06/19 ESPN & DX.com Speculation

[ReasonablySober]

There is no way I'd deal Bogut for Roy.

The Magloire comparisons are great. Until you realize that Bogut based on his last three months is a heck of a lot better player than Magloire was when we traded for him.

Think about the Bogut we saw at seasons end who could:

-Score 17-22ppg fairly consistently
-Rebound at 10-11rpg
-block 1.5 to 2 spg
-draw a charge per game
-muscle out big guys like Yao, Ben Wallace, etc just like Magloire did.
-Can actually handle and pass the ball unlike Magloire.

I think Bogut passed by Magloire in a big way by about March. He's either a jump shot or a 75% FT shooter away from being a 20/10 guy who can defend and pass.

What isn't about percentages that you don't get? If your starting center is posting below average rebounding rates and TS%, that's NOT a good thing when he's scoring that much. It means he's getting touches that others on the team should be seeing.

[ReasonablySober]

There is no way I'd deal Bogut for Roy.

Oh, and you're also completely off your rocker.

[paulpressey25]

If your starting center is posting below average rebounding rates and TS%, that's NOT a good thing when he's scoring that much. It means he's getting touches that others on the team should be seeing.

I think you're reading too much into those two stats. And ignoring how strong the guy finished. He's either a jump shot or a FT% increase away from massively increasing his TS%. Put a good rebounder next to him to block out (not Yi or CV) and his rebound rate will improve as well.

And those two stats also don't reflect at all how good he's become defensively. He's not an elite shotblocker, but he can get at it now. Add in the charges along with his strength to hold position, and this guy will be extremely valuable as a playoff type guy in a half court game against some of the elite bigs down low.

If you are going to look at TS% then note that Brandon Roy ranks 37th among shooting guards there. Roy is a wonderful player, but I'm not tossing Bogut out for him at this point.

[Licensed to Il]

To this point Bogut has been too inconsistant to realistically be considered a star or a difference maker... let alone a cornerstone player. But as stated many times (by me and by others), he has so many tools (very good strength, very good mobility, very good floor vision, very good basketball instincts) that it is easy to project what he could easily become. All the Aussie bastard needs is a consistant jumper, and improved free throw shooting, and you got a legit franchise player. He is not now, but he is so close. And its not like the guy isn't improving... he gets better every year. I love the baby hook he started to show recently, and there is no reason to believe that he isn't working on more stuff. Heck, many of the posters here from his neighborhood even check in with reports of his personal gym he is building.

The Roy trade question is a silly one, its not even on the table. But the reason why so many (myself included) don't want Bogut traded is because he was sold to us as the future star of this team, and he has made good progress these last few years. It would be an absolute shame to give up now, and bring in a guy like Mayo... who could be Larry Hughes just as easily as he could be Kobe. I don't want to go through all that (investing in another rookie as a savior) until we are 100% sure that Bogut is mediocre. And I don't think anyone can say that.

[ReasonablySober]

I would argue that with the lack of an even average rebounder next to Bogut inflated his rebounding numbers. Sort of like how people dismiss Lopez because he wasn't nabbing ten a night, while forgetting that he's playing on a top rebounding team and next to an equally athletic seven footer who's sole job is really to be the garbage guy.

If I'm the only guy on the team with the ability or desire to grab a rebound, I'm going to get more than if I had a solid glass man next to me.

I won't argue with you on the defensive issue. I'm very happy with what he's done on that end.

As for Roy, you're talking about a 6'6" guard that defends, passes and can score. He could run your offense if that's what you wanted. I honestly don't see much of a weakness in his game and he only just finished his second season in the NBA. With a gun to your head, you're telling me you're taking Bogut?

[midranger]

PP, so far this summer, you've turned down Sessions for the 4th overall pick and Bogut for 2nd year player and Western Conference All-Star Brandon Roy.

No offense, but I'm glad Hammond is in charge.

The players making up our horrible team must be pretty great.

[emunney]

Mardy Collins averaged 13 assists per game as a starter last season? I must've missed that.

Check out his month of April as a rookie.

I'm late to this party, but how do those Collins stats support your argument? Those are not good stats.

[ReasonablySober]

Mardy Collins averaged 13 assists per game as a starter last season? I must've missed that.

Check out his month of April as a rookie.

I'm late to this party, but how do those Collins stats support your argument? Those are not good stats.

His season average was 3.2/1.6/1.9.

What exactly isn't impressive, besides the 5.8 assists or 6.7 rebounds he averaged in 10 games that month?

[Nowak008]

Brandon Roy made the all star team over: Davis, Ginobli, Williams, Parker all in his second year. Yeah I would trade Bogut for him. The guy has top 10 in the league potential.

[midranger]

The best part about Roy is that his production helped his team win. Bogut's increased production correlated negatively with team success. By the end, when he was putting up these 22 and 12 type games, the Bucks couldn't win to save their lives.

[Buck You]

I think if the Bucks trade Bogut to draft Mayo then they REALLY like what they see from Mayo. So I wouldn't be overly disappointed with a trade like that.

Honestly, I think that those of you who think that Bogut either is or should be traded for Mayo should stop wasting those brain cycles. There's no way that any GM is going to trade an established, young center for a rookie SG. It just isn't going to happen. Cs are more valuable than SGs, and you're not going to trade a proven, young C for a SG whose top end is Brandon Roy.

Heck, I don't think that the Bucks would trade Bogut for Roy, and at least you know what you get with Roy.

I don't want to trade Bogut at all. But I was just saying that if the Bucks did trade Bogut to draft Mayo then they must really like what they see in him. I mean, that only makes sense doesn't it? I'm sure Hammond sees Bogut as the best piece on this team and it would take a superstar in the making for him to trade him for a draft pick. Got it hombre?

[emunney]

DB, are you being serious? He had 4 turnovers and shot under 40% from the field. Now I'm all tired from cracking The Case of the Unimpressive Stats.

[ReasonablySober]

DB, are you being serious? He had 4 turnovers and shot under 40% from the field. Now I'm all tired from cracking The Case of the Unimpressive Stats.

All I did was point out rebounds and assists as compared to his season averages, which were quite impressive.

[DH34Phan]

PP, so far this summer, you've turned down Sessions for the 4th overall pick and Bogut for 2nd year player and Western Conference All-Star Brandon Roy.

No offense, but I'm glad Hammond is in charge.

The players making up our horrible team must be pretty great.

This post is great.

Whoever wouldn't trade Bogut for Roy needs a mental evaluation.

I wanna see the post where PP turns down the 4th pick for Sessions.

[bango_the_buck]

How about this for a scenario? Memphis trades up to #2 for Beasley (giving up, say, #5 and Miller, and taking back Blount's contract). Minnesota drafts Mayo and Seattle takes Bayless. With Wade/Miller/Marion manning the 2/3/4 positions, I say Miami takes Westbrook, who seems to be a Riley type guy. It's hard to predict New York - I see them either reaching for Augustin here or taking Gallinari. The Clippers would then likely go Gordon/Augustin, dropping Love to us.

Do you all think a scenario like this (i.e. Love being available at #8) is feasible? And if so, do we keep Love or look to trade up for Mayo (since it seems as though Love is McHale's guy and he may be willing to trade back for a reasonable offer to get him)?

[trwi7]

I believe Hammond made a comment on Gary and Cliff I think that there are obviously some players that they would like to keep and that they would be harder to get than others but they were a team that didn't win many games and that nobody was untouchable. Based on that I could see a Bogut trade, even if I still think it's very unlikely.

[paul]

If Bogut is traded for anyone but an established superstar ala the Celtics last year this board will melt down, as will I......

As I've said many times if you were to trade him for a pick you would have to be absolutely 100% unwaveringly certain that the player you were taking is going to be a legitimate star, or you'd be a complete moron to do it. People get so wrapped up in undrafted players at this time of year it's ridiculous, two years ago Mayo was the next Jordan, six months ago he was an almost certain bust who'd go late first round, six weeks ago he might be top 10, now people want to trade a guy who's 24 and already a top ten center in the league and the second best center in the east and still improving for him. No thanks, I mean, no f******g way.

How would people react if in 2 years Mayo is a bust and Bogut is putting up 20/12/3/2.5 blocks? I mean, it's not like that's out of the realms of possibility, and the Bucks would quite literally not survive a mistake like that, things are shaky as they are. Those of us who were still fans of the Las Vegas Bucks would be lamenting another shocking decision by an organization famous for shocking decisions. Even if he never improves past his recent level, 16/10/3/2 centers who play good defense and are solid citizens don't exactly grow on trees. On the upside, Minny would have the best frontline in the league, by a fair way.

[trwi7]

What isn't about percentages that you don't get? If your starting center is posting below average rebounding rates and TS%, that's NOT a good thing when he's scoring that much. It means he's getting touches that others on the team should be seeing.

This I definitely agree with and it really isn't mentioned often enough. Yes, Bogut posted better numbers last year but again he wasn't exactly efficient doing it.

34 centers averaged 20 minutes or more last year. Bogut ranks 16th of 34 in FG% (slightly above average), 24th of 34 in TS% (well below average) and 18th of 34 in rebounding rate (slightly below average.)

Again, he is as close to untouchable as this team has and probably its best player which just goes to show how terrible this team is and why most want a complete rebuild.

[tedbrogen]

Is it at all possible that Bogut hasn't had a chance to completely develop his offensive game because he has been playing with two guards who are chuckers and don't have any interest in feeding the ball into the post?

If they can't trade up for Mayo (which I assume this argument is about) without giving up Bogut, then don't trade up for Mayo.

I think they could land the #3 pick by offering CV, #8, and #13 (which could be had from Portland for Mo Williams).

[trwi7]

Is it at all possible that Bogut hasn't had a chance to completely develop his offensive game because he has been playing with two guards who are chuckers and don't have any interest in feeding the ball into the post?

Maybe he just had an underdeveloped, overrated post game coming from Utah. Of course, we have heard from some posters on here that Mo puts Bogut in a position to be blocked so I bet it is true that our guards have hindered his offensive development.