The Jabari Discussion Thread - Back 2/2

[midranger]

I can't read all this bickering but I clearly remember people talking about trading Jabari for all of; The Nets pick (ended up #1 overall), Crowder, and Bradley and there being a lot of disingenuous mocking after any decent Parker game/play to the effect of, "Good thing we don't have Crowder instead."

Suffice to say, that package would have been an absolute dream.

[M-C-G]

I know this has been going on so long so I know everyone is burned out on the argument over and over. But I don't really see CHL being rude to anyone throughout it whereas he gets constantly attacked. And he and GoS were attacked and mocked during Jabari's hot streak last year. Sure it's repetitive but so is everyone else on the other side of the argument so I don't see how he's any worse than anyone else, he's just in the minority so he stands out more.

Yep. They're trying to rewrite history now and say the only reason they've been such jerks is because of the way I made my case, but everyone knows that's not how it went down. I stuck to the same criticisms for years and articulated my case very clearly and without attacking other posters. Lots of people who didn't really have a horse in the race said it seemed like I was pretty reasonable about it and they respected my dissenting opinion, even if they didn't agree. The bottom line is that some people just couldn't stand to hear skepticism about their precious Jabari and they made it personal for years. Of course I started sniping back eventually, as anyone would, but I stuck to the merits of arguments and put up with constant mocking and taunts for years before I lost all respect for them. Majorities just love to silence dissenting opinions and it seems to be human nature, but they don't care about the merits of the argument and they especially don't care if they wrong; they just want to remain in the majority. They're often right, but sometimes the majority gets burdened with a spectacularly stupid idea and they just can't get it out of their head because they can't truly hear why they're wrong, they're too busy trying to shut down dissent. And even when they are proven wrong, they usually can't man up at all. Instead they rewrite the whole argument and say some b.s. like it's the way I talked to them that made them mad, as if they didn't spend years taunting and mocking. They said it's not about the arguments, it's about the tone, but everyone knows I didn't set that tone.

I wanted to trade him for Crowder and the BK pick and people are all over game threads any time Jabari plays well mocking me for wanting to trade him for Crowder, as if the pick is nothing.

Jabari plays well and everybody is mocking Jabari ti's after the game, but then they're quiet when Jabari plays poorly. Then they accuse me of doing the same thing in reverse, except it wasn't true that I stayed quiet after his good games at all, as some neutral observers pointed out. I just came on and said of course he's gonna have lots of great scoring games, that's part of the overall picture I've painted since before he was drafted. They just assumed that's how I would act because they projected their character on to me. Just like they project their character on to me when they say I wanted Jabari to fail so I would be proven right, when it was painfully obvious that I had really good reasons for not thinking he would be a valuable player and just wanted the Bucks to not slobber all over the knobs of overrated one-dimensional scorers anymore like they did through most of the Kohl era.

I compare him to all-stars like Fatione, Jamison, Abdur-Rahim, David Lee, Big Dog, Mashburn, Sczerbiak, etc and people call me a troll. That's the class he was in and the impact he had though, by any objective measure. In reality, all those guys will probably go down as better players than him now that he tore his ACL again.

I say over and over again I think he's going to get hurt, I don't want to build around this guy, trade him when you get a chance, there's something wrong with his proportions and biomechanics and center of gravity and it's gonna be a disaster, he had a stress fracture already in high school and he's been fat even when his metabolism should be peaking so he's going to have trouble staying lean... and people literally accuse me of wanting him to get hurt! God forbid they just acknowledge that I was on to something, lol. But they have to make it about my character and why they don't like me, as if they has anything to do with whether my criticisms were fair.

RS starts a Jabari ti thread to keep it out of game threads and a lot of people are on board. We have some great trade ideas, literally every single one of which would have been much better than keeping him, but 1/3 of the posts are just "this thread is a disgrace", "you guys are idiots", "anybody who wants to trade Jabari doesn't have a clue", "Jabari is a superstar", blah blah blah. And some people start a "trade Giannis" thread as a clear troll move and say "if there's a trade Jabari thread, why can't we have this thread?" It was meant to imply that a trade Jabari thread was just as much of a troll move as a trade Giannis thread... so how's that looking now?

We talk about fit, about 3-and-d guys and so forth, and people insult our intelligence. But Jabari tears his ACL twice, gets replaced with a good 3-and-d guy with very limited mobility both times (Dudley and a hobbled Khris) and the Bucks instantly get better. Yet people just can't get it out of their heads that Jabari is just not a good player at all, so they struggle to incorporate this and all the other evidence of Jabari's mediocrity into their worldview and end up lashing out at the people pointing out the discrepancies, as people with cognitive dissonance so often do.

I point out that Jabari has been fat on several occasions and also has a genetic heritage associated with obesity, a simple objective statistical fact, and people start calling me a racist left and right. That was when it really went south. That sh*t was pathetic.

They're still on it, making stuff up and rewriting history. Just a few pages ago, MCG claims I just threw every possible criticism under the sun at Jabari and hoped a few would stick. That could not be further from the truth. On the contrary, you'd be hard-pressed to ever find anyone who's been more specific and detailed in the exact things they don't like about a prospect, and more consistent in sticking to them. And almost everything I said has proven to be spot on.

It's okay to be a foolish homer, but it's not okay to be a total jerk about it. This place is getting more like the Raptors and Knicks board every year.

I said that because you did that. Problem is that you can't even see it anymore.

I mean the most recent being your concerns over Jabari being over 300 pounds which you seem to ignore saying. You were dead serious about that.

And if you want to talk about being a jerk, I have plenty of CHL comments we can bring back up.

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[DingleJerry]

As for this logic of paying Jabari because it's a lottery ticket and their only chance at another impact player, just be advised that that's the same logic homer Knicks fans used to justify trading for Derrick Rose. Except he at least had an expiring contract, although some Knicks fans wanted to extend him right away anyway. It's really hard to give some people here any more credit than you'd give them when you see some of the numbers justified here.

I definitely think there is a route to adding the #2 star besides getting lucky with Jabari or Thon. I mean, several #2 type stars were traded just this offseason. Combine that with getting lucky on any future picks, lucky with Thon or Jabari(if stays at a reasonable deal), Brogdon going from role player to more like a Billups level and you have a good chance. Have two things pan out and you're golden.

I know we're all conditioned to be pessimistic as Bucks fans, especially in terms of attracting top talent here, but we've never had a Giannis level player before. Two years from now he could be the best player in the world, someone has to be willing to come here and win with him.

I also think some routes could be jumpstarted by a Jabari trade if he won't agree to something reasonable before the deadline. I know we're selling low on him but I kind of view it like cutting your loss on a stock rather than sticking to the fallacy of sunk costs. Of course I have no idea what we'd get back, but there's a lot of things that could contribute to the future acquisition of the #2 star. Draft picks, attaching Henson so you have legit cap space soon, get back a Bledsoe type guy who you then use in a trade later, or you get a some other overpaid player back like a Deng who's contract is used in a future trade, lots of possibilities. If he won't be reasonable I'd rather cut our losses, take what we can get and move forward without that huge variable and set our sights on that next star within the next two offseasons. Unless for some reason literally no one is willing to give you anything for him, at which point I'd feel confident in being able to sign him back next offseason at a reasonable cost if no one wants him now.

Also, just want to say I don't blame Jabari at all if the experts on his team believe its in his best financial interest to not sign and then go to RFA, more power to him and good luck. It's a gamble on himself, the American way. Takes balls, I know I wouldn't have the stones to turn 40-60 mil in his situation.

[El Duderino]

I can't read all this bickering

Why would anyone not involved read it?

Just scanning over a few of the page after page of long assss posts, it's three or four posters in a swinging dick contest trying to prove to whoever that they were more right than the other guy about Parker.

Sports forums are weird in that spats like this between a couple of posters are relatively common to where basically strangers will spend all of this time arguing back and forth about something and in the end, to no real point for all of the time spent. Very strange to me.

[Gianstoppable]

I'd be cool if Jabari got a 4/70 deal anything over that could be a big overpay, of course you would need insurance and incentives. Can you do a 4/60 deal and put in 5 million each year in incentives for 80% games played or something like that?

[Gianstoppable]

I can't read all this bickering but I clearly remember people talking about trading Jabari for all of; The Nets pick (ended up #1 overall), Crowder, and Bradley and there being a lot of disingenuous mocking after any decent Parker game/play to the effect of, "Good thing we don't have Crowder instead."

Suffice to say, that package would have been an absolute dream.

Why would the Celtics do that trade? They got a healthy Irving for less than that..

[DingleJerry]

I can't read all this bickering but I clearly remember people talking about trading Jabari for all of; The Nets pick (ended up #1 overall), Crowder, and Bradley and there being a lot of disingenuous mocking after any decent Parker game/play to the effect of, "Good thing we don't have Crowder instead."

Suffice to say, that package would have been an absolute dream.

Why would the Celtics do that trade? They got a healthy Irving for less than that..

That's what made the argument so odd. That was a deal Boston would clearly reject, yet the vast majority viewed it as a horrible trade from our end and some even basically said anyone who would do it is a moron because Jabari was so amazing you couldn't even discuss a trade

[Max Green]

I can't read all this bickering but I clearly remember people talking about trading Jabari for all of; The Nets pick (ended up #1 overall), Crowder, and Bradley and there being a lot of disingenuous mocking after any decent Parker game/play to the effect of, "Good thing we don't have Crowder instead."

Suffice to say, that package would have been an absolute dream.

Why would the Celtics do that trade? They got a healthy Irving for less than that..

That's what made the argument so odd. That was a deal Boston would clearly reject, yet the vast majority viewed it as a horrible trade from our end and basically said anyone who would do it is a moron because Jabari was so amazing you couldn't even discuss a trade

You're still doing this? Seriously, give the strawmanning a rest. Didn't Prez just call you out for doing this **** 2 pages ago?

[worthlessBucks]

I love Jabari. Absolutely love him. And he's clueless defensively and his knee is an untenable risk. I will always root for him but I feel like the likelihood he'll help the Bucks win a championship all but sublimated when he went down vs. Miami. I think Horst actually understands this.

With you entirely, my same thoughts, but I ejected here.

[DingleJerry]

Why would the Celtics do that trade? They got a healthy Irving for less than that..

That's what made the argument so odd. That was a deal Boston would clearly reject, yet the vast majority viewed it as a horrible trade from our end and basically said anyone who would do it is a moron because Jabari was so amazing you couldn't even discuss a trade

You're still doing this? Seriously, give the strawmanning a rest. Didn't Prez just call you out for doing this **** 2 pages ago?

How am I strawmanning? That's exactly what happened, there was a clear consensus against such a trade and a large chunk of the thread was people saying that we shouldn't even be talking about it and shouldn't consider it. I guess I should have expanded that the divide between what the general consensus of the board valued him at and what another team likely valued at was very far apart from each other. That's the real point but yea attack me instead. I suppose the line about calling morons should have been taken out, yea it happened but no need to bring it up.

[Flap Jackson]

I find it amazing that he is moving around like this only 6 months after a second ACL surgery. Having had ACL surgery in 1998, I'm blown away by the improvements in rehab and recovery times. Adrian Peterson, Jordy Nelson, Jabari Parker ... can't believe the turn around times in this era of sports medicine.

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[Ayt]

That's what made the argument so odd. That was a deal Boston would clearly reject, yet the vast majority viewed it as a horrible trade from our end and basically said anyone who would do it is a moron because Jabari was so amazing you couldn't even discuss a trade

You're still doing this? Seriously, give the strawmanning a rest. Didn't Prez just call you out for doing this **** 2 pages ago?

How am I strawmanning? That's exactly what happened, there was a clear consensus against such a trade and a large chunk of the thread was people saying that we shouldn't even be talking about it and shouldn't consider it. I guess I should have expanded that the divide between what the general consensus of the board valued him at and what another team likely valued at was very far apart from each other. That's the real point but yea attack me instead. I suppose the line about calling morons should have been taken out, yea it happened but no need to bring it up.

What was your name before DingleJerry?

[DingleJerry]

You're still doing this? Seriously, give the strawmanning a rest. Didn't Prez just call you out for doing this **** 2 pages ago?

How am I strawmanning? That's exactly what happened, there was a clear consensus against such a trade and a large chunk of the thread was people saying that we shouldn't even be talking about it and shouldn't consider it. I guess I should have expanded that the divide between what the general consensus of the board valued him at and what another team likely valued at was very far apart from each other. That's the real point but yea attack me instead. I suppose the line about calling morons should have been taken out, yea it happened but no need to bring it up.

What was your name before DingleJerry?

BadgersBucks

[Prez]

That's what made the argument so odd. That was a deal Boston would clearly reject, yet the vast majority viewed it as a horrible trade from our end and basically said anyone who would do it is a moron because Jabari was so amazing you couldn't even discuss a trade

This isn't true at all. You're exaggerating hard, again.

[paulpressey25]

Hmm. Giannis just RT'ed that Parker SI recovery video.

[JforJeff]

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[paulpressey25]

The Deadline for a contract extension is 5:00pm Central time today.

So a little more than six-hours to go. Whatever happens will have significant ramifications for the franchise, so yeah, I'm curious how this ends up.

[DingleJerry]

With so little rumors or rumblings happening it sure seems like no extension is the most likely path as of now.

Good and bad. Good that it's better than handing out a massive deal in this situation. Bad in that I think most would've been ok with him signed now on a team friendly deal, therefore bad that wasn't able get done.

[NomNomNomParker]

The Deadline for a contract extension is 5:00pm Central time today.

So a little more than six-hours to go. Whatever happens will have significant ramifications for the franchise, so yeah, I'm curious how this ends up.

No reason to pay him right now unless its for a "discount". I would be livid if we maxed him.