2015-16 UW Badger Basketball Discussion Thread

[HaroldinGMinor]

The fact that Dukan has gone AWOL in conference play is concerning for their Final Four prospects, especially if Tre doesn't come back 100%. Should run through the BIG though.

They are fine with or without Duje. Whatever offense he brings is pretty much off set by his terrible defense. The bench is only concerning if there's another injury or foul trouble and UW rarely if ever gets in foul trouble.

[Bernman]

That was stressful. This team could use a better killer instinct and of course bench (2 pts tonight I think, Dukan where have you gone?). There is a tendency to miss bunnies, just sit on big leads, and then tighten up with to's, missed ft's, reckless fouls, etc. down the stretch of games to make games much closer than they should. Just keep playing the way that got you there, I say.

The bigger tendency is that this is really an average team defensively.

13 pts allowed in the 1st half tonight, 21 vs. NW, 23 vs. Mich, 17 vs. Iowa, 23 vs. Rutgers, 20 vs. Cal. Tighten with leads in the 2nd half and it effects all phases.

[HaroldinGMinor]

That was stressful. This team could use a better killer instinct and of course bench (2 pts tonight I think, Dukan where have you gone?). There is a tendency to miss bunnies, just sit on big leads, and then tighten up with to's, missed ft's, reckless fouls, etc. down the stretch of games to make games much closer than they should. Just keep playing the way that got you there, I say.

The bigger tendency is that this is really an average team defensively.

13 pts allowed in the 1st half tonight, 21 vs. NW, 23 vs. Mich, 17 vs. Iowa, 23 vs. Rutgers, 20 vs. Cal. Tighten with leads in the 2nd half and it effects all phases.

42 in second half to one of the worst offenses in the B1G. Game was still very much in doubt until under a minute remained.

[BUCKnation]

Our team demeanor is so interesting. It's so relaxed, sometimes almost too relaxed.

We haven't had a competitive game in weeks. Wouldn't be surprised to see a "wake up call" lose/close win before the tournament games start.

[buckboy]

This thread is hilarious. Guys make it sound like we're 12-12 not 22-2.

[El Duderino]

I'll take any sort of win @Nebraska. Tough environment. Hopefully Dekker is good to go as the season goes by.

The Badgers have a great record at home since Bo took over, but the difference in consistent crowd noise between Nebraska and the Kohl Center most games was so stark. Granted, they were an underdog facing a top 5 team, but for a few years now when watching Badgers home games, large sections of the crowd besides the student section spends most of the game sitting on their hands or just giving random golf claps.

As for all of the complaints by so many others in this thread, i agree with you in being reasonably happy with any win in that gym where they had won five in a row and Nebraska is a solid defensive team, which explains some of the offensive struggles UW had.

[Kerb Hohl]

This thread is hilarious. Guys make it sound like we're 12-12 not 22-2.

And said 22-2 team doesn't have a "killer instinct" because they only win by 15 most games according to some.

It's too bad they aren't more like Iowa. Get up by 16 at halftime, jack up shots early in the shot clock to keep playing like it got them there and lose the lead by the middle of the 2nd half.

Who does Bo Ryan think he is by playing it smart and slowing it down to win in the 2nd half, Mike McCarthy?

[SpursNBucks]

Nebraska game:

Concerns: dealing with the full court press - shaky. rim defense was almost non-existent for last part of game- you don't want to foul, but was just too easy. Nigel Hayes game has dropped recently. Would like to see a little more from Gasser on offense = he seems a little slowed by something on the defensive end. He has a rep as a top defender, but he has dragged a little lately.

Positives: Dekker looks a lot better as of late. Kaminski is on par for player of the year. Koenig is going to be all-big 10 1st team next year- although he makes some dumb mistakes at times has a ton of talent.

Overall: They aren't hitting it on all cylinders right now, but still winning. To beat some of the elites (Kentucky, Duke, Virginia)come tourney time they will have to come together and gel more than they have. Expectations have never been this high, and you get greedy. This may be the best chance they have ever had at a title - may not get another one soon.

[Kerb Hohl]

I think they are going to work on press offense for about 30 hours this week after that debacle. They crushed Iowa's press, granted, it wasn't as intense.

They'll have to be (and should be) prepared for Minnesota's press 2 times in the last 2-3 weeks of the season. I think Illanoy does a bit too, if I'm not mistaken?

[HaroldinGMinor]

They're 22 - 2 because the B1G is terrible this year. I'm not saying they're a bad team - far, far from it. But the defense is a concern to me. Hopefully they can outscore teams in the tourney but I don't see that happening 6 times in a row.

At the end of the day though, I'm not judging success this season on how they do in the tourney. If they win the B1G I'm happy. It is a joy to watch them when they are clicking on offense.

[xTitan]

They're 22 - 2 because the B1G is terrible this year. I'm not saying they're a bad team - far, far from it. But the defense is a concern to me. Hopefully they can outscore teams in the tourney but I don't see that happening 6 times in a row.

They are a far better offensive team than they have ever been, but you are correct, not a great defensive team...hopefully Jackson will make it back to add some much needed depth, but I also think this team is just bored. The Big Ten is terrible this year, but they played some good teams in the pre-season....this seems to be the first Badger team I can remember that is very focused on winning a national championship, and like KY, just bored with the conference season.

[Kerb Hohl]

That is correct that they do not have a great defense. I do think they can turn it up if they want a little bit. Part of the reason that they do not have a great defense is they play matador/position defense so that they do not get into foul trouble.

Jackson coming back will also help.

I'd love a natty title or another Final Four bid, but I will exhale once the first weekend is over. They are clearly one of the 5 best teams in the nation but now we might get to see one of those teams that completely blows it in the round of 32 against a team that is on fire and get the "see, I knew they were overrated all year" national treatment. I guess that is not completely unlike the 2006-2007 team, but I think this one is way better.

[Bernman]

This thread is hilarious. Guys make it sound like we're 12-12 not 22-2.

And said 22-2 team doesn't have a "killer instinct" because they only win by 15 most games according to some.

It's too bad they aren't more like Iowa. Get up by 16 at halftime, jack up shots early in the shot clock to keep playing like it got them there and lose the lead by the middle of the 2nd half.

Who does Bo Ryan think he is by playing it smart and slowing it down to win in the 2nd half, Mike McCarthy?

A critique of lack of killer instinct making a bunch of games much closer than they need to be, being in position to potentially lose games you shouldn't (and dropping 1 ultimately), has little to do with record or overall satisfaction. When it comes down to it, it only takes once, against better teams on average, when you get to single-elimination which the NCAA tourney is. So it's certainly worth discussing standing on team's necks when you have a chance. Just like it was worth discussing getting hurt on the o-boards by some opposing big teams last season. I believe you tried to resist then too, but what ultimately was probably the biggest reason for getting ousted from the tourney? 2nd chance points. I'm not even making a prediction that they're going to fade in games in the tourney, but it's a tendency they'd be better served addressing before they get there, and right now it's a little annoyance.

I'm dead serious, you need of therapy dude. Be way off base (and aggressively I might add) on the Packers - then immediately double down, triple down, quadruple down even on other issues and in other sports with that same poster out of some sort of e-revenge. You're the opposite of the voice of reason you're trying to be.

[buckboy]

Yeah, this team is significantly better than the 07 team IMO.

I'm not worried about the first weekend too much. This offense will score on anyone, particularly on a neutral floor. When Jackson comes back Bo will never have to trot out a lineup with all of Dukan, Brown & Showalter on the floor at the same time. That's when it gets ugly.

[buckboy]

This thread is hilarious. Guys make it sound like we're 12-12 not 22-2.

And said 22-2 team doesn't have a "killer instinct" because they only win by 15 most games according to some.

It's too bad they aren't more like Iowa. Get up by 16 at halftime, jack up shots early in the shot clock to keep playing like it got them there and lose the lead by the middle of the 2nd half.

Who does Bo Ryan think he is by playing it smart and slowing it down to win in the 2nd half, Mike McCarthy?

A critique of lack of killer instinct making a bunch of games much closer than they need to be, being in position to potentially lose games you shouldn't (and dropping 1 ultimately), has little to do with record or overall satisfaction. When it comes down to it, it only takes once, against better teams on average, when you get to single-elimination which the NCAA tourney is. So it's certainly worth discussing standing on team's necks when you have a chance. Just like it was worth discussing getting hurt on the o-boards by some opposing big teams last season. I believe you tried to resist then too, but what ultimately was probably the biggest reason for getting ousted from the tourney? 2nd chance points. I'm not even making a prediction that they're going to fade in games in the tourney, but it's a tendency they'd be better served addressing before they get there, and right now it's a little annoyance.

I'm dead serious, you need of therapy dude. Be way off base on the Packers - then immediately double down, triple down, quadruple down even on other issues and in other sports with that same poster out of some sort of e-revenge. You're the opposite of the voice of reason you're trying to be.

You said this a lot last year and you continue to. Wisconsin had a couple of bad games D-rebounding last year, but still were 15th in the country in DREB%. Anecdotal evidence is not very convincing.

[Bernman]

You said this a lot last year and you continue to. Wisconsin had a couple of bad games D-rebounding last year, but still were 15th in the country in DREB%. Anecdotal evidence is not very convincing.

I'm not really saying it this year at all. We're a better rebounding team, regardless of the stats. Kaminsky and Hayes are tougher, Sam and Duje are bigger, and now Brown helps a little in that dept. I don't remember games where teams were getting 2nd chance after 2nd chance.

The overall numbers which included games against Penn St. and the like last year weren't overly relevant. What was relevant was individual games here and there, which I provided stats for not just anecdotal evidence, where we struggled mightily on the d boards and fellow big teams, and like I said that's ultimately the primary reason we lost to Kentucky, was it not? Harrison made the long 3, but we would have had a cushion before that otherwise.

[RayRayJones]

So does Bo leave Bronson in the starting lineup when Trae returns? I could see Trae coming off the bench for a game or two to get his wheels back under him, but I'm curious to see if Bo leaves Koenig in as the starter.

[HaroldinGMinor]

Individual games here and there aren't relevant to determining how good a team is at a particular skill. It may matter in the tournament where you are one and done. Hence you lose to a team like Kentucky who was elite at grabbing offensive boards whereas UW was "just" really, really good at preventing opponents at getting offensive boards (UW is elite in that regard this year).

[Kerb Hohl]

This thread is hilarious. Guys make it sound like we're 12-12 not 22-2.

And said 22-2 team doesn't have a "killer instinct" because they only win by 15 most games according to some.

It's too bad they aren't more like Iowa. Get up by 16 at halftime, jack up shots early in the shot clock to keep playing like it got them there and lose the lead by the middle of the 2nd half.

Who does Bo Ryan think he is by playing it smart and slowing it down to win in the 2nd half, Mike McCarthy?

A critique of lack of killer instinct making a bunch of games much closer than they need to be, being in position to potentially lose games you shouldn't (and dropping 1 ultimately), has little to do with record or overall satisfaction. When it comes down to it, it only takes once, against better teams on average, when you get to single-elimination which the NCAA tourney is. So it's certainly worth discussing standing on team's necks when you have a chance. Just like it was worth discussing getting hurt on the o-boards by some opposing big teams last season. I believe you tried to resist then too, but what ultimately was probably the biggest reason for getting ousted from the tourney? 2nd chance points. I'm not even making a prediction that they're going to fade in games in the tourney, but it's a tendency they'd be better served addressing before they get there, and right now it's a little annoyance.

I'm dead serious, you need of therapy dude. Be way off base (and aggressively I might add) on the Packers - then immediately double down, triple down, quadruple down even on other issues and in other sports with that same poster out of some sort of e-revenge. You're the opposite of the voice of reason you're trying to be.

It's not e-revenge. It's that you always seem to be the one with the hot take on "missing key" for the team with extreme confidence, like "when Starks starts the Packers are 15-2 so that's all that matters" or "burn that [red]shirt of a lightly recruited scholarship player in the stead of a lightly recruited walk-on, because I know it better than Bo Ryan" (by the way, they are 7-0 after not making that decision with Jackson nearly back) or "I personally knew that Shaka would go to Marquette because he cares about helping kids from Milwaukee" or "they should fire Bo Ryan if they lose early in the 2014 tournament."

That sounds vitriolic and that somehow I remember a lot of these takes, but it is due to the confidence they are brought on with. Your takes are normally great on here. I like hearing about Stave, other UW bball stuff, etc. it is just hard not to be the voice of reason when there is a very odd take with extreme confidence with no recourse for being wrong most of the time.

In this case, you know, the team could be getting tired in some of these games given that they are only 6 deep right now. Last night, in the one game sample, I'd say that Nebraska came back because Petteway stopped clashing with his coach and didn't sabotage the team (as much) in the 2nd half, not because the Badgers didn't have killer instinct.

I will somewhat agree with you that they cannot put some lesser teams away, but I think that's an issue that most teams in the nation face due to fatigue and other teams forcing the issue (shooting lots of 3s that happen to go in in the 2nd half, going to the basket to force the issue on the Badgers).

I actually think many of Bo's teams have notoriously dropped leads thinking back. Why? Because he plays it pretty smart. In the crappier days pre-2014 when they didn't have a great offense, they'd be ahead 45-37 with 6 minutes left and they'd take up all 35 seconds and jack up a Trevon Hughes contested shot the rest of the way. That sounds bad, but I'd bet they held on to win 90+% of those games. I can't tell you how many times I watch fast-paced teams get a 10 point lead with 5 minutes to go and then **** it away by jacking up quick shots.

This year's team (and last year's) might have just a little bit less of a green light once it hits the 10 minute mark of the 2nd half. More importantly, especially as of late, they only go about 6 deep in good players, so either Dukan, Showy, and Brown cough the lead up a little bit, or they are just completely fatigued (last night) and let the other team back in. That's just what we'll have to live with.

Obviously, it matters not if we give each other the virtual handshake on these issues, I really mean no offense, it's that about the only stuff I post on these boards ends up being in response to stuff like that.

[buckboy]

You said this a lot last year and you continue to. Wisconsin had a couple of bad games D-rebounding last year, but still were 15th in the country in DREB%. Anecdotal evidence is not very convincing.

I'm not really saying it this year at all. We're a better rebounding team, regardless of the stats. Kaminsky and Hayes are tougher, Sam and Duje are bigger, and now Brown helps a little in that dept. I don't remember games where teams were getting 2nd chance after 2nd chance.

The overall numbers which included games against Penn St. and the like last year weren't overly relevant. What was relevant was individual games here and there, which I provided stats for not just anecdotal evidence, where we struggled mightily on the d boards and fellow big teams, and like I said that's ultimately the primary reason we lost to Kentucky, was it not? Harrison made the long 3, but we would have had a cushion before that otherwise.

First, let me say that I know you're not bringing that up regarding this season.

Second, the bolded is inaccurate. There was no real correlation between dreb% and winning. 2 of Wisconsin's 3 worst dreb games were a blowout win vs Illinois in which they gave up 25/55 (!) orebs, and the home win vs Iowa when they gave up 16/40. They also gave up 14/44 in a 14 point win at Purdue and 11/33 in a win vs. Indiana.

They lost 8 games last year. In those games their dreb% was: .645/.880/.435/.889/.728/.889/.678/.656.
That averages out to .739
Their season average was .726 (15th nationally)

My only point in bringing this up is that there was this perception last year that our Oreb was horrible and was costing us games, which wasn't the case. We lost most of those games because our defense sucked. In the case of the Minnesota game, it was both.

Which relates to this thread in that perception is not reality. Wisconsin has not blown a lead of any significance all season and hasn't blown a 2nd half lead at all. Close calls are irrelevant. And if anyone considers last night a close call, they're goofy.

Any road win in the Big 10 is a good win. I mean, Hell, Wisconsin lost at Rutgers.