3rd Annual Fire Kidd Thread - Volume 2 (Horst Interview pg 14)

[Magic Giannison]

In unreal how our owners cannot see what pretty much everyone are saying, Jesus.

[M-C-G]

In unreal how our owners cannot see what pretty much everyone are saying, Jesus.

Personally, I think they see it way more than people think. I think the larger issue is there is not consensus around him. Those guys have been at a lot of games where we have looked like absolute dog **** and I don't think it sits well with them. Whenever we have our really **** games, I always try to see which owner was there

I have no doubts he was about 1 game from getting **** canned last season, but what I can't explain is why the owners seemingly bought back into him.

[emunney]

Read on Twitter

This is a bit scary.

Jesus, that is depressing.

Not exactly accurate considering the Bucks' record since Bledsoe joined the team.

I think the Big 3 thing is pretty misleading considering that was the LARRY SANDERS! year. He was easily our best player.

[emunney]

My reaction to Kidd's comments is that "coaching doesn't matter" isn't a great pitch for remaining coach.

[emunney]

Can't be bad at your job if there is no job.

[PG Graveyard]

My reaction to Kidd's comments is that "coaching doesn't matter" isn't a great pitch for remaining coach.

Yeah some accountability on his end wouldn’t be the worst thing. Although when I hear him say these things I can’t help but think he is either trying to get fired or putting it on Horst that he doesn’t have enough talent and wants a panic trade for another vet. Potentially there is a trade out there they can make and he wants done but Horst is still saying no. Either way I can’t recall a coach ever making these type of comments.

[Ron Swanson]

If he's trying to save his job, then he's not trying very hard. Which is actually really weird...

[M-C-G]

My reaction to Kidd's comments is that "coaching doesn't matter" isn't a great pitch for remaining coach.

Yeah some accountability on his end wouldn’t be the worst thing. Although when I hear him say these things I can’t help but think he is either trying to get fired or putting it on Horst that he doesn’t have enough talent and wants a panic trade for another vet. Potentially there is a trade out there they can make and he wants done but Horst is still saying no. Either way I can’t recall a coach ever making these type of comments.

I think if they said they would give him all his money and he could walk away to go pursue "more time with his family" or a coaching job at Cal, I think he'd walk away in a heartbeat.

Just a matter of time until that is an option.

[M-C-G]

If he's trying to save his job, then he's not trying very hard. Which is actually really weird...

Yep, his justification is that a;
1. not young guys are young, and expectations (including his own) were too high
2. they won't listen to the coaching staff

Neither bodes very well

[Wooderson]

I have no doubts he was about 1 game from getting **** canned last season, but what I can't explain is why the owners seemingly bought back into him.

Mental gymnastics is a lot easier when there's $12 million on the line.

[Magic Giannison]

Read on Twitter

This is what Kidd said before the season started in September.... LMAO

[Ron Swanson]

I kinda joked about it earlier in the year, but I'm actually starting to wonder if he doesn't even want to be coaching right now. Some guys don't realize how taxing it is both physically and mentally until several years into their head coaching careers. He's had hip surgery, he rarely ever gets up off the bench during games. His post game pressers are just getting pathetic at this point. He's not even trying to come up with legitimate excuses anymore. I'm honestly wondering if his motivation is all there.

[sidney lanier]

Maybe it would be fair to question why is everyone standing around, what are they suppose to be doing and is what they are suppose to be doing the right thing for our offense? Those are much more important questions and I believe the most objective answers will take you to the players don't know what they are suppose to do, they are afraid to do it, they are instructed to do it or they suffer from some type of basketball off ball paralysis disorder (BOBPD).

At the end of the day, I want a coach that puts his players in the best position to succeed. If I had to apply Kidds ability to the Scoville Scale, I'd rate him somewhere between a Bell Pepper and a Pepperoncini. For comparison sake, your average coach is hovering around a Thai Pepper and your Brad Stevens of the world are approaching Ghost Pepper heat.

When I see Middleton declining open threes and players lost in space, as I did last night, I have to admit I have the same questions you have. We're not seeing decisive, committed play. We're not seeing guys playing with confidence, much less exuberance.

Kidd's position -- we can tell them, but they have to learn for themselves by doing -- may be a copout, or it may be the sad reality. I do like your hot pepper analogy, but I don't think the capsaicin level of the coach makes a jalapeno of a lot of difference. Roll John Wooden, Phog Allen, Jack Ramsay, and Phil Jackson into one guy and put him on the Bucks bench and you're still going to get this kind of play, I think.

Last night in the game thread somebody blamed Kidd for not coaching Henson out of some goofy flailing reaching moves he was making on defense. When I pointed out sarcastically that he should coach Henson to outrebound Whiteside while he was at it, I was told that wasn't fair to point out. But that's the point -- these players are who they are, with the basketball IQs and skills they have. It's up to them to figure out how to play together and play smarter in what is the most fluid and improvisatory of major sports. Only if we see evidence of the coach preventing their opportunity to develop would I call for a change. Letting them find themselves, however painful the process, is the right way to go about it IMO.

[M-C-G]

Maybe it would be fair to question why is everyone standing around, what are they suppose to be doing and is what they are suppose to be doing the right thing for our offense? Those are much more important questions and I believe the most objective answers will take you to the players don't know what they are suppose to do, they are afraid to do it, they are instructed to do it or they suffer from some type of basketball off ball paralysis disorder (BOBPD).

At the end of the day, I want a coach that puts his players in the best position to succeed. If I had to apply Kidds ability to the Scoville Scale, I'd rate him somewhere between a Bell Pepper and a Pepperoncini. For comparison sake, your average coach is hovering around a Thai Pepper and your Brad Stevens of the world are approaching Ghost Pepper heat.

When I see Middleton declining open threes and players lost in space, as I did last night, I have to admit I have the same questions you have. We're not seeing decisive, committed play. We're not seeing guys playing with confidence, much less exuberance.

Kidd's position -- we can tell them, but they have to learn for themselves by doing -- may be a copout, or it may be the sad reality. I do like your hot pepper analogy, but I don't think the capsaicin level of the coach makes a jalapeno of a lot of difference. Roll John Wooden, Phog Allen, Jack Ramsay, and Phil Jackson into one guy and put him on the Bucks bench and you're still going to get this kind of play, I think.

Last night in the game thread somebody blamed Kidd for not coaching Henson out of some goofy flailing reaching moves he was making on defense. When I pointed out sarcastically that he should coach Henson to outrebound Whiteside while he was at it, I was told that wasn't fair to point out. But that's the point -- these players are who they are, with the basketball IQs and skills they have. It's up to them to figure out how to play together and play smarter in what is the most fluid and improvisatory of major sports. Only if we see evidence of the coach preventing their opportunity to develop would I call for a change. Letting them find themselves, however painful the process, is the right way to go about it IMO.

I understand everything you are saying, but at the core, we have a system that gives way too much free reign to the players on the court. We have a coach that will allow the time to go scoreless for 6 minutes without getting off his elderly raised toilet seat support. We have systems that after 3-4 years are either too complex or our team lacks the IQ to successfully run these systems. We are at a point now where being stubborn (or patient) isn't leading to better results, it's actually the opposite, we are allowing horrible habits to set in and instead of growth our team appears to be continuing to regress, based on record anyway.

To me that is the coaches job to address that. If he isn't interested in addressing that, then he shouldn't be coach. Doing nothing, or lowering expectations because the staff can't get it through to the players is absolute loser talk. My old boss used to talk about shadow of a leader which you may be familiar with. For those that aren't aware, a staff (or team in this case) will naturally reflect the style of operation of their leader. So if your manager exists in an environment where everything is last minute and a fire drill, that will be reflected in everyone on the team eventually (something that I lived through recently). If your manager is a dedicated planner and forces realistic timelines and prioritization, that will be reflected in the team as well. If your manager isn't willing to be accountable however and pushes blame, or is stubborn and not willing to change things up, that is what is going to be reflected in the team.

I'd argue Middleton is already has become a personification of Kidd's style. He's often bitching at other players, doesn't appear to have much interest in doing what is best for the team and I think I have yet to seen him be held accountable by anyone. Kidd did a great job in initially turning around the culture, but I think he has checked out and I think bad habits, bad chemistry and bad basketball are becoming way too much of how we operate on a day to day basis. That is on Kidd.

[sidney lanier]

To me that is the coaches job to address that. If he isn't interested in addressing that, then he shouldn't be coach. Doing nothing, or lowering expectations because the staff can't get it through to the players is absolute loser talk. My old boss used to talk about shadow of a leader which you may be familiar with. For those that aren't aware, a staff (or team in this case) will naturally reflect the style of operation of their leader. So if your manager exists in an environment where everything is last minute and a fire drill, that will be reflected in everyone on the team eventually (something that I lived through recently). If your manager is a dedicated planner and forces realistic timelines and prioritization, that will be reflected in the team as well. If your manager isn't willing to be accountable however and pushes blame, or is stubborn and not willing to change things up, that is what is going to be reflected in the team.

Tao Te Ching, Chapter 17

The best leaders are those the people hardly know exist.
The next best is a leader who is loved and praised.
Next comes the one who is feared.
The worst one is the leader that is despised.

If you don’t trust the people,
they will become untrustworthy.

The best leaders value their words, and use them sparingly.
When he has accomplished his task,
the people say, “Amazing:
we did it, all by ourselves!”

[M-C-G]

To me that is the coaches job to address that. If he isn't interested in addressing that, then he shouldn't be coach. Doing nothing, or lowering expectations because the staff can't get it through to the players is absolute loser talk. My old boss used to talk about shadow of a leader which you may be familiar with. For those that aren't aware, a staff (or team in this case) will naturally reflect the style of operation of their leader. So if your manager exists in an environment where everything is last minute and a fire drill, that will be reflected in everyone on the team eventually (something that I lived through recently). If your manager is a dedicated planner and forces realistic timelines and prioritization, that will be reflected in the team as well. If your manager isn't willing to be accountable however and pushes blame, or is stubborn and not willing to change things up, that is what is going to be reflected in the team.

Tao Te Ching, Chapter 17

The best leaders are those the people hardly know exist.
The next best is a leader who is loved and praised.
Next comes the one who is feared.
The worst one is the leader that is despised.

If you don’t trust the people,
they will become untrustworthy.

The best leaders value their words, and use them sparingly.
When he has accomplished his task,
the people say, “Amazing:
we did it, all by ourselves!”

I think you are trying to convince me that last paragraph describes Kidd, but I think that last line in the first paragraph is much more applicable and I would replace the word "despised" with "incompetent" or some variation of that.

[Finn]

In unreal how our owners cannot see what pretty much everyone are saying, Jesus.

Personally, I think they see it way more than people think. I think the larger issue is there is not consensus around him. Those guys have been at a lot of games where we have looked like absolute dog **** and I don't think it sits well with them. Whenever we have our really **** games, I always try to see which owner was there

I have no doubts he was about 1 game from getting **** canned last season, but what I can't explain is why the owners seemingly bought back into him.

Curious if there's been evidence of this or it's just your opinion? I sure hope it doesn't sit well with them.

[Ron Swanson]

They've shown Edens a ton sitting court side at recent home games. He's been on hand to witness some of the worst losses. Haven't seen Lasry much.

[Max Green]

Read on Twitter

This is what Kidd said before the season started in September.... LMAO

I hope you guys on twitter are hammering the Bucks with that quote.

[raferfenix]