

Post#363 » by Baddy Chuck » Sat May 31, 2014 1:04 am

JayMKE wrote:
Baddy Chuck wrote:I don't really see the Harrison Barnes comparisons for Wiggins, like at all. Barnes for athletic as he was was never a guy with an explosive first step and his offense was heavily reliant on his very good jumpshot, especially from midrange. I understand they have a few similarities, namely in their weaknesses (ball handling), but their strengths were nothing alike.


I see that as his absolute worst case scenario, I expect and hope Wiggins will be a lot better. The weaknesses being ball handling and lack of killer instinct(or whatever term you to use for it), both were top high school players, similar size and athleticism(Wiggins definitely looks more explosive). Seems closer than Josh Childress which somebody as his floor a few posts before.

I guess this could be something now, but it really wasn't the case in college. Hell, here's a quote from draftexpress

By all accounts, Barnes is a high character individual with a strong work ethic who plays the game with a very competitive mentality


I've said it before, a lot of the "mindset" is how your skills translate. I think a lot of the best players in the league have a killer mindset because they are the best players in the league. If Wiggins' skills translate, I don't think his mindset will be much of a problem. How many guys with the skills/stats in the league are mental midgets? Dwight Howard might be the only one I can think of, and it really wasn't a problem at all in Orlando when he was dominating. I don't think there are many players at all that succeed or fail because of their mindset, especially if you remove anything outside of the court.
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Re: Official #2 Pick Thread pt. II - New Poll 

Post#364 » by bebopdeluxe » Sat May 31, 2014 1:19 am

Bernman wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:If Philly must have Wiggins and Jabari is our guy, we need to exploit this.


In a perfect world, that's true. But unfortunately in this one Lasry keeps going around and telling everybody who will listen that Parker will be the pick (unless maybe Embiid is there). While there is a chance (although I doubt it because he's saying it in various private settings to fans) that these are smokescreens, it doesn't exactly set up a trade with Philly for Wiggins. It sets up trades for the other 2 guys, especially Parker. The rumor has long from Philly been that they want Wiggins instead, although that could be a smokescreen too I suppose. One would think they wouldn't Embiid or Exum because they are redundant w/ Noel and MCW. I think there is actually a better chance of a panic trade up by Philly with us if surprisingly Parker goes #1, leaving their only hope to be we don't take Wiggins. And I don't know if they can risk that.


Hinkie isn't trading up.

If Embiid, miraculously, is there, we take him LIKE THAT (along with a chuckle of "WTF are the Cavs AND Bucks thinking?" If Embiid and Wiggins are gone, we take Exum and have either an all-time defensive backcourt or we move MCW to the Kings or Lakers for Vonleh or Gordon...using 10 for whoever is still on the board. Personally, if Wiggins and Exum are both there, I do not think it is a 100% slam-dunk that the Sixers take Wiggins over Exum.

Hinkie is all about ACQUIRING assets...not trading them. The Sixers are SO far away from being a good team, they simply need to upgrade the roster at every turn, and whoever they add at 3 will do that...the benefit of Exum, of course is you can make a Jrue-like deal with the Kings or Lakers to add one of the stud forwards that will still be on the board - guys who will be gone when we pick at 10.

If you think Wiggins is the best pick for you at 2 (personally, I would pick Exum and have the PG position solved - especially since you already have Giannis), then by all means take him. Just don't hold your breath that Hinkie is going tomgive you a valuable asset to move up one slot. It won't happen.
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Re: Official #2 Pick Thread pt. II - New Poll 

Post#365 » by El Duderino » Sat May 31, 2014 1:28 am

JayMKE wrote:
El Duderino wrote:
One often stated narrative i disagree with that's been stated on this board and by draft pundits is that supposedly Parker is the safest pick among the main three prospects. I think Wiggins is.

1-- Embiid comes with the injury fears

2-- Parker in a worst case scenario ends up not only being a tweener type of defensive liability, he potentially could become a high usage but inefficient scorer who doesn't pass the ball enough. Thus his offensive contributions wouldn't be high enough to offset his defensive shortcomings.

3-- Wiggins worst case scenario is that his handles and jumper never improve enough to where in the half court offense he's only a mediocre contributor. He at least though would always be able to contribute on the defensive end as a big and very athletic guy who locks down various type of players, along with being a consistent beast in transition offense.

If healthy over their careers, i think all three will end up being quality to very good NBA players, but i just don't get why so many want to label Parker as a "safer" pick than Wiggins given his defense, athleticism, and skills in transition will translate very well to the NBA even if he never becomes a force offensively.


I don't see Parker being a Michael Beasley or Al Harrington type no-d chucker, by all accounts Parker is a pretty hard worker and smart kid. If he's not the all world type scorer he has the potential to be, I don't see him being totally inefficient. If he were that type of he'd probably would of been playing at Kentucky or somewhere else other than Duke for Coach K.


FWIW, i'm not saying that Parker will for sure end up being some mindless chucker.

All i was saying is that in a worst case scenario for each player, Wiggins at least will have his defense, fabulous athleticism, and transition abilities to fall back on even if he never develops a lot in his half court offense.

For Parker though in a worst case scenario, if he remains a defensive liability in the NBA, he'd need to be really good offensively to offset his problems on defense. As Bucks fans we've seen what happens when skilled offensive players are bad defensively, it tends to wash each other out. Well, it's not as if Parker had some sort of transcendent offensive season last year like some great freshman have had. In fact, his numbers in conference play were no better than Wiggins. So it's far from a lock that he'll be both a good scorer and efficient scorer in the NBA. That his passing will improve a lot from what little he did with Duke.

That's why for me in a worst case scenario at least, i see Wiggins as a safer pick because he has some near guaranteed traits to fall back on even if his half court offense never fully develops. For Parker though, if he continued to be a defensive liability, i didn't see him come close to dominating enough offensively at Duke to say it's a near lock he'd score efficiently enough to offset bad defense.
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Re: Official #2 Pick Thread pt. II - New Poll 

Post#366 » by El Duderino » Sat May 31, 2014 1:59 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:
I've said it before, a lot of the "mindset" is how your skills translate. I think a lot of the best players in the league have a killer mindset because they are the best players in the league. If Wiggins' skills translate, I don't think his mindset will be much of a problem. How many guys with the skills/stats in the league are mental midgets? Dwight Howard might be the only one I can think of, and it really wasn't a problem at all in Orlando when he was dominating. I don't think there are many players at all that succeed or fail because of their mindset, especially if you remove anything outside of the court.


Plus, there can be two sides to that coin of players having a socalled alpha dog mentality.

There is the positive side when a player is a very gifted and efficient scorer. You'll generally want those type of guys to shoot a lot and try taking games over late when a score is close.

The flip side to that is to many guys have this alpha dog mentality, even though their production/stats clearly state they shouldn't have that mentality. Brandon Jennings being a prime example. If any player spends time in the NBA and gets to a point where they just aren't an efficient to really efficient scorer, but yet refuse to accept this, they often can end up being a liability. That's where it would be much better having a guy who after time accepts where his shortcomings are and thus is willing to play within himself because that's the best way to help win games.

Time will tell on how both of Parker/Wiggins produce and the mentality each ends up playing with as they gain experience, but as of right now at least, this wouldn't be a big factor in why i chose either guy.
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Re: Official #2 Pick Thread pt. II - New Poll 

Post#367 » by ampd » Sat May 31, 2014 2:08 am

Comparing Wiggins to childress is like comparing Parker to drew gooden
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Re: Official #2 Pick Thread pt. II - New Poll 

Post#368 » by KingWing » Sat May 31, 2014 2:16 am

Joe Johnson was criticized for being too passive in college and for not taking over games. Not so much now. He did have a better handle coming out of college though.

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Re: Official #2 Pick Thread pt. II - New Poll 

Post#369 » by Wonka » Sat May 31, 2014 2:20 am

ampd wrote:Comparing Wiggins to childress is like comparing Parker to drew gooden


A much better comparison for Parker would be...Michael Jeffrey Jordan!!!

(Actually had a friend say Parker had some MJ in him, hence my post)
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Re: Official #2 Pick Thread pt. II - New Poll 

Post#370 » by breakchains » Sat May 31, 2014 3:27 am

El Duderino wrote:
breakchains wrote:Again, I don't care too much at all about Wiggins' supposed lack of a killer mentality. IMO all of Wiggins "flaws" are symptoms of his handle. If he fixed that up, he would become a killer over time, even if he doesn't currently possess the "mind set." He is just naturally a more reserved type of personality. But when you are physically superior and can do what you want, you start to develop the alpha over time. It's all about the handle.


One often stated narrative i disagree with that's been stated on this board and by draft pundits is that supposedly Parker is the safest pick among the main three prospects. I think Wiggins is.

1-- Embiid comes with the injury fears

2-- Parker in a worst case scenario ends up not only being a tweener type of defensive liability, he potentially could become a high usage but inefficient scorer who doesn't pass the ball enough. Thus his offensive contributions wouldn't be high enough to offset his defensive shortcomings.

3-- Wiggins worst case scenario is that his handles and jumper never improve enough to where in the half court offense he's only a mediocre contributor. He at least though would always be able to contribute on the defensive end as a big and very athletic guy who locks down various type of players, along with being a consistent beast in transition offense.

If healthy over their careers, i think all three will end up being quality to very good NBA players, but i just don't get why so many want to label Parker as a "safer" pick than Wiggins given his defense, athleticism, and skills in transition will translate very well to the NBA even if he never becomes a force offensively.

I like your post because I appreciate differences of opinion but I very much disagree with it.
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Re: Official #2 Pick Thread pt. II - New Poll 

Post#371 » by paulpressey25 » Sat May 31, 2014 4:28 am

Watching the Jabari workout. Is there some Shawn Kemp in there? I wonder if that ends up being his analog if he plays the 4.
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Re: Official #2 Pick Thread pt. II - New Poll 

Post#372 » by paulpressey25 » Sat May 31, 2014 4:48 am

Good debate at this link on Cavs board re Jabari v. Wiggins between cosmokramer and brooksfosho.

http://realcavsfans.com/showthread.php? ... rker/page7

Did Jabari avg 5.5apg in HS and Wiggins only 2?
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Re: Official #2 Pick Thread pt. II - New Poll 

Post#373 » by breakchains » Sat May 31, 2014 4:49 am

paulpressey25 wrote:Watching the Jabari workout. Is there some Shawn Kemp in there? I wonder if that ends up being his analog if he plays the 4.

No man, he is incredibly skilled, especially when you consider his age. Stay in the Melo/Pierce realm. Those are two pretty good comps. A bigger Pierce with a real post game. Although one I've been seeing is kind of a not-quite-as-athletic Lebron when Lebron is in full attack scorer mode (ie. take away part of what makes Lebron so special: his court vision and passsing).
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Re: Official #2 Pick Thread pt. II - New Poll 

Post#374 » by breakchains » Sat May 31, 2014 4:57 am

I really hope he hits the weights HARD. He could be a truly special scorer IMO.
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Re: Official #2 Pick Thread pt. II - New Poll 

Post#375 » by crkone » Sat May 31, 2014 5:11 am

Anyone know of a player who fixed his handle in the NBA enough to take people off the dribble? I can't think of one offhand. On the other hand, we had a guy on our team who transformed his body in one off-season and became an average defender.

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Re: Official #2 Pick Thread pt. II - New Poll 

Post#376 » by Baddy Chuck » Sat May 31, 2014 5:20 am

crkone wrote:Anyone know of a player who fixed his handle in the NBA enough to take people off the dribble? I can't think of one offhand. On the other hand, we had a guy on our team who transformed his body in one off-season and became an average defender.

Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, DeMar DeRozan, Aaron Afflalo, Klay Thompson, Wes Matthews, Rudy Gay, Gerald Green.
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Re: Official #2 Pick Thread pt. II - New Poll 

Post#377 » by Whiteman » Sat May 31, 2014 7:55 am

paulpressey25 wrote:Good debate at this link on Cavs board re Jabari v. Wiggins between cosmokramer and brooksfosho.

http://realcavsfans.com/showthread.php? ... rker/page7

Good stuff.

If I had to choose between Parker and Wiggins, I'd flip a coin. My mind refuses to be made up.
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Re: Official #2 Pick Thread pt. II - New Poll 

Post#378 » by sidney lanier » Sat May 31, 2014 12:25 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:Watching the Jabari workout. Is there some Shawn Kemp in there? I wonder if that ends up being his analog if he plays the 4.


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Re: Official #2 Pick Thread pt. II - New Poll 

Post#379 » by Frank Nova » Sat May 31, 2014 3:26 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:Watching the Jabari workout. Is there some Shawn Kemp in there? I wonder if that ends up being his analog if he plays the 4.


Do you also see Blake Griffin when you watched Parker? Don't see how you could see Kemp and not Blake. And I'd really like to know what u saw in detail to make u come to that conclusion. I find that pretty far out there. Don't see how Parker could get bigger and become more athletic, something like that would put him closer to a Lebron James prototype even. Shawn Kemp is just mind exploding IMO.
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Re: Official #2 Pick Thread pt. II - New Poll 

Post#380 » by paulpressey25 » Sat May 31, 2014 4:25 pm

weezybaby856 wrote:And I'd really like to know what u saw in detail to make u come to that conclusion. .


I'm not coming to conclusions. But if Jabari ends up being a 4, he's got a fair amount of craftiness and power potential in him under the hoop.
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