OT: General OT Thread [NO POLITICS OR RELIGION]

[Kerb Hohl]

Yeah, we all watch football which obviously has some long-term effects.

I have watched a handful of the huge PPV boxing matches because it's kinda a fun event with friends. Beyond that, I've been roped into big UFC fight watches and such and I really don't understand the allure of it, but to each their own. I get that it's a sport but that is just too on-the-nose for me, who generally has no interest in just watching someone beat the **** out of someone else.

[HaroldinGMinor]

My line in the sand is when the object of the match is to damage your opponent's brain.

[humanrefutation]

I almost never pay to watch boxing or UFC PPVs. I'll watch it when it's on regular cable - like this Dadashev fight was - or I'll find streams online or watch it with friends elsewhere.

It's obviously a brutal sport, as is football. But the NFL actively denied that their sport was linked to any long-term affects, even as the evidence was there to the contrary. Their denials put their athletes in positions where they were not able to make informed judgments about the risks of playing football, or seek long-term health coverage, and that's what I find immoral about their actions. I also have unrelated issues with the NFL as well.

No one ever denied that truth when it came to boxing (and MMA). They might not have known about CTE, but it's a sport where the immediate risks are evident and it's most famous ambassador struggled with Parkinson's until his death. People who go into those sports are doing so with informed risk, and the best get huge financial payoffs when successful. There's little meaningful difference with people who go into other forms of high-risk employment. As long as they can make an informed judgment about that risk, it is their life.

To me, there's something odd about lambasting that when we're all probably wearing clothes and using electronics built in sweatshops in other parts of the world where the labor has no real payoff other than survival. It's easy to act morally superior when your own moral culpability is out-of-sight, out-of-mind.

[worthlessBucks]

Amazed that it doesn't happen more frequently across other sports really. RIP

[Siefer]

I mean it seems like this is the ultimate outcome of why people watch boxing. No one wants to watch a highly technical fight where no punches are landed. You watch to see one guy beat the hell (in this case life) out of another guy. If they die now or die later after years of decline a dementia, I’m not sure it makes you any less morally culpable.

It's funny the things people are comfortable of accusing others of having moral culpability for, when in reality, there is a 100% chance that there is something that they are doing in their own life - the things they buy, the entertainment they engage in, the way they vote, or the ways in which they interact with others - that knowingly contributes to the suffering and deaths of other people. And in many of those cases, the victims are not highly paid entertainers.

You want to question whether a sport should be legal or not? Sure, debate away. But don't throw the "moral culpability" stones if you live in a glass house.

Just a gentle note - a person being a hypocrite doesn't affect the quality of their claim. An argument stands apart from its source.

[midranger]

My line in the sand is when the object of the match is to damage your opponent's brain.

Bingo. The object of the sport is to literally “knock out” the opponent.

[midranger]

I mean it seems like this is the ultimate outcome of why people watch boxing. No one wants to watch a highly technical fight where no punches are landed. You watch to see one guy beat the hell (in this case life) out of another guy. If they die now or die later after years of decline a dementia, I’m not sure it makes you any less morally culpable.

It's funny the things people are comfortable of accusing others of having moral culpability for, when in reality, there is a 100% chance that there is something that they are doing in their own life - the things they buy, the entertainment they engage in, the way they vote, or the ways in which they interact with others - that knowingly contributes to the suffering and deaths of other people. And in many of those cases, the victims are not highly paid entertainers.

You want to question whether a sport should be legal or not? Sure, debate away. But don't throw the "moral culpability" stones if you live in a glass house.

I hope you were entertained by the homicide you paid to watch.

[midranger]

Next up, motorcycle jousting!!!

[humanrefutation]

I mean it seems like this is the ultimate outcome of why people watch boxing. No one wants to watch a highly technical fight where no punches are landed. You watch to see one guy beat the hell (in this case life) out of another guy. If they die now or die later after years of decline a dementia, I’m not sure it makes you any less morally culpable.

It's funny the things people are comfortable of accusing others of having moral culpability for, when in reality, there is a 100% chance that there is something that they are doing in their own life - the things they buy, the entertainment they engage in, the way they vote, or the ways in which they interact with others - that knowingly contributes to the suffering and deaths of other people. And in many of those cases, the victims are not highly paid entertainers.

You want to question whether a sport should be legal or not? Sure, debate away. But don't throw the "moral culpability" stones if you live in a glass house.

Just a gentle note - a person being a hypocrite doesn't affect the quality of their claim. An argument stands apart from its source.

This is fair, but I do think it effects their credibility in making that claim. Accusing others of moral culpability for the death of someone is a serious accusation that's best made by someone who is holding themselves to that same standard. Otherwise, it's easy to reject their accusation as disingenuous posturing.

[humanrefutation]

I mean it seems like this is the ultimate outcome of why people watch boxing. No one wants to watch a highly technical fight where no punches are landed. You watch to see one guy beat the hell (in this case life) out of another guy. If they die now or die later after years of decline a dementia, I’m not sure it makes you any less morally culpable.

It's funny the things people are comfortable of accusing others of having moral culpability for, when in reality, there is a 100% chance that there is something that they are doing in their own life - the things they buy, the entertainment they engage in, the way they vote, or the ways in which they interact with others - that knowingly contributes to the suffering and deaths of other people. And in many of those cases, the victims are not highly paid entertainers.

You want to question whether a sport should be legal or not? Sure, debate away. But don't throw the "moral culpability" stones if you live in a glass house.

I hope you were entertained by the homicide you paid to watch.

I didn't actually watch that fight - I only saw the ending and aftermath. Of course, the aftermath was horrifying in its own right. While it was a risk of the sport he chose to engage in, that doesn't make it any less of a tragedy that he died. Just like Dale Earnhardt's death was a tragedy in NASCAR or the deaths of athletes in other sports.

[MikeIsGood]

I don’t understand boxing or fighting of any kind. I’ve never really understood or gotten it. Just not my cup of tea I guess.

Seems like a pretty senseless loss. RIP.

[bizarro]

It's funny the things people are comfortable of accusing others of having moral culpability for, when in reality, there is a 100% chance that there is something that they are doing in their own life - the things they buy, the entertainment they engage in, the way they vote, or the ways in which they interact with others - that knowingly contributes to the suffering and deaths of other people. And in many of those cases, the victims are not highly paid entertainers.

You want to question whether a sport should be legal or not? Sure, debate away. But don't throw the "moral culpability" stones if you live in a glass house.

Just a gentle note - a person being a hypocrite doesn't affect the quality of their claim. An argument stands apart from its source.

This is fair, but I do think it effects their credibility in making that claim. Accusing others of moral culpability for the death of someone is a serious accusation that's best made by someone who is holding themselves to that same standard. Otherwise, it's easy to reject their accusation as disingenuous posturing.

A lot of assumptions going on in their Mids. Adults choose to box. Nobody forces a man or a woman to box professionally. And, I actually really really enjoy highly technical boxing matches. I am also fully aware of the stakes for these fighters and it, sometimes, results in death. It is a serious risk of the sport. Passing judgment on any of this just seems like a very very double edged sword filled with all sorts of moral high grounds. Fighting as a sport has been going on for millenia. Whether or not you view it as a sensible choice or as a worthy sport (which I would completely understand your stance if you don’t) doesn’t mean your judgment of my enjoyment in the spectacle is worth anything more than, well, the price of your opinion.

[bizarro]

It's funny the things people are comfortable of accusing others of having moral culpability for, when in reality, there is a 100% chance that there is something that they are doing in their own life - the things they buy, the entertainment they engage in, the way they vote, or the ways in which they interact with others - that knowingly contributes to the suffering and deaths of other people. And in many of those cases, the victims are not highly paid entertainers.

You want to question whether a sport should be legal or not? Sure, debate away. But don't throw the "moral culpability" stones if you live in a glass house.

I hope you were entertained by the homicide you paid to watch.

I didn't actually watch that fight - I only saw the ending and aftermath. Of course, the aftermath was horrifying in its own right. While it was a risk of the sport he chose to engage in, that doesn't make it any less of a tragedy that he died. Just like Dale Earnhardt's death was a tragedy in NASCAR or the deaths of athletes in other sports.

I watched the fight in entirety. He was fighting valiantly. And, really, until the 11th round he was completely in the fight. Was he ‘winning’: no. The volume he was facing was relentless and Matias was just so incredibly in shape and persistent in pursuit. But, Dadashev was landing counters. What happened was in the 6-8 rounds Matias began landing body blows to his right side. It opened up some heavy volume in that 11th. The last minute of that round was the unraveling. The crazy thing is: he wanted back in the ring! He was not going to call his fight. That was his manager who pleaded and then demanded and ultimately waived the fight. Such a tragedy. One of those punches lands a little bit differently, everything might be different. Ultimately, his bravery; courage; and will to keep fighting was his demise. My heart goes out to his wife and his family. She flew over from Russia on Tuesday. Just so sad.

[humanrefutation]

I hope you were entertained by the homicide you paid to watch.

I didn't actually watch that fight - I only saw the ending and aftermath. Of course, the aftermath was horrifying in its own right. While it was a risk of the sport he chose to engage in, that doesn't make it any less of a tragedy that he died. Just like Dale Earnhardt's death was a tragedy in NASCAR or the deaths of athletes in other sports.

I watched the fight in entirety. He was fighting valiantly. And, really, until the 11th round he was completely in the fight. Was he ‘winning’: no. The volume he was facing was relentless and Matias was just so incredibly in shape and persistent in pursuit. But, Dadashev was landing counters. What happened was in the 6-8 rounds Matias began landing body blows to his right side. It opened up some heavy volume in that 11th. The last minute of that round was the unraveling. The crazy thing is: he wanted back in the ring! He was not going to call his fight. That was his manager who pleaded and then demanded and ultimately waived the fight. Such a tragedy. One of those punches lands a little bit differently, everything might be different. Ultimately, his bravery; courage; and will to keep fighting was his demise. My heart goes out to his wife and his family. She flew over from Russia on Tuesday. Just so sad.

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[bizarro]

I didn't actually watch that fight - I only saw the ending and aftermath. Of course, the aftermath was horrifying in its own right. While it was a risk of the sport he chose to engage in, that doesn't make it any less of a tragedy that he died. Just like Dale Earnhardt's death was a tragedy in NASCAR or the deaths of athletes in other sports.

I watched the fight in entirety. He was fighting valiantly. And, really, until the 11th round he was completely in the fight. Was he ‘winning’: no. The volume he was facing was relentless and Matias was just so incredibly in shape and persistent in pursuit. But, Dadashev was landing counters. What happened was in the 6-8 rounds Matias began landing body blows to his right side. It opened up some heavy volume in that 11th. The last minute of that round was the unraveling. The crazy thing is: he wanted back in the ring! He was not going to call his fight. That was his manager who pleaded and then demanded and ultimately waived the fight. Such a tragedy. One of those punches lands a little bit differently, everything might be different. Ultimately, his bravery; courage; and will to keep fighting was his demise. My heart goes out to his wife and his family. She flew over from Russia on Tuesday. Just so sad.

Spoiler:

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The other piece that needs to be discussed here, and Kellerman touched on it today, is Dadashev was a classic human interest story. Fighting was his path OUT of Russia. He was fighting for his green card and to get his family stateside. This was his ticket. He had moved his training camp to the US in California. His plan was to keep winning and get his family to his new home. Sigh. It’s a heartbreaking end to his story. Just heartbreaking.

[midranger]

Fact is these guys wouldn’t be fighting unless if people paid to watch it. So, sorry to say, if you watched it you are indeed (in part) morally culpable. You are the sole reason they are fighting. You just gotta own it.

The goal of other sports is not to literally injure the opponent until he can no longer go on. Accidents happen. I’m sure someone has died playing badminton. It’s not a reasonable extension of the goal of the sport though.

Boxing is a great outlet for rich people to watch poor people beat each other until one is so injured that he can’t stand. That’s it.

[HaroldinGMinor]

I watched the fight in entirety. He was fighting valiantly. And, really, until the 11th round he was completely in the fight. Was he ‘winning’: no. The volume he was facing was relentless and Matias was just so incredibly in shape and persistent in pursuit. But, Dadashev was landing counters. What happened was in the 6-8 rounds Matias began landing body blows to his right side. It opened up some heavy volume in that 11th. The last minute of that round was the unraveling. The crazy thing is: he wanted back in the ring! He was not going to call his fight. That was his manager who pleaded and then demanded and ultimately waived the fight. Such a tragedy. One of those punches lands a little bit differently, everything might be different. Ultimately, his bravery; courage; and will to keep fighting was his demise. My heart goes out to his wife and his family. She flew over from Russia on Tuesday. Just so sad.

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

The other piece that needs to be discussed here, and Kellerman touched on it today, is Dadashev was a classic human interest story. Fighting was his path OUT of Russia. He was fighting for his green card and to get his family stateside. This was his ticket. He had moved his training camp to the US in California. His plan was to keep winning and get his family to his new home. Sigh. It’s a heartbreaking end to his story. Just heartbreaking.

That is essentially the plot of The Running Man.

[trwi7]

This is me 3 steps on a ladder.

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[humanrefutation]

This is me 3 steps on a ladder.

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Rex Chapman has become a Twitter celebrity.

[bizarro]

Fact is these guys wouldn’t be fighting unless if people paid to watch it. So, sorry to say, if you watched it you are indeed (in part) morally culpable. You are the sole reason they are fighting. You just gotta own it.

The goal of other sports is not to literally injure the opponent until he can no longer go on. Accidents happen. I’m sure someone has died playing badminton. It’s not a reasonable extension of the goal of the sport though.

Boxing is a great outlet for rich people to watch poor people beat each other until one is so injured that he can’t stand. That’s it.

Um, prettttttttttttttty sure Mayweather and McGregor are, you know, richer and more well-positioned financially than 99% of their viewers. I mean wtf do you think watching NCAA basketball is? Your comments are near comical at this point. And, my man, like I said this ‘moral culpability’ goes back millenia. Your opinions, again, well they’re just opinions. Keep hugging them close. I’ll take Foreman, Frazier, and Ali 7 days a week. And stay morally culpable to their greatness. But, you know, they boxed. And, gasp. People watched.

Edit: also, many many fighters fight because they fight -. You’ve clearly never known a golden gloves competitor. The good ones, just as in other sports, earn the opportunity to get to the place of potentially making money. You disagree with the nature of what constitutes this ‘sport’. But, man, you’re socioeconomic points are just so filled with holes.