#12, Brockman, Leuer, SL for #14, Dalembert

Baddy Chuck · Post #381 » by **Baddy Chuck** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:10 pm

This sucks. I hate this team.

Sherman Douglas · Post #382 » by **Sherman Douglas** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:10 pm

jr lucosa wrote:
Sherman Douglas wrote:
JayMKE wrote:I don't see how this improves our chances at all next season. We're still a 9th/8th seed team

nothing changes at all

Without Ersan we're a 12th/13th seed team.

You're overvaluing a really good role player.

You're overrating the Bucks.

31-35 last year was overachieving. Take out our best all-around player...it's gonna get ugly.

Post #383 » by **jr lucosa** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:10 pm

europa wrote:
Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't see Ilyasova being that much of a difference maker.

I'm with you there. Ersan is not the difference in us being the 9th seed and the 13th seed. No way.

ampd · Post #384 » by **ampd** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:10 pm

LUKE23 wrote: this easily trumps drafting a big or signing someone like Kaman.

Exactly, and Kaman's contract wouldn't be an expiring deal either.

neiLz · Post #385 » by **neiLz** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:11 pm

Sad To see leuer go. But netting a C without having to draft one at 12 was worth it. I prefer in this order, Lamb, Ross, or T.Jones. Can't wait for draft night. Any word on if the bucks are done dealing?

JayMKE · Post #386 » by **JayMKE** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:11 pm

It's going to be really funny when we still take one of those bigs we've been targeting

I imagine the picks right before us will be Ross, Lamb, Jones

what is Dalembert going to mentor Sanders on? How to catch a basketball? :lol:

LUKE23 · Post #387 » by **LUKE23** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:11 pm

JoeHova wrote:It's not about Dalembert, it's about how Leuer is cheap. Obviously the economics of basketball are different because of the cap and matching trades and all that but a player who is good and cheap should have value.

The real problem with this trade is not so much the particular players involved, it's more that the team continues to seem directionless. Most of the trades Hammond makes can be somewhat justified if you squint hard enough. But what does that get anybody? This team is going nowhere and should be collecting young, cheap, good players; not trading them away for guys in their 30's. I hate trading youth for age and I hate moving down in drafts unless extra picks are forthcoming. It would even be one thing if Hammond's stupid strategy of stocking up on vets in order to make the 7th or 8th seed consistently worked. But it hasn't. He's made the playoffs once in his tenure. So, not only is his strategy stupid and pointless, he's also bad at implementing it.

Actually, this recent trade makes more sense than any of his draft day trades. Not that that is saying much. At least this one actually does help win now, even if people disagree with the direction. I hope you realize you're debating with someone who despises Hammond here.

But Leuer was signed for one more year at peanuts. He likely never would have even played enough to warrant a legitimate extension discussion. He's a decent young guy, but not worth getting pissed over. We have plenty of mediocre young PF/C prospects.

RiotPunch · Post #388 » by **RiotPunch** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:12 pm

LUKE23 wrote:Nobody is arguing that win now is good, but for win now, this easily trumps drafting a big or signing someone like Kaman. Hell, this likely prevents us from drafting a big.

So much this.

ampd · Post #389 » by **ampd** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:12 pm

On a related note I like Monta for Matthews / 11 even more now

Turk Nowitzki · Post #390 » by **Turk Nowitzki** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:12 pm

I'm not sure how it's even possible to hate this deal. It might not be that exciting but there's no way it can be bad.

xTitan · Post #391 » by **xTitan** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:12 pm

And what evidence is there that a tear down is remotely inevitable?

Hasn't Kohl indicated that he thinks the team needs to win in order to be more attractive for a new owner, as well as for a stadium deal to ever get done?

We all wish we'd blow it up properly...but if that's not happening, us finding some way to get into the 45-55 win sphere for a few years would still be great for a franchise over 10 years removed from the Big 3 days.

A team full of average players and journeymen who could possibly slide into the playoffs is not attractive to a fan base that has left and any new potential owner. What very well might be attractive to new ownership is a lot of cap room and no toxic contracts, perhaps this would be the most positive outcome with having tons of cap room next year. If you also consider the fact the GM and coach are up after next season, perhaps Herbie is thinking of selling.

JimmyTheKid · Post #392 » by **JimmyTheKid** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:12 pm

SheedsWeed wrote:At least this way we won't draft Zeller/Leonard/Henson.

True. And I agree. But how ass-backwards is this? We're happy to get out of the #12th spot and into #14 because of who might still be available at #12???? Shouldn't Hammond just pick the right ****ing player? Do we move down again if Leonard or Zeller is there at #14? Because they're just too G. D. tempting?

Post #393 » by **jr lucosa** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:13 pm

Sherman Douglas wrote:
jr lucosa wrote:
You're overvaluing a really good role player.

You're overrating the Bucks.

31-35 last year was overachieving. Take out our best all-around player...it's gonna get ugly.

It was not overachieving, it's exactly where we belonged. There is no one guy on this team worth that many wins or losses, no way. We have almost the same record every year with half our rotation being different players. Why is that? They are all role players. NONE of them have that big of an impact.

SpursNBucks · Post #394 » by **SpursNBucks** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:13 pm

xTitan wrote:On the surface it is a good deal, but what does it get you? Might get you into the playoffs, might get Johnny a contract extension, won't get you closer to a star, definitely doesn't get you closer to a championship....what it really does is delay the inevitable tear down and might possibly put this team in more peril of leaving the city.

They are light years away from beating the Heat or Thunder- all this move does is make them more competitive next year- it means that for one year your pick goes from 14 to 18 - they weren't going to tear it all down and start a bunch of young guys this coming year regardless. Anything can happen - provided they were going to try and be competitive this coming year- at least they will be more competitive. With another move or two I could see them becoming a top 5 or 6 seed. Who knows what the future holds from there- not every team took the OKC route - and a lot of things have to work for you to get there- not to mention a LOT of luck.

JayMKE · Post #395 » by **JayMKE** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:14 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
JayMKE wrote:I guess it's good Hammond is so stupid to think Dalembert is the answer at center

It's a win now trade without realizing that Dalembert sucks

Dalembert is better in 2012-13 than any center we take at 12 or can sign in FA. Nobody is arguing that win now is good, but for win now, this easily trumps drafting a big or signing someone like Kaman. Hell, this likely prevents us from drafting a big.

By what measure? Dalembert averaged 7 and 7 on a mediocre Rockets team. Sanders could do that, Udoh could do that. Dan Gadzuric did that. He sucks, no other way about it.

Baddy Chuck · Post #396 » by **Baddy Chuck** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:14 pm

If we don't get Lamb or Ross in the draft I don't even care about next season.

SkilesTheLimit · Post #397 » by **SkilesTheLimit** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:15 pm

jr lucosa wrote:
europa wrote:
Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't see Ilyasova being that much of a difference maker.

I'm with you there. Ersan is not the difference in us being the 9th seed and the 13th seed. No way.

For those inclined to want to resign Ersan, knowing it will take big bucks to do so....what do you envision as his ceiling? The problem I have committing the resources it will take to sign him is I don't see him being any better than he was last year.

So, are you paying him to be what he is NOW or are you envisioning him becoming a very good player?

A-HA · Post #398 » by **A-HA** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:17 pm

europa wrote:
Sherman Douglas wrote:
JayMKE wrote:I don't see how this improves our chances at all next season. We're still a 9th/8th seed team

nothing changes at all

Without Ersan we're a 12th/13th seed team.

Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't see Ilyasova being that much of a difference maker.

Is that because you anticipate a regression in performance?
If he plays like he did this past season, he's a significant contributor. The most productive on our team, from an individual standpoint.

Bucksfans1and2 · Post #399 » by **Bucksfans1and2** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:17 pm

Turk Nowitzki wrote:I'm not sure how it's even possible to hate this deal. It might not be that exciting but there's no way it can be bad.

I don't really like it.

If we leave Ersan than we got older and worse.

If we resign Ersan, than all we've done is taken away minutes from Udoh/Sanders and given them to Daly.

xTitan · Post #400 » by **xTitan** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:17 pm

SpursNBucks wrote:
xTitan wrote:On the surface it is a good deal, but what does it get you? Might get you into the playoffs, might get Johnny a contract extension, won't get you closer to a star, definitely doesn't get you closer to a championship....what it really does is delay the inevitable tear down and might possibly put this team in more peril of leaving the city.

They are light years away from beating the Heat or Thunder- all this move does is make them more competitive next year- it means that for one year your pick goes from 14 to 18 - they weren't going to tear it all down and start a bunch of young guys this coming year regardless. Anything can happen - provided they were going to try and be competitive this coming year- at least they will be more competitive. With another move or two I could see them becoming a top 5 or 6 seed. Who knows what the future holds from there- not every team took the OKC route - and a lot of things have to work for you to get there- not to mention a LOT of luck.

That's fine and dandy but the NBA is a league of stars, this team doesn't have anything close to a real star and they are not going to because you have to know who you are and when you are Milwaukee you need to draft one and then keep him, especially if he wants to stay.