First Round Playoff Thread

nmeurett · Post #3621 » by **nmeurett** » Fri Jun 8, 2012 6:44 pm

Yes Lebron had influence on the moves in Cleveland but im sure Jamison and Mo Williams were not his first choice. Those were the best players available for trade that Cleveland had the assets to get at that time.

Kerb Hohl · Post #3622 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Fri Jun 8, 2012 6:50 pm

nmeurett wrote:Yes Lebron had influence on the moves in Cleveland but im sure Jamison and Mo Williams were not his first choice. Those were the best players available for trade that Cleveland had the assets to get at that time.

Right. That said, that stuff happened. They should have been more patient and they weren't.

As it stood, he was effed if he wanted to win a title unless he did it completely on his own for the forthcoming 2-4 years. They were pretty capped out with trash.

coolhandluke121 · Post #3623 » by **coolhandluke121** » Fri Jun 8, 2012 6:52 pm

nmeurett wrote:Yes Lebron had influence on the moves in Cleveland but im sure Jamison and Mo Williams were not his first choice. Those were the best players available for trade that Cleveland had the assets to get at that time.

Signing Larry Hughes right away, instead of getting one or two more high draft picks and waiting for someone more worthy of the money to come along, was their original sin. Everything else snowballed from there.

europa · Post #3624 » by **europa** » Fri Jun 8, 2012 6:54 pm

I can't believe how many Bucks fans preferred Hughes to Redd at the time. I get not wanting to sign Redd but wanting to sign Larry Hughes instead? Never made a lick of sense to me.

nmeurett · Post #3625 » by **nmeurett** » Fri Jun 8, 2012 6:55 pm

People forget that if the Lakers dont get Gasol then Kobe is likley playing for a different team. It was what like 2-3 years in a row that he was wanting a trade.

Newz · Post #3626 » by **Newz** » Fri Jun 8, 2012 6:56 pm

In addition, what player actually playing is in any sort of position to make smart moves with trades/signings? These guys realize they have a limited time to play. None of them want to wait, especially great players. They feel like if they want to win, they have to win right away because who knows what could happen... injury, decline in play, etc.

So listening to a player and allowing him to make moves is one of the more foolish moves any front office can make. It's why I think the Lakers are awesome for telling Kobe to shut the **** up and they let the good trades/players come to them as opposed to just trying to appease Kobe immediately.

That's not a rip on Kobe, as I think all players feel the way he felt. It's more of a compliment to the Lakers front office.

Newz · Post #3627 » by **Newz** » Fri Jun 8, 2012 6:57 pm

europa wrote:I can't believe how many Bucks fans preferred Hughes to Redd at the time. I get not wanting to sign Redd but wanting to sign Larry Hughes instead? Never made a lick of sense to me.

The Cavs needed Ray Allen or no one that offseason.

Redd would have been better than Hughes for them, but that still wouldn't have got it done.

europa · Post #3628 » by **europa** » Fri Jun 8, 2012 6:58 pm

Newz wrote:
europa wrote:I can't believe how many Bucks fans preferred Hughes to Redd at the time. I get not wanting to sign Redd but wanting to sign Larry Hughes instead? Never made a lick of sense to me.

The Cavs needed Ray Allen or no one that offseason.

Redd would have been better than Hughes for them, but that still wouldn't have got it done.

Kobe and prime Redd would've been a lethal combination. Not sure it's title worthy but Redd would've been a great pickup for them at that time.

nmeurett · Post #3629 » by **nmeurett** » Fri Jun 8, 2012 6:58 pm

Lol The Lakers told Kobe to shut up but then David Stern decided to butt rape Memphis and give the Lakers Gasol to keep him in LA.

europa · Post #3630 » by **europa** » Fri Jun 8, 2012 7:16 pm

Cleveland columnist responds to Jeff Van Gundy wondering why people dislike LeBron:

http://www.foxsportsohio.com/06/08/12/A ... eedID=3724

coolhandluke121 · Post #3631 » by **coolhandluke121** » Fri Jun 8, 2012 7:18 pm

nmeurett wrote:Lol The Lakers told Kobe to shut up but then David Stern decided to butt **** Memphis and give the Lakers Gasol to keep him in LA.

Memphis should have gotten more for Gasol, but I wouldn't say they got raped. I really liked what they did. They were stuck in mediocrity. It was imperative that they trade Gasol and tank for a few years. Then with all the cap space they freed up, they got Randolph for nothing.

I think more teams should play it the way they did when they have a player of Gasol's caliber with little else. If the Bucks had traded Bogut the same way the Grizzlies traded Gasol - for a bunch of unknown young commodities and cap space, much less than what he was worth at the time - then they would probably be a hell of a lot better off than they are now. And if you just get 80% of what he's worth, like a #4 pick or something, then you're really setting yourself up to take a few steps forward down the road.

Newz · Post #3632 » by **Newz** » Fri Jun 8, 2012 7:19 pm

europa wrote:Cleveland columnist responds to Jeff Van Gundy wondering why people dislike LeBron:

http://www.foxsportsohio.com/06/08/12/A ... eedID=3724

People from Cleveland don't like LeBron? Stun.

That's a little different than random guy from Wisconsin.

nmeurett · Post #3633 » by **nmeurett** » Fri Jun 8, 2012 7:36 pm

Newz wrote:
europa wrote:Cleveland columnist responds to Jeff Van Gundy wondering why people dislike LeBron:

http://www.foxsportsohio.com/06/08/12/A ... eedID=3724

People from Cleveland don't like LeBron? Stun.

That's a little different than random guy from Wisconsin.

I agree with the above poster. I can see why the fans in Cleavland dont like him but for what seems like 85% of NBA fans to hate the man makes no sense.

InsideOut · Post #3634 » by **InsideOut** » Fri Jun 8, 2012 7:38 pm

Nebula1 wrote:
InsideOut wrote:And yes I am serious with my question. You can either sign the 5.5 ERA guy that came from a team that won the world series or the 2.5 ERA guy that came from a team that didn't win the world series. What is more important to you when it comes to you picking which player you want to sign. The fact that one guy had the better ERA or the fact that the other guy's team won the world series. It's a simple question that you keep ducking and we all know why.

I'm not ducking anything. A player's production is important, but I'm going to interview the player and examine character. If a player has rings, that's a bonus as well. Signing a player has a broad aspect of criteria. If you have two players with similar production, then what??? Oh no, what to do...

Why we're talking about who we would sign, I don't know. This is about Lebron winning a championship or not.

I would take Kevin Durant over Lebron James because I feel he has a better chance of getting me a title.

If you're not ducking it then why are you still not answering the question? For the X number of time...You are signing a player but only have two things to go on (ERA and a world series win). You can either sign the 5.5 ERA guy that came from a team that won the world series or the 2.5 ERA guy that came from a team that didn't win the world series. I don't care about interviews as that isn't part of the question. This is so simple and all I'm trying to do is figure out what you put more stock in...the production that comes with ERA or the fact that the other guy was on a world series winning team. Just pick the one you feel is more important when it comes signing a guy.

nmeurett · Post #3635 » by **nmeurett** » Fri Jun 8, 2012 7:38 pm

Also I dont know why everyone trys comparing him to Jordan? His game is not really like Jordan at all. He is unselfish and basically a PG in a PF body. If anything people should compare him to Magic Johnson or Oscar Robertson as his game is very similar to theirs.

Newz · Post #3636 » by **Newz** » Fri Jun 8, 2012 7:39 pm

Also, bringing up players with similar production when talking about LeBron isn't really relevant. No one in the NBA produces at his level right now.

Newz · Post #3637 » by **Newz** » Fri Jun 8, 2012 7:40 pm

nmeurett wrote:Also I dont know why everyone trys comparing him to Jordan? His game is not really like Jordan at all. He is unselfish and basically a PG in a PF body. If anything people should compare him to Magic Johnson or Oscar Robertson as his game is very similar to theirs.

Definitely always agreed with this as well.

FrieAaron · Post #3638 » by **FrieAaron** » Fri Jun 8, 2012 7:40 pm

Newz wrote:
europa wrote:Cleveland columnist responds to Jeff Van Gundy wondering why people dislike LeBron:

http://www.foxsportsohio.com/06/08/12/A ... eedID=3724

People from Cleveland don't like LeBron? Stun.

That's a little different than random guy from Wisconsin.

Those reasons listed in the article sure hit on most of the points on my own list. Of course I wouldn't say I dislike him...I don't know the guy. I just don't want to see him win a ring the way he did things.

Nebula1 · Post #3639 » by **Nebula1** » Fri Jun 8, 2012 8:39 pm

InsideOut wrote:If you're not ducking it then why are you still not answering the question? For the X number of time...You are signing a player but only have two things to go on (ERA and a world series win). You can either sign the 5.5 ERA guy that came from a team that won the world series or the 2.5 ERA guy that came from a team that didn't win the world series. I don't care about interviews as that isn't part of the question. This is so simple and all I'm trying to do is figure out what you put more stock in...the production that comes with ERA or the fact that the other guy was on a world series winning team. Just pick the one you feel is more important when it comes signing a guy.

I'm not going to limit factors to those two. That's ridiculous. Depends who the players are. Why would I put 100% into a single variable?

You mentioned stocks earlier.. I'm not going to recommend a stock based on a single piece of data either. So Fund A made 10% last year and Fund B made 5%... am I going to automatically recommend Fund A based on previous performace of a single year? Of course not. Am I going to examine factors beyond statistical performance such as manager, holdings, fees, etc? Of course I am.

In the end, I want the guy who gives me the best shot at getting a title and that may or may not be the guy with better production or the guy with a ring or perhaps both.

Nebula1 · Post #3640 » by **Nebula1** » Fri Jun 8, 2012 8:44 pm

Newz wrote:Also, bringing up players with similar production when talking about LeBron isn't really relevant. No one in the NBA produces at his level right now.

Only Ws matter in the postseason and it's the responsibility of the best player to get his team those Ws. Great production and no rings = Karl Malone. Lebron is a rich man's Dominique Wilkins.