Caron Butler traded to Bucks for Ish Smith and Kratsov

[crkone]

I really don't care they signed him, I just hope that Giannis and Middleton get minutes this year, ahead of Delfino. I'm expecting Butler to get like 28-32 minutes per game. The Delfino signing really bugs me now. No reason to do it with his injury.

[engelmartin]

The freaking Bucks, man. Right when you think the NBA’s wheeling-est, dealing-est candidate for the no. 8 playoff spot has left you alone to write about something fun — like perhaps this ode to Action Park, one of the half-dozen most important formative places in my life — here they come, dealing for an aging small forward on an expiring contract whose old team couldn’t even manage to snag a second-round pick in exchange.....

So the fact that we didn't give them a second rounder means he's a worse player? The more we trade for him, the better he is, huh? The fact that we traded barely anything for an expiring contract means this deal is actually a win, provided he helps and does not hinder the development of our young guys.

[KidA24]

I want video of Larry and Zaza's 3s

Sent from my Nexus 7 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[SpursNBucks]

They had $2.5 mill guaranteed tied up in two players that weren't going to make the team- and if they were to see the court it could have met sending Wolters to the D-League. If anything this opens up a chance for Wolters. With Delfino nursing an injury- Butler takes on the mentor role for Middleton and GA. Neither Middleton or GA are ready to start. Those two (especially GA) are still works in progress. This is really not a bad deal. I would have been fine with Middleton being thrown into the mix, but there's a fair chance he outperforms an aging Butler- record wise I don't see this having much if any impact. I think Middleton is groomed to take starter minutes next year after butler leaves. Delfino takes on the utilty back-up role in 2014 (his last year), and GA continues to learn- he is at least three years away.

[Treebeard]

The freaking Bucks, man. Right when you think the NBA’s wheeling-est, dealing-est candidate for the no. 8 playoff spot has left you alone to write about something fun — like perhaps this ode to Action Park, one of the half-dozen most important formative places in my life — here they come, dealing for an aging small forward on an expiring contract whose old team couldn’t even manage to snag a second-round pick in exchange.....

So the fact that we didn't give them a second rounder means he's a worse player? The more we trade for him, the better he is, huh?

I just put the opening lines down.

The article itself is fairly lengthy, and my overall take is that Lowe sees this trade as a very mixed bag.

That could change in Milwaukee if the Bucks lean on him for a little more shot creation — Brandon Knight ain’t Chris Paul — but leaning too much on Butler is probably damaging at this point for a team’s overall offense. Butler’s tough and willing as a defender, but his skills on that end are eroding with his quickness. Teams have eaten him up one-on-one in each of the last two seasons, per Synergy Sports, and Butler has developed a habit of bodying up guys far from the hoop — even shaky shooters. That has made him vulnerable to blow-by drives and ticky-tacky fouls.

But again, he’s an upgrade on Milwaukee’s roster, and this is a no-harm, no-foul trade that leaves Milwaukee with a sliver of cap room this season without eating into its room next summer, and gives it an expiring contract it might be able to dump for something — another second-rounder?!? — if Butler thrives.

The Bucks are providing something for him to write about in the dog-days of this offseason.

[emunney]

Eh, I'm interested in re-litigating the Bledsoe thing. If there's evidence out there that we could have had Bledsoe if we'd just taken on Butler, I'd like to see it. I have an open mind. Hit me.

Until then, I will continue to believe the reasonable thing: that the Clippers were compelled to make the move because they got two shooters and good team players that will fit perfectly there, and that otherwise they would have waited for something better.

We got a 2nd owned by the Suns and a 2nd owned by the Clips. Instead we take Butler and Bledsoe let the Suns keep their pick and take the Clippers pick. The Suns now have no Butler contract and two 2nd round picks for Dudley. The Clips have the same as before. So the Clips still do it. Now we're only talking about us sweetening the pot a bit for the Suns.

How is that far fetched? Bledsoe on the open market was worth Dudley+Redick-2nd round pick - Bulter's contract. There plenty of room for conversation there. Everyone is wondering: did we actually have that conversation?

BTW since this is a Caron Butler trade this topic should be merged with the season ticket thread IMO.

Wait a minute. Here's what your re-imagined trade looks like.

From Bucks -- s&T'd Redick
To Bucks -- Butler, Bledsoe

From Clippers -- Butler, Bledsoe, 2nd round pick
To Clips -- Redick, Dudley

So far, everybody's happy. But wait.

From Suns -- Dudley
To Suns -- Clippers 2nd round pick (2015 protected, likely 2016)

Sweetening the pot a bit? You've removed their entire motivation to get involved. We would have to give them a significant asset. Dudley is a good player on a fair contract. Again, we were the only team in this equation that was compelled to act by forces outside our control. If the Suns couldn't get Bledsoe for Dudley, or an asset from us, they could still certainly do better than a distant 2nd round pick and 'sweetener'.

It's far-fetched because we did not have the ammo to land Bledsoe without doing one of the following things:

1) Trade Henson
2) Trade Giannis
3) Trade next year's pick
4) Absorb Deandre Jordan's contract

Some people might be willing to do one of those things. I'm not one of them. You could add a provisional 5 (Trade Ersan), if you can find a team willing to take him and give the Suns some young assets or picks. I didn't include Trade Sanders because it's an obvious non-starter.

[driese0824]

Initial reaction is disappointment giving up Ish Smith. Fan of his game, thought had a chance to contribute this season when called upon. Can't argue about salary cap stuff but I do have a ton of respect for Butler. Think he'll be helpful until it's time for us to go ice fishing in February. I'm not too worried about hindering the development of Giannis and Khris. There's no way Butler & Delfino make it through a full 82 games this year. Hopefully the kids get their looks.

well butler did start 78 games last year so that's as close to a full season as you can get,n if hres healthy this year and by all accounts he is I think 70-75 games for him would be very good.fino ur right about

[ReddRum]

I really don't care they signed him, I just hope that Giannis and Middleton get minutes this year, ahead of Delfino. I'm expecting Butler to get like 28-32 minutes per game. The Delfino signing really bugs me now. No reason to do it with his injury.

Yeah Delfino sucks. He sucked when he left town and still sucks now - not sure why some people on here love the guy so much. Worthless signing IMO.

[JimmyTheKid]

I really don't care they signed him, I just hope that Giannis and Middleton get minutes this year, ahead of Delfino. I'm expecting Butler to get like 28-32 minutes per game. The Delfino signing really bugs me now. No reason to do it with his injury.

Yeah Delfino sucks. He sucked when he left town and still sucks now - not sure why some people on here love the guy so much. Worthless signing IMO.

Thats whats so frustrating. This front office watched him suck, first hand, when he was in his prime. What do they do? Bring him back on the downside of his career. That makes sense.

[driese0824]

Why we keep signing enough guys to relegate our first round picks to not only not play major minutes but totally bury them on the depth chart so they have no chance of getting in the game is beyond me.

Giannis has been in the states for what, 2 months? The kid is 18, in a foreign land, has zero idea what is in store for him and people are worried about him getting buried on the bench.

Butler will be here for ONE YEAR! I for one had zero expectations for Giannis to get playing time this year, zip, zilch, nada. It actually serves him better to get acclimated to the NBA to ride the pine this year. Sure the cap hit makes you scratch your head a bit but it isn't crushing.

Middleton will still play 20+ minutes a game so I don't see how he will be hindered in the least.

spot on post dude +1

[Dobber-16]

I can't believe that management has blown over $30M in cap space to fill out the roster with aging vet's. I've been trying to be optimistic about this team the last couple of years, but the latest moves just make my head ache.

And the 76'er's are around $12M BELOW the minimum cap, and have only 11 players signed. Guess who's going to rebuilt faster, even with the terrible trade that Philly made for Bynum?

These moves are sickening.

[LUKE23]

No chance Middleton gets 20+ minutes per game unless Delfino's foot is actually cut off and Neal also gets hurt.

[tski1972]

No chance Middleton gets 20+ minutes per game unless Delfino's foot is actually cut off and Neal also gets hurt.

well, right now Middleton is the number 2 SF on the roster if Delfino is hurt. I don't see how he doesn't get 20 minutes a game.

[Nebula1]

Why we keep signing enough guys to relegate our first round picks to not only not play major minutes but totally bury them on the depth chart so they have no chance of getting in the game is beyond me.

Giannis has been in the states for what, 2 months? The kid is 18, in a foreign land, has zero idea what is in store for him and people are worried about him getting buried on the bench.

Butler will be here for ONE YEAR! I for one had zero expectations for Giannis to get playing time this year, zip, zilch, nada. It actually serves him better to get acclimated to the NBA to ride the pine this year. Sure the cap hit makes you scratch your head a bit but it isn't crushing.

Middleton will still play 20+ minutes a game so I don't see how he will be hindered in the least.

This is the Bucks... they'll probably re-sign Butler after a productive 13/14 season.

And while I agree Giannis is raw, let him play. It's only sports and like most of us have been saying for years: We'd rather watch young guys develop while losing games in order to achieve a high draft pick.

Instead we've added another vet like we always do. And Butler is on top of already adding a vet in Delfino, which is fairly mind-numbing.


And I like Butler and welcome him to the squad. I just wish we hadn't added Delfino already and I want to see Giannis play regardless of his youth. And if he's not going to play, then I'd like to see him at least in the Ds, but the Bucks never use the Ds. I disagree about riding the pine being better for him than playing. Playing is always better than not playing.

[JimmyTheKid]

I can't believe that management has blown over $30M in cap space to fill out the roster with aging vet's. I've been trying to be optimistic about this team the last couple of years, but the latest moves just make my head ache.

And the 76'er's are around $12M BELOW the minimum cap, and have only 11 players signed. Guess who's going to rebuilt faster, even with the terrible trade that Philly made for Bynum?

These moves are sickening.

Well guess what. We weren't tanking. If the overall consensus is that our front court (Sanders, Ilyasova, Henson) was preventing us from being top-of-the-lottery bad, and it was the backcourt preventing us from taking the next step, then without trading Sanders, Ilyasova, Henson, there was just no possible way for us to be bad enough for a full-on rebuild (tankjob). Maybe Philly "rebuilds" faster, maybe not. We've overhauled the roster, added some young guys with upside, and currently have no bad long term contracts. Thats a pretty good start.

[LUKE23]

Delfino is not hurt long-term.

[Nebula1]

Initial reaction is disappointment giving up Ish Smith. Fan of his game, thought had a chance to contribute this season when called upon.

I liked Smith's game too and have my doubts about Wolters. Hopefully he can become productive.



It's funny because Phoenix is moving forward with their youth tank without any issue and here we are, facilitating everybody else as usual. Phoenix is in line for a top 5 pick and will surge past the Bucks in the next couple years as we debate re-signing Butler or finally trading Ersan.


Also, I'm totally in favor of dedicating a thread to Lowe.

[tski1972]

Delfino is not hurt long-term.

I should have clarified that as long as Delfino is hurt Middleton is going to play 20 minutes a game.

[Nebula1]

This also lends to the idea that Ersan probably won't be dealt.

[H2tObes]

ITT: Overreactions.

Butler is pretty much an end of the bench guy at this point of his career, he's expring and Giannis really doesn't need much in terms of minutes this year anyways. It's not like he will add wins either, he's a poor mans version of Delfino.

While this move is unnecessary, it really doesn't change too much. Middleton probably gets less minutes, but he could easily outperform Caron and Delfino and force himself to get PT.