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Trade Targets (postcript on yesterday-other teams)

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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#4101 » by M-C-G » Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:50 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:
M-C-G wrote:
Baddy Chuck wrote:At the expense of literally all ball movement and defense though?


Your response illustrates the over the top-ness I was referring to. Fair enough if you really think he can't ever pass and can't ever defend but I am watching a coaching staff that is getting blood from turnips.

Who is your guy that is reasonably obtainable (so I can play the baddy role and try to **** all over that player!)

I mean if we're going for that type of player I'd even prefer a guy like Greg Monroe. I really don't feel I'm going over the top on Kanter at all, his defense and awareness passing the ball is bottom of the barrel bad for an NBA big. Our coaching staff is getting a lot out of players but it isn't pulling stuff out of the woodwork that isn't there.


"literally all ball movement and defense"

If I knew what popular terms around here like hyperbole, strawman or narrative meant, I might accuse you of one but since I don't and I think such things are overused, I'll respond to your opinion instead.

Monroe might be a better fit, I just am not sure. I don't think defensively he gives you anymore than Kanter but he is probably the best passing center outside Gasols so that would look good in this offense. I'll admit I am not certain if he can provide a "physical presence" which I would like to add but if you don't think that is a missing piece because of a guy like ZaZa on the roster I can understand it.

I think Monroe is a solid rebounder (right?) so that would fill a much needed gap.

What do you think his contract ends up looking like? I think he will be the guy that NYK or LAL overpay as their "big free agent" acquisition after they strike out on the top tier guys.

I still think Koufos will be the best bargain in this FA class.
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#4102 » by M-C-G » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:05 am

Also, people on this board including myself love Top 5 picks, which Kanter is just three years removed from being a top 3 pick;

Scouting Report from 3.5 years ago. I am not denying there are flaws and concerns but I think there is a lot of potential still there.

-Kanter is an extremely rare physical specimen – the type of prospect NBA teams have a difficult time acquiring outside of the draft. He's a legit 6-11 in shoes with a solid 7-1 ½ wingspan and a 9-1 ½ standing reach. He possesses a terrific frame, carrying 259 pounds with just 5.9% body fat. While not a terribly explosive athlete, he's a mobile player with solid agility who can get up and down the floor fairly well and displays good body control around the basket.

-Kanter has soft hands and displays good touch on his shots, both around the basket and from the perimeter. He's a reliable finisher who can score in multiple ways in the paint -- with a soft turnaround jumper for example.

-The mechanics he shows on his jumper leave plenty of room for optimism. He has a quick release, a nice arch and a solid follow through. He's already shown the ability to consistently hit shots in the 18-20 foot range and should continue to improve this part of his game as his career progresses.

-When motivated and playing with a high level of energy, Kanter can really make his presence felt on the offensive end. He can move opponents around in the paint and will finish with powerful dunks on occasion. He has the ability to be a major factor on the offensive glass thanks to his size, strength and excellent hands.

-Kanter has been extremely productive at every level at which he has played, namely the U-16 European Championships in 2007 and 2008, the U-18 European Championship in 2009, and the Nike Hoop Summit in April 2010.

The Negative

-Kanter lacks significant in-game experience. He's seen fewer minutes of competitive basketball over the course of his career than possibly any lottery prospect we've ever evaluated. He played under 100 minutes for Fenerbache in 2008-09 and was deemed ineligible to play at Kentucky by the NCAA, forcing him to miss the entire 2010-11 season.



In 2009-10, he moved through a couple of different high schools before eventually settling at Stoneridge Prep, a school that has undergone quite a bit of turmoil, as a last resort. He played against weak competition there, which was clearly not ideal for his development.

While weighing his obvious potential, NBA teams must also factor in the effect the last two years has had on his growth as a player. They should also consider the fact that an extended lockout could keep Kanter away from competitive basketball for a third straight season.

-This lack of experience shows up first and foremost on the defensive end, where Kanter was incredibly ineffective in the film we watched. His fundamentals, instincts and positioning leave a lot to be desired. He can often be found standing straight up in the paint with his arms down, putting in little to no effort. He rarely boxes out his opponent and generally looks disinterested in anything that has to do with defense. He rarely bends his knees and often fails to get back in transition--doing very little to protect the paint when he does.

While it's not unheard of to see high school players competing in this nature, there's no question that man to man defense is an area that will be a major transition for him at the NBA level, something the coaching staff of the team that drafts him must be prepared for. It's tough to know how much of Kanter's lack of effort is a product of environment and how much is simply a personality trait. If it's personality based, that's more of a concern. Would a high motor player allow himself to be exposed in this manner?

To his credit, we did see Kanter exerting far more effort in settings such as the Nike Hoop Summit and the NBA Combine. But was he simply willing to go full throttle in these instances because his livelihood depended on it? It's difficult to say, which is why not having a full season of film to evaluate really makes his projection on this end of the more more guess-work than anything.

-Offensively, Kanter has been the biggest, strongest player on the floor at every level he's competed at thus far, making him similar to Kosta Koufos (U-18 2007) and Dejan Musli (U18 2009) when comparing productivity at the European championship junior level. That won't always be the case in the NBA. Kanter's footwork, decision making and overall basketball IQ don't appear to be better than average. These are areas of his game that he didn't have the chance to work on in a serious way over the last few years. He doesn't show much in the way of a left hand, either, and he struggles to pass out of double teams, preferring to force the issue or rely on his brute strength rather than making the smart pass.

These are correctable issues for a 19-year-old prospect, but whoever drafts Kanter must be aware of his shortcomings and must be ready to address them, since he won't be able to simply out-jump opponents in the NBA.

-According to NBA teams in his draft range, Kanter hasn't helped himself with the way he's choosing to educate them about his abilities. His preference appears to be to leave teams in the dark and force them to make a decision based on limited information, which has frustrated them quite a bit from what they're saying in private conversations.

Kanter has not been consistent in the way he's approached the draft process, sending mixed messages and changing strategies seemingly on a daily basis. He initially planned on not doing competitive workouts, refusing to leave his home base of Chicago to visit either the Utah Jazz (drafting 3rd) or Toronto Raptors (drafting 5th). As we've gotten closer to the draft, though, he's adapted his plans, first electing to participate fully in the NBA Combine, then traveling to meet suitors and work out competitively.

Kanter's draft range at the moment appears to be anywhere from 2 to 6. In a little over two weeks we'll know exactly where Kanter will start his NBA career, but we have very little idea right now where he'll go. What type of NBA player will he be? No one can really say with any certainty, due to the large gaps in his resume. Even the most respected talent evaluators shrug their shoulders and hedge their bets. In the meantime, teams will continue to try and put themselves in position to make the best decision for their franchise.
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#4103 » by Xanadu » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:07 am

No to Kanter. I would love to go after Quinn just not sure how much Orlando likes him. What do you guys think we would have to give up to get him.
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#4104 » by Giannis Parker » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:27 am

Little training center talk,

Suns also get the 2017 Clips 1st as well as a 2016 top 7 protected pick from the Kings (increasing to 10 then lotto protected).

Theory was the Bucks getting younger and using the Clips 2017 1st to clear nearly 13.5m in future salary cap, the Suns wanting more help at PF and C while getting a stretch player at either spot and clearing up their log jam at the guard spot all while getting a 1st round pick (in this case two), and the Kings making a win-now move after hiring Karl.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=nvsh6kp
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#4105 » by Ruzious » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:59 am

M-C-G wrote:Also, people on this board including myself love Top 5 picks, which Kanter is just three years removed from being a top 3 pick;

A little perspective - that draft was so good that the picks he was sandwiched between were Derrick Williams and Tristan Thompson. Jan Vesely (out of the NBA already) was picked 6th. Brandon Knight was picked 8th. :) Jimmer Freaking Fredette was a top 10 pick... by some team in Wisconsin. Actually, the best picks in that draft were after the top 10. Heck, 2 second rounders that draft were arguably better than picks 2 through 10. Isaiah Thomas was the last player picked. At this point, it doesn't matter who was picked where in the 2011 draft. You are what you are now.

Kanter is a 30 game rent a player, a black hole on offense, and a questionable (to be kind) defender.
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#4106 » by mlloyd10 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:07 am

Giannis Parker wrote:Little training center talk,

Suns also get the 2017 Clips 1st as well as a 2016 top 7 protected pick from the Kings (increasing to 10 then lotto protected).

Theory was the Bucks getting younger and using the Clips 2017 1st to clear nearly 13.5m in future salary cap, the Suns wanting more help at PF and C while getting a stretch player at either spot and clearing up their log jam at the guard spot all while getting a 1st round pick (in this case two), and the Kings making a win-now move after hiring Karl.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=nvsh6kp


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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#4107 » by raferfenix » Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:26 am

The Kings were supposedly willing to trade for Rondo without any indication he would stay...seems intuitive enough that they would for Dragic too.

They also just made a big splashy win now coaching hire. I'm sure they would love to acquire someone like Dragic in tandem.

It'd be the keeping him that would be the key then.
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#4108 » by Balls2TheWalls » Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:12 am

mlloyd10 wrote:
Giannis Parker wrote:Little training center talk,

Suns also get the 2017 Clips 1st as well as a 2016 top 7 protected pick from the Kings (increasing to 10 then lotto protected).

Theory was the Bucks getting younger and using the Clips 2017 1st to clear nearly 13.5m in future salary cap, the Suns wanting more help at PF and C while getting a stretch player at either spot and clearing up their log jam at the guard spot all while getting a 1st round pick (in this case two), and the Kings making a win-now move after hiring Karl.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=nvsh6kp


That can't be real


Yeah we make out like bandits in this trade. Clearing cap and dumping Ersan while still getting Stauskas back?
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#4109 » by TroyD92 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:13 am

I don't see why the Suns would do that trade.
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#4110 » by Turk Nowitzki » Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:30 am

I don't think that trade is realistic but I do think it's fair, if that makes sense.
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#4111 » by Turk Nowitzki » Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:32 am

TroyD92 wrote:I don't see why the Suns would do that trade.

They get two future 1sts out of Plumlee and Dragic, the latter of whom they know is leaving via FA anyway. I agree that they might take back one bad contract, but both Ersan and Thompson is a bit of a stretch.
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Re: Re: Trade Targets 

Post#4112 » by WeekapaugGroove » Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:57 am

Turk Nowitzki wrote:
TroyD92 wrote:I don't see why the Suns would do that trade.

They get two future 1sts out of Plumlee and Dragic, the latter of whom they know is leaving via FA anyway. I agree that they might take back one bad contract, but both Ersan and Thompson is a bit of a stretch.
yeah I think they might trade dragic for a pick but I agree there's no way they would want that long term salary coming back. The suns loved stauskas predraft and supposedly tried to trade up and get him. A much simpler version of that deal is stauskas and Williams expiring for Goran.

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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#4113 » by Turk Nowitzki » Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:08 am

Yeah, I don't see why the Bucks would need to be involved either. I was just going off of GP's hypothetical trade.
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#4114 » by Balls2TheWalls » Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:10 am

Turk Nowitzki wrote:Yeah, I don't see why the Bucks would need to be involved either. I was just going off of GP's hypothetical trade.


That being said. If we could throw Ersan and Zaza into a blender with our Clips pick and have it come out as Miles Plumlee, Nik Stauskas, and 6 million dollars... I think I do that instantly.
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#4115 » by TroyD92 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:26 am

It's a forgone conclusion that Dragic is gone?
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Kidd would have curb stomped him.

Maybe if his name was Denise instead of Dennis.


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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#4116 » by tyland » Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:18 am

Balls2TheWalls wrote:
Turk Nowitzki wrote:Yeah, I don't see why the Bucks would need to be involved either. I was just going off of GP's hypothetical trade.


That being said. If we could throw Ersan and Zaza into a blender with our Clips pick and have it come out as Miles Plumlee, Nik Stauskas, and 6 million dollars... I think I do that instantly.

Everyone does that deal - right? Meets the 'think about the future' objective and meets a need for a big.
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#4117 » by trwi7 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:48 am

Giannis Parker wrote:Little training center talk,

Suns also get the 2017 Clips 1st as well as a 2016 top 7 protected pick from the Kings (increasing to 10 then lotto protected).

Theory was the Bucks getting younger and using the Clips 2017 1st to clear nearly 13.5m in future salary cap, the Suns wanting more help at PF and C while getting a stretch player at either spot and clearing up their log jam at the guard spot all while getting a 1st round pick (in this case two), and the Kings making a win-now move after hiring Karl.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=nvsh6kp


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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#4118 » by Karsenmitsche » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:01 am

I think thats fair all around. Zaxa and Plumlee swap wouldnt make too much sense to me though. Get rid of that and its Ersan and a 1st for Stauskas. Very fair imo..
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#4119 » by Prince12 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:39 am

I'm happy to get rid of Ersan but not chucking a 1st on top for a guy who's done nothing so far even though I would like to give him a shot.
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Re: Trade Targets 

Post#4120 » by randy84 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:30 pm

Old article about Enes and Milwaukee. I forgot about the Turkish Connection.

http://www.bucksketball.com/2011/05/max ... es-kanter/

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