Vecsey prints the details on the Z-Bo rumor

[Sigra]

I would've done that deal. Yeah blah, blah, blah max contract, character issues whatever he still puts up 17/10 per game and provides a hell of a lot more than Simmons and Gadz do at the same price.

[Mike X]

Quote:
"I would've taken that deal in a heartbeat," an impartial head coach said. "The Bucks are saturated with perimeter shooters who would really thrive if defend ers had to honor an in side game. Zach draws double teams, no two ways about it. "I under stand Zach has a past. I understand his personality, issues and liabilities must be managed. I understand his contract is a major league obligation. But if a good team wants to get someplace, someone must be able to get you to that position. If that someone averages 20 and 10 (actually 16.8 points and 10 rebounds in 31.8 minutes) and it's more than he's giving up at the other end, you pull the trigger."

Obviously, much, if not all of the above made the Bucks too squeamish

In conclusion, if according to me, the Bucks turned down this deal, "then someone should consider anesthetizing their GM, while Isiah should be brought before the Nuremberg tribunal for crimes against mankind," Chip Stern e-mails in full rant.



I think thats the quote that shreds any credibility for the so-called "coach". I dont see any of our chucking back-court involved in the trade so presumably they'll still be on the Bucks hoisting up shots as they see fit.

And if Randolph was on the team that would soon lead to his cancerous personality coming to the fore.

[coolhandluke121]

Coolhand - That Sacramento trade is entirely reasonable. Randolph and 2008 first round pick for Artest and Thomas. Both teams win. Just as long as Randolph stays away from Milwaukee.

Yeah, it seems reasonable to me. However, I'm not sure you realize I was referring to Sacto as the 3rd team, i.e. Bucks send CV/Gadz/Bobby to NY and get Artest/Thomas from Sacto.

Some tinkering probably required to make it a fair trade for everyone, but seems the main points of the trade could be feasible.

[syntax]

HELL NO

Whatever Randolph brings on the court it isn't worth having a punk like that on the team. He's another Ruben only this time with a max contract. I bet if he was a free agent his situation would be similar to Ruben's and he would not get a game anywhere in the NBA.

[BuckSkins Fan]

From what we heard it was much closer in real life. The two sides are still talking. CV has asked to be traded. Now with Redd back, chemistry is gone and everyone including Redd knows Redd is the propblem. CV pointed that out to him recently...I think in Pheonix. Don`t think this will change Redd`s game though. He is what he is. Uncle Chuckster is the new nickname.

We are thinking and hearing that something will happen.....no idea when though. We were told NY, Miami, NO, and Golden State and otherswere interested. A even bigger problem is that first Harris must like the deal enough to take it to Kohl and his bunch of idiots. Harris does not have any power to do anything now.

[icat2000]

Redd has to be shipped out. Can't blame CV asking for trade when he has been riding the pine an awful lot when he could have played more PF time especially when Yi was sucking it up on court.

Still wouldn't take on Randolph. Would have to definately change the team name to the Chucky Bucks.

[europa]

From what we heard it was much closer in real life. The two sides are still talking. CV has asked to be traded. Now with Redd back, chemistry is gone and everyone including Redd knows Redd is the propblem. CV pointed that out to him recently...I think in Pheonix. Don`t think this will change Redd`s game though. He is what he is. Uncle Chuckster is the new nickname.

If Redd truly is the problem perhaps it's in the best interests of the team to move him. However, I think it's pretty damn funny that Villanueva would have the stones to call out anybody as bad as he's been this season.

That's the bigger problem that appears to be arising. It's certainly a problem if the players have issues with Redd but I think it's an even bigger problem if the Bucks relent and make a deal involving Redd merely to appease a number of players who aren't anywhere near as good as he is and in some cases are having terrible seasons.

That's the rub.

[EastSideBucksFan]

From what we heard it was much closer in real life. The two sides are still talking. CV has asked to be traded. Now with Redd back, chemistry is gone and everyone including Redd knows Redd is the propblem. CV pointed that out to him recently...I think in Pheonix. Don`t think this will change Redd`s game though. He is what he is. Uncle Chuckster is the new nickname.

We are thinking and hearing that something will happen.....no idea when though. We were told NY, Miami, NO, and Golden State and otherswere interested. A even bigger problem is that first Harris must like the deal enough to take it to Kohl and his bunch of idiots. Harris does not have any power to do anything now.

WOW, there's a few bombshells in there if I've ever seen it.

CV has asked to be traded. Not a surprise there I guess. He knows that Yi is the long term future of this team.

It sounds like Redd is one of the outsiders on this team. Thats why he can never be the leader. His play has reflected that as of recently. He is hesitant to shoot the ball.

NY, Miami, NO, and GSW are some interesting teams that I could see looking at Redd and/or CV.

NY - I don't see any good Redd trades here. CV prob has value with them, we'd be looking at Renaldo Balkman possibly.

Miami - I'm sure they would love to have either Mo/CV/Redd in any package. I'd take a CV for Haslem type deal, not likely though. I don't like the idea of trading Mo and I don't like moving Redd for expirings.

NO - They'd be looking at Redd surely. They'd probably be willing to move Peja, but we'd have no interest. I would hate the idea of watching a Paul/Redd backcourt.

GSW - This one could be the most likely. They are on the cusp and could be a move or two away. I'm willing to believe Al Harrington could be had for the right price and we know Pietrus is out there. Perhaps some sort of a Redd/CV swap for Pietrus and Harrington.

[REDDzone]

From what we heard it was much closer in real life. The two sides are still talking. CV has asked to be traded. Now with Redd back, chemistry is gone and everyone including Redd knows Redd is the propblem. CV pointed that out to him recently...I think in Pheonix. Don`t think this will change Redd`s game though. He is what he is. Uncle Chuckster is the new nickname.

We are thinking and hearing that something will happen.....no idea when though. We were told NY, Miami, NO, and Golden State and otherswere interested. A even bigger problem is that first Harris must like the deal enough to take it to Kohl and his bunch of idiots. Harris does not have any power to do anything now.

You are my favorite poster on realgm.

Its NOT close.

[cam2win]

From what we heard it was much closer in real life. The two sides are still talking. CV has asked to be traded. Now with Redd back, chemistry is gone and everyone including Redd knows Redd is the propblem. CV pointed that out to him recently...I think in Pheonix. Don`t think this will change Redd`s game though. He is what he is. Uncle Chuckster is the new nickname.

We are thinking and hearing that something will happen.....no idea when though. We were told NY, Miami, NO, and Golden State and otherswere interested. A even bigger problem is that first Harris must like the deal enough to take it to Kohl and his bunch of idiots. Harris does not have any power to do anything now.

Post of the year. You are the main reason I don't want Bobby traded.

[BuckSkins Fan]

I have been keeping quiet.

ESBF and europa and ofcorse REDDzone great posts. It`s been really wild watching this happen as Redd came back. The complete chemistry changed. Everyone, and I mean everyone became very guarded of their shots. They knew that no matter what happends through the first 3 quaters, the fourth quater would be another episode of Uncle Chuckster.

As europa said, this is a huge problem. Kohl loves Redd. I can`t see him leaving, but he also loves/loved CV untill he asked to be traded .

The Laker, Suns, and Utah games were all games we could have won, but for many many reasons it didn`t happen. The players seem to be using Redd as the scapegoat. He is definitely becoming the outsider, especially now. I have been saying this since I first posted. Redd`s basketball IQ is terrible. Beyond terrible.

On the bright side, Bell is tremendous. He is the ultimate glue guy on a team. Everyone likes him and respects him, he is trying to keep everyone close and keeping everyone on the same page. That man has no quit. Not only has Bell come out of his slump, but he has been huge for Bobby too. There is a ton of respect for Bell.

On a funny side note, did anyone see the article about Redd and the team playing pool and going bowling in Charlotte for team building reasons? Redd mentioned nobody beat him playing pool. He`s just such a jackass. CV beat him twice.

Why would he feel the need to lie about something like that?

[BuckSkins Fan]

cam2win...

We are probably 65%-70% sure Bobby is gonna get traded. Bartelstein was given the OK to look into a trade. Not that it matters because the whole Harris/Kohl/Kohl`s Idiots, may keep other teams away. Who would call a GM about a trade that has no power?

[cam2win]

cam2win...

We are probably 65%-70% sure Bobby is gonna get traded. Bartelstein was given the OK to look into a trade. Not that it matters because the whole Harris/Kohl/Kohl`s Idiots, may keep other teams away. Who would call a GM about a trade that has no power?

I really appreciate your insights and your honesty is much appreciated. I've liked Bobby and was thrilled when he signed here. Like a few others it just seems like a change of scenery is needed. Your absolutly correct about Kohl, and it's a shame.

[europa]

The players seem to be using Redd as the scapegoat.

And this is a major problem in my opinion. There needs to be more accountability. Redd did not play well in the fourth quarter against Utah. But Mo in my opinion was worse. Villanueva was so sad in his first run of the game Krystkowiak didn't even want to play him again. I know Bobby is your boy, BuckSkinsFan, and I've been a big supporter of him as well but it's not like he played all that well last night either.

To me, this is the greater problem. It seems a divide is growing between Redd and the rest of the team. That would be easily solved if Redd wasn't so much better than just about everyone on the team and if so many of the players who are apparently unhappy with him weren't having such terrible seasons.

That you can have so many players who are having bad seasons getting upset over a player who's having a good season speaks volumes about what a f'd up situation this is.

Again, I'm fine with trading Redd at this point. I think this team has fallen so far that trading him might be inevitable at this point. But that still doesn't address the multitude of other problems that clearly exist on this team.

[Fort Minor]

-= original quote snipped =-



You are my favorite poster on realgm.

Its NOT close.

[BuckSkins Fan]

You are 100% right europa.

You made a great point. Accountability.

Nobody is held accountable for anything. Not the coach, not the players. Nobody. Players are late and goof off at practice, and nothing happends.
That`s just one example, but I get your point.

Bobby had a list of exscuses for last night and they were garbage. Bottom line, he didn`t play well. He took himself out of the game with two horrible fouls. But he is not held accountable for that. Nor is Redd or Mo in the fourth quater. Neither is CV. Nobody is.

Who should the players be accountable to when they don`t all respect the coach, the GM is a lame duck. At this point the players need to hold eachother accountable but it`s not happening.

I watched the end of the Wizards and the Celtics game and Caron Butler was all up in his teamates faces yelling and screaming with a look in his eyes that said nothing but kill. We need someone like that. Caron Butler is a beast on both ends of the floor.

[xTitan]

From what we heard it was much closer in real life. The two sides are still talking. CV has asked to be traded. Now with Redd back, chemistry is gone and everyone including Redd knows Redd is the propblem. CV pointed that out to him recently...I think in Pheonix. Don`t think this will change Redd`s game though. He is what he is. Uncle Chuckster is the new nickname.

We are thinking and hearing that something will happen.....no idea when though. We were told NY, Miami, NO, and Golden State and otherswere interested. A even bigger problem is that first Harris must like the deal enough to take it to Kohl and his bunch of idiots. Harris does not have any power to do anything now.

First off I want to say I have no inside info on this at all, but I can totally buy this....Redd was 5-16 in Pheonix, basically froze Bogut out in the 4th quarter (he was not alone)....then he takes 12 shots or whatever it was against Utah....first thing that went through my mind was someone must have spoken to Redd.

[xTitan]

cam2win...

We are probably 65%-70% sure Bobby is gonna get traded. Bartelstein was given the OK to look into a trade. Not that it matters because the whole Harris/Kohl/Kohl`s Idiots, may keep other teams away. Who would call a GM about a trade that has no power?

I have news for you.....Harris has NEVER had any power, everything goes through the lawyers, every team in the league knows it, which is why Harris' stock is nowhere near as low as many people on here think. Bogut was the one who arranged the pool party and I thought he did it in Philly, I thought Yi was the pool shark! Just watching this team its obvious to me who the problem is, but at least bogut has not backed down offensively since Redd's return.

[EastSideBucksFan]

-= original quote snipped =-



And this is a major problem in my opinion. There needs to be more accountability. Redd did not play well in the fourth quarter against Utah. But Mo in my opinion was worse. Villanueva was so sad in his first run of the game Krystkowiak didn't even want to play him again. I know Bobby is your boy, BuckSkinsFan, and I've been a big supporter of him as well but it's not like he played all that well last night either.

To me, this is the greater problem. It seems a divide is growing between Redd and the rest of the team. That would be easily solved if Redd wasn't so much better than just about everyone on the team and if so many of the players who are apparently unhappy with him weren't having such terrible seasons.

That you can have so many players who are having bad seasons getting upset over a player who's having a good season speaks volumes about what a f'd up situation this is.

Again, I'm fine with trading Redd at this point. I think this team has fallen so far that trading him might be inevitable at this point. But that still doesn't address the multitude of other problems that clearly exist on this team.

I agree completely with europa's point here.

Right now it seems there is a mutiny. The best player on the team, who takes the most shots, is paid the most money, is the guy everyone is rebelling against. Jealousy is a word that can be used across the board. Consciously or subconsciously.

Plenty of other players inabilities, for whatever reason, to produce on the basketball floor are being blamed on the top dog. It must be his fault. He's the reason I'm not getting mine.

Guys need to look within and do whatever it takes to compete in the face of adversity. That includes everyone on the team.

But the supbar producers calling out the guy who can consistently do it night in and night out is not right.

If it is such a widespread problem then some moves need to be made.

Not necessarily trading Redd in a knee jerk reaction move.

CV wants out? Get him out of here, find a player who can bring it every night. Find a player that cares about playing winning basketball and prides himself on his effort and his defense.

[EastSideBucksFan]

You are 100% right europa.

You made a great point. Accountability.

Nobody is held accountable for anything. Not the coach, not the players. Nobody. Players are late and goof off at practice, and nothing happends.
That`s just one example, but I get your point.

Bobby had a list of exscuses for last night and they were garbage. Bottom line, he didn`t play well. He took himself out of the game with two horrible fouls. But he is not held accountable for that. Nor is Redd or Mo in the fourth quater. Neither is CV. Nobody is.

Who should the players be accountable to when they don`t all respect the coach, the GM is a lame duck. At this point the players need to hold eachother accountable but it`s not happening.

I watched the end of the Wizards and the Celtics game and Caron Butler was all up in his teamates faces yelling and screaming with a look in his eyes that said nothing but kill. We need someone like that. Caron Butler is a beast on both ends of the floor.

How do you hold players accountable when they refuse to do so themself?

There needs to be a player on the team like Caron I wholeheartedly agree.

And I feel honestly the best player to take that position is either Mo or Bogut. They both have the competitive fire, but I'd like to see it out of Bogut. He's the player that we need to do well if we are to compete. Same goes for Yi, but he is not close yet. Bogut is very close to being a leader. He can be the guy to get in his teammates faces.

LK needs to pull guys who don't follow the game plan.

Redd should have been pulled last night in the 4th quarter.

Thats how you hold a player accountable.

Next time he goes in, if he wants to stay in, he'll follow the game plan.