The Official Playoffs Thread

[Newz]

Sadly, unlike Ben Jordan, he doesn't have Derrick Rose and the rest of the talent that the Bulls have.

Other than Rose, what great talent do the Bulls have exactly?

I didn't say there talent was great, now did I? But having an all-world point guard certainly doesn't hurt... Especially when you are a SG and he is getting you open looks.

I said that he doesn't have the talent Ben Gordon has around him... The talent doesn't have to be great to be better than the Bucks, because their team isn't very talented.

Noah, Thomas, Miller, Salmons, Hinrich are all above average players. I would much, much rather have the supporting the Bulls team around Gordon than I would the Bucks team around Redd. Hands down, any day of the week.

[paulpressey25]

It kind of hurts me to say it but this Bulls team is fun to watch. It seems like that Salmons, Miller deal has been the most underrated trade this year.

There were a few here that had that trade ranked as genius level.

I think I was advocating we make that trade back in December, using Redd and Alexander and having expirings being sent to Sacramento.

But we needed to keep Redd since it was Hammond's plan to trade him only at the trading deadline or in the offseason.

[midranger]

LukeP

Post his 2003 and 2004 playoff stats..... they were um.... less good.

[midranger]

It kind of hurts me to say it but this Bulls team is fun to watch. It seems like that Salmons, Miller deal has been the most underrated trade this year.

There were a few here that had that trade ranked as genius level.

I think I was advocating we make that trade back in December, using Redd and Alexander and having expirings being sent to Sacramento.

But we needed to keep Redd since it was Hammond's plan to trade him only at the trading deadline or in the offseason.

PP was definitely all over this trade early on. Several people spoke about trading Redd for Salmons straight up last year.

[europa]

Flipping between 24 and the end of the game. Helluva shot by Ray.

[Newz]

LukeP

Post his 2003 and 2004 playoff stats..... they were um.... less good.

Ok and Ben gordon who everyone is ranting and raving about because he just had a great game has a career playoff shooting percentage of 40%.

I just think it was pointless to bring up Redd in a Celtics vs. Bulls game, especially when Redd has had an incredible series in the playoffs where as Gordon has had several subpar series.

[LUKE23]

I would much, much rather have the supporting the Bulls team around Gordon than I would the Bucks team around Redd. Hands down, any day of the week.

The only reason I agree is because Rose is the best player of the two teams. Besides that though, not really. I don't think either team has great supporting talent, no way you can say the Bulls supporting talent is so much better to make a case for Gordon over Redd in this scenario.

[paulpressey25]

PP was definitely all over this trade early on. Several people spoke about trading Redd for Salmons straight up last year.

It was pretty obvious after the first month of the season that we needed one true additional big-man to back up Bogut and/or play with Bogut. Since Chauncey was "win-now", I'll never understand why he didn't go all out to get Brad Miller since Sacramento was willing to trade him for cap relief. His contract only has one more year to go at $12mm.

[Newz]

I would much, much rather have the supporting the Bulls team around Gordon than I would the Bucks team around Redd. Hands down, any day of the week.

The only reason I agree is because Rose is the best player of the two teams. Besides that though, not really. I don't think either team has great supporting talent, no way you can say the Bulls supporting talent is so much better to make a case for Gordon over Redd in this scenario.

Derrick Rose alone makes his supporting cast (Actually Gordin is part of Rose's support cast, to be honest) infinitely better than what Redd has around him.

Instead of bringing in Ridnour off of the bench, they bring in Hinrich. Instead of bringing in Gadzuric/Elson/Allen off of the bench, they bring in Brad Miller.

It isn't even close.

[LUKE23]

Whatever man. They won 41 games with very minimal injuries compared to Milwaukee. You have nothing to back up your claim. Rose is the top player of the teams, but overall the talent is quite obviously close.

[europa]

PP was definitely all over this trade early on. Several people spoke about trading Redd for Salmons straight up last year.

It was pretty obvious after the first month of the season that we needed one true additional big-man to back up Bogut and/or play with Bogut. Since Chauncey was "win-now", I'll never understand why he didn't go all out to get Brad Miller since Sacramento was willing to trade him for cap relief. His contract only has one more year to go at $12mm.

Maybe the Kings didn't want to pay two SGs more than $10M a year.

[europa]

Instead of bringing in Ridnour off of the bench, they bring in Hinrich.

That really isn't a big advantage for the Bulls given how bad Hinrich has been the past two seasons.

[Newz]

Whatever man. They won 41 games with very minimal injuries compared to Milwaukee. You have nothing to back up your claim. Rose is the top player of the teams, but overall the talent is quite obviously close.

Ok... So if Redd was healthy the Bucks probably would have won more games than them too, Redd having a worse or in your opinion equal cast. So Redd > Gordon.

Derrick Rose just made history by dropping 36 points in his first playoff game... He also added on 11 assist and 4 boards. The guy is going to be one of the top 10 players in basketball soon enough and is already a great player. They have a very good 3-man big rotation where as the Bucks have to rely on guys like Dan Gadzuric and they have a great 3-guard rotation while the Bucks are bringing in guys like Ridnour they are bringing in Hinrich.

I have plenty to back up my claim.

Keep hating on Redd. He's overpaid and he certainly isn't a perfect player by any stretch... But at this point he has been a much better playoff performer than Ben Gordon and that is including Gordon's game tonight.

[LUKE23]

If their talent was great, they would have been more than .500. The Bucks probably would have won more games than them if healthy. Rose is the top player between the teams, overall the talent is close. That is the truth. You're talking like the Bulls were a 50 win team this year. Their fans hated the entire team outside of Rose for much of the season, go look at their damn forum.

Give it a rest.

[paulpressey25]

Maybe the Kings didn't want to pay two SGs more than $10M a year.

Three way trade. Raef's contract or Wally's to Sacramento.

[Newz]

If their talent was great, they would have been more than .500. The Bucks probably would have won more games than them if healthy. Rose is the top player between the teams, overall the talent is close. That is the truth. You're talking like the Bulls were a 50 win team this year. Their fans hated the entire team outside of Rose for much of the season, go look at their damn forum.

Give it a rest.

I'm not the one who brought up Michael Redd in the first place.

All I'm saying is Redd is a superior playoff performer at this point, regardless of what Gordon did tonight. If he keeps it up and somehow puts up better numbers than Redd did in 05-06, then I'll admit I was wrong...

People just try to find any reason to rip on Redd. Why even bring him up in a thread discussing the playoffs which the Bucks aren't even a part of while discussing a game that has NOTHING to do with Redd.

[midranger]

Maybe the Kings didn't want to pay two SGs more than $10M a year.

Three way trade. Raef's contract or Wally's to Sacramento.

And there it is.

[midranger]

If their talent was great, they would have been more than .500. The Bucks probably would have won more games than them if healthy. Rose is the top player between the teams, overall the talent is close. That is the truth. You're talking like the Bulls were a 50 win team this year. Their fans hated the entire team outside of Rose for much of the season, go look at their damn forum.

Give it a rest.

I'm not the one who brought up Michael Redd in the first place.

All I'm saying is Redd is a superior playoff performer at this point, regardless of what Gordon did tonight. If he keeps it up and somehow puts up better numbers than Redd did in 05-06, then I'll admit I was wrong...

People just try to find any reason to rip on Redd. Why even bring him up in a thread discussing the playoffs which the Bucks aren't even a part of while discussing a game that has NOTHING to do with Redd.

It is true that playoff threads have nothing to do with Mike Redd.

Like I said, I was just dumbfounded watching SGs come up clutch for their team.

[europa]

Maybe the Kings didn't want to pay two SGs more than $10M a year.

Three way trade. Raef's contract or Wally's to Sacramento.

OK, let's say Hammond did that. It doesn't really help the Bucks "win now" because they suffer a gigantic downgrade at SG. Miller provides depth behind Bogut but as we clearly saw no other player on the team was prepared to be the go-to scorer consistently. So the team doesn't get much better this season and it possibly gets worse.

Looking at the tax - you've reduced the length of a big contract by substituting Miller for Redd but you're only saving $2M. So Hammond still has tax issues to deal with next summer. This sounds exactly like something Hammond is being criticized for doing with the Mo trade. The number of years of the contract isn't taken into consideration, the fact Ridnour is expiring in 2009 isn't taken into consideration. What's being accentuated is the fact Ridnour is making just $2M less than Mo will make next season.

So essentially, you're advocating a similar type of trade that many have criticized Hammond for making.

[paulpressey25]

Like I said, I was just dumbfounded watching SGs come up clutch for their team.

Gordon is just another in a long-line of guys we've had threads on over the last three years. i.e. Is Joe Johnson/Kevin Martin/Ben Gordon/Jamaal Crawford/Stephen Jackson, etc, etc, etc. better than Redd.

And at the end of the day, in their own special way, each guy ends up being either better than Redd, or on a salary adjusted basis just as good. Gordon is no exception.

Given that Redd for portions of this year was used simply as a spot-up three shooter in the corner by Skiles, we could have had Ben Gordon doing the same for a lot less money.