Is Khris cooked?

[MickeyDavis]

Khris has been good in the playoffs to be sure. But only in 2,5 and 6 games the past 3 years. 23 games the championship year. But that was 4 years and surgeries ago. We're an all in team and would need him at a high level for 20+ playoff games, not 2, 5 or 6. Can he do that? I'm dubious.

[tedbrogen]

For some of us this has been evident for a long-time. Guy turns 34 in August. Most NBA players are cooked by then.

Yeah, the way his career is ending could not have played out more predictably. Still think if we would have gotten creative, even before 2021 (gasp!) we might have more than 1 championship. We’ll never know though, and I’m fine taking an L on that take and do love Khris for what he’s meant to this franchise.

If he hadn’t gone from the finals directly to the Olympics and then right back to another NBA season maybe he doesn’t break down so quickly?

Timing-wise things really worked against the Bucks. I never saw a real window to trade Midds for good value. They were never trading him in the offseason or regular season after the title. Then you’ve got a season that ends with him injured missing the playoffs. Then a season that ends with him needing a new contract and they couldn’t let him walk as it wouldn’t have gotten them cap space. Two regular seasons filled with missing tons of games and the offseason in between where he had double ankle surgery.

Unless you are a time traveler, I don’t know how you thread that needle and move him at the exact right time AND not upset Giannis.

If somehow they turn him into Butler or Lavine, that’s a great last minute save on what is close to being total sunk cost.

[MickeyDavis]

For some of us this has been evident for a long-time. Guy turns 34 in August. Most NBA players are cooked by then.

Yeah, the way his career is ending could not have played out more predictably. Still think if we would have gotten creative, even before 2021 (gasp!) we might have more than 1 championship. We’ll never know though, and I’m fine taking an L on that take and do love Khris for what he’s meant to this franchise.

Or no championships. We don't win in 2021 without Khris Middleton.

[-Jragon-]

For some of us this has been evident for a long-time. Guy turns 34 in August. Most NBA players are cooked by then.

Yeah, the way his career is ending could not have played out more predictably. Still think if we would have gotten creative, even before 2021 (gasp!) we might have more than 1 championship. We’ll never know though, and I’m fine taking an L on that take and do love Khris for what he’s meant to this franchise.

If he hadn’t gone from the finals directly to the Olympics and then right back to another NBA season maybe he doesn’t break down so quickly?

Timing-wise things really worked against the Bucks. I never saw a real window to trade Midds for good value. They were never trading him in the offseason or regular season after the title. Then you’ve got a season that ends with him injured missing the playoffs. Then a season that ends with him needing a new contract and they couldn’t let him walk as it wouldn’t have gotten them cap space. Two regular seasons filled with missing tons of games and the offseason in between where he had double ankle surgery.

Unless you are a time traveler, I don’t know how you thread that needle and move him at the exact right time AND not upset Giannis.

If somehow they turn him into Butler or Lavine, that’s a great last minute save on what is close to being total sunk cost.

You didn't have to be a time traveler. The signals were there and the defense/health has been going down for years.

*A few were advocating trading KM for MN Jimmy the 1st time around. We would have made more than 1 final by now pairing Butler with Giannis --- Butler made several without even having a teammate near as good.

*A quiet larger crowd of us knew that this last contract was bad for what we'd get but talked ourselves into it because by letting him walk we couldn't use that money anyways. Sign and trade would have been a better option. Waiting this long may have been a favor to GA but other than that it's a fail.

[tedbrogen]

For some of us this has been evident for a long-time. Guy turns 34 in August. Most NBA players are cooked by then.

Yeah, the way his career is ending could not have played out more predictably. Still think if we would have gotten creative, even before 2021 (gasp!) we might have more than 1 championship. We’ll never know though, and I’m fine taking an L on that take and do love Khris for what he’s meant to this franchise.

Or no championships. We don't win in 2021 without Khris Middleton.

This right here. No way they win in 2021 without Midds. Their entire late game offense revolved around Midds working the two man game with Giannis or just Midds taking over against the Hawks when Giannis was out. Midds put up a 40 piece in the finals. Go look up a list of players that have done that. He deserves a statue for 2021 alone.

[mediocrityrules]

I feel like he's just the impact/glue guy now. 15-25 mins a night (depending on match-ups and whether he gets 'hot' or not). Off the bench, mainly with the second unit. I feel he'll give us a solid return if we lower our expectations and play him accordingly. Of course that now means he's costing us too much for what he's worth.

[AussieBuck]

Voted yes in that he's done as a dependable guy. Would still rather have him than not if the alternative is anyone else who doesn't defend. If he's staying, just nurse him into the playoffs, he'll still be super useful for 20 minutes a game hidden a bunch of ways.

[Baddy Chuck]

What is the percent chance we get last playoffs Khris in the playoffs?

I'm curious what you all think.

30% chance he’s injured and doesn’t play
50% chance we get some meaningful contributions commensurate with a guy who is a 5-6th in your rotation
20% chance we get Indy playoffs Khris

So a 50% chance he's better than Josh Giddey and a 20% chance we win a title. I'd take that.

[Jez2983]

What the hell does cooked mean?

Is he a capable NBA player? Yes.

Are we overpaying him, and therefore expecting more of him than he's capable of? Yes and probably yes.

People love black and white when things are grey...

[StickeeFingaz]

What is the percent chance we get last playoffs Khris in the playoffs?

I'm curious what you all think.

Like 5% chance. The playoffs are only going to be more physical, and I don’t like what I’ve seen when defenders have been physical with Khris.

[Lippo]

For some of us this has been evident for a long-time. Guy turns 34 in August. Most NBA players are cooked by then.

Middleton has had a spectacular career, probably been a top-five all-time Buck but father time has come.

I'm sure a few of you will blow raspberries at me if he puts up a 30 point night tomorrow. But that's a normal decline pattern for great players. They don't just end overnight, but have fits and starts and are still capable of having a big night now and then. His pattern is pretty similar to what happened with Sidney Moncrief. It just started earlier for Sid.

Yup he Dominique Wilkins on the Spurs at this point, but making 40m

[ShootingtheJ]

For some of us this has been evident for a long-time. Guy turns 34 in August. Most NBA players are cooked by then.

Middleton has had a spectacular career, probably been a top-five all-time Buck but father time has come.

I'm sure a few of you will blow raspberries at me if he puts up a 30 point night tomorrow. But that's a normal decline pattern for great players. They don't just end overnight, but have fits and starts and are still capable of having a big night now and then. His pattern is pretty similar to what happened with Sidney Moncrief. It just started earlier for Sid.

Yup he Dominique Wilkins on the Spurs at this point, but making 40m

He doesn't make $40 million.

[Frank Nova]

What the hell does cooked mean?

Is he a capable NBA player? Yes.

Are we overpaying him, and therefore expecting more of him than he's capable of? Yes and probably yes.

People love black and white when things are grey...

I love this. Khris Middleton has become the definition of a gray area for me. From a black and white perspective there’s no definitive answer which is where the inconsistency originates. You can’t definitively say 1 way or another, is he cooked? It’s not really a fair assessment imho. I’ve been very critical of the player Khris has become this year, double ankle surgery in the off season can’t be an easy thing to deal with when you’re 33 and have 150k+ miles on your tires. A car engine craps out on you the same way your body can at that point. But I think “inconsistent” is the best way to describe Khris and there couldn’t be inconsistency without signs of life followed by signs of dread which is the gray area.

My question still remains - Can Khris be the 3rd wheel we need for a deep playoff run? I think that’s a much more cognitive discussion than whether or not he’s “cooked”. He’s paid like a 3rd star but he’s not performing as such, that is a major issue for me when there’s really no alternative besides finding a replacement level player that can be the guy we need. Khris deserves a little more respect from the fan base for what he’s accomplished as a Buck but it’s a “what have you done for me lately” type of business and Khris is on the wrong side of that argument now. Can he come around? Sure why not? We’ve seen it just last year in the playoffs. Is Jon Horst bold enough to bank on that and risk falling short another year in Giannis’ prime and the last remaining elite Dame years? We’ll see I guess.

[tydett]

I don't think the question is whether Khris is cooked, I think the question is how much % of your salary can you afford to spend on him as his career length takes its toll on his body, and will he agree to that. Like, Khris has done a lot for this organization, and if he wants to try and get one more bag and opts out, you don't give it to him. But if he enjoys playing with this team, and opts out and is willing to sign a 2/30 deal or something, you feel a lot better about him. If he's planning on opting in, you consider trading him just because his salary slot is important for a second apron team and the lack of assets means his contract is probably harder to clear next year without taking on some trash. I suspect that Khris' future in Milwaukee is tied to contract discussions we'll never be privy to, and a pretty loyal FO trying to do right by one of the franchise's greats

[Eeavers57]

Read all 3 pages and not a single stat or analytic to back any of these claims that 'he's cooked' are in fact accurate. Appears to be a lot of eye test, which can certainly be a good analysis, don't get me wrong. So here are some stats this year compared to championship season. Make your own conclusions but I said he's not cooked. Still a net positive when on the court, but turning the ball over more and not scoring as many points due to usage being lower. Increase his usage and let him do the cooking.

NETRTG
24-25 = 5.8
20-21 = 6.2

AST%
24-25 = 26.4
20-21 = 22.7

AST/TO
24-25 = 2.91
20-21 = 2.08

TO RATIO
24-25 = 9.8
20-21 = 10.4

TS%
24-25 = 59.2
20-21 = 58.8

USG%
24-25 = 20.6
20-21 = 24.5

PIE (Player Impact Estimate)
24-25 = 11.2
20-21 = 12.3

[Wonka]

His body isn't going to magically turn a corner. He isn't going to "round back" into being passable on D. He's genuinely worse than Bobby on D. He's a complete turnstile regardless of the matchup.

I know it's an emotional issue. But our failures as of late have been defined by emotional decision-making instead of logical decision-making. If we want to compete, he's not a guy we can depend on.

Cooked.

[Wonka]

Read all 3 pages and not a single stat or analytic to back any of these claims that 'he's cooked' are in fact accurate. Appears to be a lot of eye test, which can certainly be a good analysis, don't get me wrong. So here are some stats this year compared to championship season. Make your own conclusions but I said he's not cooked. Still a net positive when on the court, but turning the ball over more and not scoring as many points due to usage being lower. Increase his usage and let him do the cooking.

NETRTG
24-25 = 5.8
20-21 = 6.2

AST%
24-25 = 26.4
20-21 = 22.7

AST/TO
24-25 = 2.91
20-21 = 2.08

TO RATIO
24-25 = 9.8
20-21 = 10.4

TS%
24-25 = 59.2
20-21 = 58.8

USG%
24-25 = 20.6
20-21 = 24.5

PIE (Player Impact Estimate)
24-25 = 11.2
20-21 = 12.3

Far too many NBA fans use numbers that they barely understand to prop up an argument that they've barely backed up. You're using numbers like AST% and AST/TO ratio in an argument that has nothing to do with his playmaking ability at all.

[MissKhriddleton]

For some of us this has been evident for a long-time. Guy turns 34 in August. Most NBA players are cooked by then.

Yeah, the way his career is ending could not have played out more predictably. Still think if we would have gotten creative, even before 2021 (gasp!) we might have more than 1 championship. We’ll never know though, and I’m fine taking an L on that take and do love Khris for what he’s meant to this franchise.

Or no championships. We don't win in 2021 without Khris Middleton.

None is defnitely possible. I just think when we look back at Giannis's career, trying to figure out how we only got 1 championship with a top 10 player of all time (and at this point, looking like one finals appearance), my prime suspect is going to be Khris Middleton for masquerading as a number 2 for 90% of it when really he's never been more than a number 3. Albeit a *GREAT number 3 that, with the stars aligning, was enough to put us over the top.

Some people are content with one, can't fault anyone for that.

[theFireBlanket]

Put him back in the starting lineup & get him more involved on O. Prince to the bench.

[Bernman]

Yeah, the way his career is ending could not have played out more predictably. Still think if we would have gotten creative, even before 2021 (gasp!) we might have more than 1 championship. We’ll never know though, and I’m fine taking an L on that take and do love Khris for what he’s meant to this franchise.[/quo
Some people are content with one, can't fault anyone for that.

Yea, it really has nothing to do w/ Giannis getting injured the last 2 & frequently being contained by a wall-off cuz he couldn't shoot anything over a d.

If Khris wasn't #2 level we wouldn't have won 1. There wasn't even any other #3.

It's odd to have that user-name & avatar, w/out meaning ironically. That's a bizarre & genuine axe to grind.