1/12/2009 Woelfel: Conley deal waiting for Herb (poll added)

Post #41 » by **paulpressey25** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:56 pm

This is definitely John Hammond's trade for "Brett Favre" Ron Wolf equivalent. He could look like a genius on this one a year from today.

Other than the fact he hasn't figured out how to trade Redd, I give Hammond high marks for cajones and identifying a guy he wants and going for it.

Licensed to Il · Post #42 » by **Licensed to Il** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:57 pm

Bingo Europa.

If this deal goes down, it is because the organization does not want to give a medium/long term contract to Ramon and (unlike previous regimes) is smart enough to think ahead and not be forced at the deadline to overpay for a guy that doesn't fit their plans.

And that doesn't mean they don't think Sessions is a fine player. Just that he is not what they want long term at the position.

LUKE23 · Post #43 » by **LUKE23** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:57 pm

I don't believe it is. Conley went fourth for a reason last year. He came into the league with virtually everyone believing he had major talent. It clearly hasn't happened yet but if it does (and yes that's an "if" which is why this is a gamble), Hammond will have gotten the best player in the trade - and perhaps by a considerable margin. As much as I like Sessions, I don't think he has Conley's ceiling.

Well, I don't think you can argue draft position as talent. Guys go higher than they should (many will point to Alexander as an example here, but I digress), all the time. We do have 1 1/2 seasons of Conley's sample size in the books, compared to 1 1/2 seasons of Sessions. Sessions has been better so far, and has just as many standout physical attributes as Conley does.

I don't think we should just say "he got drafted fourth so he must have potential". A better question is, if Conley was drafted 20th last year, but had the exact same career so far, how would you feel about this deal?

Fight the Tank · Post #44 » by **Fight the Tank** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:58 pm

I may have to start watching 2007 Ohio State tourney games to get me turned on about this.

I have learned to drink the Bucks kool aid even through inevitable disappointment.

That said if its a 1st obviously it is a great trade, but if not I guess we definitely have to wait and see.

jerrod · Post #45 » by **jerrod** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:58 pm

europa wrote: I love how aggressive Hammond has been in terms of fixing this team

even when he's fixing his own mistake?

i think joe was a bad pick and i was never that high on sessions, but i don't like this. i wasn't that big on conley before the draft (much higher than i was on joe though) and he hasn't shown anything.

throw in a first round pick and i'd do it, but this shows a clear choice to try to cut salary while keeping redd and rj, which i think is completely nuts.

europa · Post #46 » by **europa** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:01 pm

My reason for liking this deal should it go down is based entirely on my belief in Conley's potential. I have stated several times already he hasn't played well to date. I don't know anyone who would argue that he has. That isn't the point. If you don't believe in Conley's potential, then this isn't a trade you will endorse. But if you do believe in his potential and have any questions about Sessions and/or Alexander (I don't have any about Session but it seems clear the team does to some extent and likely with Alexander as well), then this is a trade you make.

And I agree with Will, if this trade is made, this will be another clear indication of what significant break from the previous regime Hammond is as a GM. If he makes this trade, it will be another sign he wants his players on the team and those he has questions about or isn't entirely comfortable with (for whatever reason) won't be here. I like that aggressiveness and it's not just because this approach is what I've been begging to see the past two years but never did.

Well maybe a little.

LUKE23 · Post #47 » by **LUKE23** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:04 pm

Can someone who follows player historical trends very closely give me a list of NBA PG's who didn't show much of anything for their first 1 1/2 seasons, but went on to have good careers overall? I just would like to know what we are up against here.

jerrod · Post #48 » by **jerrod** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:05 pm

so instead of guys that hammond isn't entirely comfortable with, we have:

rj, who is not that good anymore and makes a ton
luke, who is playing great lately but no one seems to think is anything more than a stopgap
luc, who is great, no problem there
and joe, who is essentially a throw in as part of a trade to bring back a player who hasn't done anything.

i'm just saying that "hammond's guys" overall haven't exactly set the world on fire

europa · Post #49 » by **europa** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:06 pm

Nash and Billups are the strongest examples. Deron Williams would be a more recent example. He did not have a very good rookie year.

jokeboy86 · Post #50 » by **jokeboy86** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:06 pm

Wow. This says to me that we are officially in win now mode cause of the economy. This is now 2 years in a row where we've given up on waiting for our lottery picks. Hammond probably feels that Conley is further along than JA and Sessions. If its a 1st round pick than maybe I would love the deal but I really don't know what to think of this. JA hardly played here so how could we know whether he's a bust or a stud.

LISTEN2JAZZ · Post #51 » by **LISTEN2JAZZ** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:08 pm

Jerrod wrote:i'm just saying that "hammond's guys" overall haven't exactly set the world on fire

That's only because you purposely left out Elson, Lue, and Allen. Way to push an agenda.

LUKE23 · Post #52 » by **LUKE23** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:11 pm

europa wrote:Nash and Billups are the strongest examples. Deron Williams would be a more recent example. He did not have a very good rookie year.

Those are good ones, although I wouldn't say Williams and Billups didn't show much their rookie year, both were pretty solid. Nash I agree.

LUKE23 · Post #53 » by **LUKE23** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:12 pm

Enlund has just reported that we traded Yi and Simmons for Richard Jefferson. I think RJ will be a good running mate with Conley.

europa · Post #54 » by **europa** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:14 pm

LUKE23 wrote:Enlund has just reported that we traded Yi and Simmons for Richard Jefferson. I think RJ will be a good running mate with Conley.

Thanks Luke. Can you check on Ford's status? Is he still day-to-day?

jerrod · Post #55 » by **jerrod** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:15 pm

adamcz wrote:
Jerrod wrote:i'm just saying that "hammond's guys" overall haven't exactly set the world on fire
That's only because you purposely left out Elson, Lue, and Allen. Way to push an agenda.

damn, you got me

i think what we need right now, is for someone to link an incredibly flattering conley youtube video with some good music. that should get us feeling good about this

Post #56 » by **paulpressey25** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:18 pm

LUKE23 wrote:Can someone who follows player historical trends very closely give me a list of NBA PG's who didn't show much of anything for their first 1 1/2 seasons, but went on to have good careers overall? I just would like to know what we are up against here.

I think we are up against a lot. I went back last week and looked at Deron's Williams rookie year and he had a ton more big breakout games as a rookie than Conley did.

This was my fear with Alexander. The longer we waited to see at least one or two break-out games, the less likely we'd have them and the more likely Alexander wouldn't turn into much.

Nash is the anomaly for everything. He wasn't picked in the lotto so he wasn't scrutinized like the elite prospects.

The only hope I have where Conley would be different is based on the fact he declared as a freshman so he's still really inexperienced.

cam2win · Post #57 » by **cam2win** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:20 pm

As a huge fan of Ramon's and someone who wanted Joe and has stuck with him....I actually like this trade alot. The reason is the higher ceiling IMO that Conley has than either of them. To me Ramon's and Joe's trade value may not be higher than it is right now and it's more a buy low on Conley.

I think another point to keep in mind is in Woefel's article. We all know that LRMAM has sort of taken Joe's spot now and for the next couple years. But it also sounds like they team is high on Ersan and feels that he'll be coming back soon. If that is the case then this move also clears room and playing time for him when that happens.

Octopus Jonny · Post #58 » by **Octopus Jonny** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:20 pm

Sessions is better than Conley. Straight up. His D is a little behind, but I'd rather cough up $5m for Ramon than lose him AND Alexander. On potential, we get screwed! Alexander is sitting in a logjam for getting minutes and Sessions is still making youthful mistakes, but combined those 2 have far more "potential" than Mike playedwithOdenmywholelife Conley.

EastSideBucksFan · Post #59 » by **EastSideBucksFan** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:22 pm

Now that I think about this trade a bit more, if its going to be a 2nd round pick, I'd rather try to get them to include Darko. We desperately need some size going into the playoffs and he can play both frontcourt positions and would probably be our starter next to Bogut.

If its Conley/Darko for Sessions/JA then that would almost be a slam dunk deal for me

Post #60 » by **paulpressey25** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:24 pm

cam2win wrote: But it also sounds like they team is high on Ersan and feels that he'll be coming back soon. If that is the case then this move also clears room and playing time for him when that happens.

That's a good point. If Ersan ends up back on this team, this move will have cleared the way both playing time wise and financially.

Are you in favor of the proposed trade (Conley for Sessions/JA)?