ImageImage

Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Livingston Back on a 1 Year Deal - Page 76

Moderators: MickeyDavis, paulpressey25

User avatar
Ron Swanson
RealGM
Posts: 25,951
And1: 29,894
Joined: May 15, 2013

Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Rollins 3/$12 million, Turner Signs 

Post#481 » by Ron Swanson » Wed Jul 9, 2025 6:06 pm

Bernman wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:His contract is literally the same length and a whopping $7.5 million AAV more than Kuzma. If you believe he has another gear in him in a better situation, who cares? He's already pretty arguably a better player, and 5-years younger. Definitely a better fit.


That's no small difference & it's 9.3 the 2nd yr. We just got both KPJ & Trent/Rollins for these amounts. 2 rotation players. This is a major consideration for any team in the apron era, let alone the Bucks w/ 22.5 per in dead cap.

If we made that move now, would we be prepared to re-flip Barrett at the deadline? Even if we were, Kuzma is the $ saver for teams w/ his descending contract, in conjunction w/ us being able to take back 25% more salary. This is where, w/ the picks, you could get the #2 option we need.

Some want to even burn the '31 1st for this. Now THAT would be reckless. All our eggs would be in the KPJ basket to be the #2 option.


I mean, yeah? If things go south this season then the organization should be open to moving every single player on this team sans Giannis at the deadline. Turner, Bobby, AJ, all of them. I think that should be pretty obvious.
User avatar
Badgerlander
RealGM
Posts: 27,064
And1: 7,488
Joined: Jun 29, 2007
     

Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Rollins 3/$12 million, Turner Signs 

Post#482 » by Badgerlander » Wed Jul 9, 2025 6:07 pm

SirChurros wrote:
Badgerlander wrote:Barrett sucks

Sucks is quite the hyperbole.

If he sucks, a lot of guys stuck in **** situations for **** orgs suck.


More hyperbole than “he would be incredible”?

He isn’t a shooter, he’s a driver that isn’t particularly good at finishing or passing. The Knicks passed him off because they didn’t want to pay him and Toronto took him because he is canadian. The Raps overpaid him and now they are trying to dump him. He isn’t particularly good at anything offensively or defensively. He’s a nothing burger, if you give him usage he will give you ppgz but not efficiently
Shoot, Move, and Communicate...

Spoiler:

I'm just here for my own amusement,"don't take offense at my innuendo..."


Countless waze, we pass the daze...

A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
fansinceforever
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,231
And1: 2,661
Joined: Oct 26, 2010
   

Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Rollins 3/$12 million, Turner Signs 

Post#483 » by fansinceforever » Wed Jul 9, 2025 6:07 pm

There's literally zero chance we get RJ Barrett for Kuzma and AJJ.
User avatar
engelmartin
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,821
And1: 2,394
Joined: Jun 03, 2013
         

Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Rollins 3/$12 million, Turner Signs 

Post#484 » by engelmartin » Wed Jul 9, 2025 6:08 pm

I think I’d hate Kuzma a lot less if he was playing the 4. Can Giannis play the 3?
KnicksGod wrote:Middleton probably the most underrated player in NBA History
User avatar
Ron Swanson
RealGM
Posts: 25,951
And1: 29,894
Joined: May 15, 2013

Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Rollins 3/$12 million, Turner Signs 

Post#485 » by Ron Swanson » Wed Jul 9, 2025 6:09 pm

Badgerlander wrote:
SirChurros wrote:
Badgerlander wrote:Barrett sucks

Sucks is quite the hyperbole.

If he sucks, a lot of guys stuck in **** situations for **** orgs suck.


More hyperbole than “he would be incredible”?

He isn’t a shooter, he’s a driver that isn’t particularly good at finishing or passing. The Knicks passed him off because they didn’t want to pay him and Toronto took him because he is canadian. The Raps overpaid him and now they are trying to dump him. He isn’t particularly good at anything offensively or defensively. He’s a nothing burger, if you give him usage he will give you ppgz but not efficiently


The Knicks paid him that extension.
DingleJerry
RealGM
Posts: 15,286
And1: 10,937
Joined: Jul 09, 2015
       

Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Rollins 3/$12 million, Turner Signs 

Post#486 » by DingleJerry » Wed Jul 9, 2025 6:14 pm

engelmartin wrote:I think I’d hate Kuzma a lot less if he was playing the 4. Can Giannis play the 3?


Its immaterial. It's not like 1975 with people in fixed roles based on position. Its all mostly positionless at this point and revolves around your skills, the "at the 3" comes more about just being your 3rd biggest/slowest player and in today's NBA how good of a shooter you are. If a lineup is Giannis/Kuz plus a big, you're just too slow for modern nba. If Kuz is out there with Giannis and another big (even if its an ok shooting big like Turner) then you don't have enough shooting in today's nba.
Resident Lillard truther since 2015.
DingleJerry
RealGM
Posts: 15,286
And1: 10,937
Joined: Jul 09, 2015
       

Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Rollins 3/$12 million, Turner Signs 

Post#487 » by DingleJerry » Wed Jul 9, 2025 6:16 pm

emunney wrote:Wonder if they value Quickley more or less than Barrett.


I know I would value and want Quickley more, even with the overpaid contract. IMO he fits what we need more with the ballhandling, and I think he is considered good at D. Kuz would just add to their wing 3/4 glut in Tor though and they also need the PG type more, so you'd think a 3rd team would be needed to make something like that work
Resident Lillard truther since 2015.
User avatar
Badgerlander
RealGM
Posts: 27,064
And1: 7,488
Joined: Jun 29, 2007
     

Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Rollins 3/$12 million, Turner Signs 

Post#488 » by Badgerlander » Wed Jul 9, 2025 6:16 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:
Badgerlander wrote:
SirChurros wrote:Sucks is quite the hyperbole.

If he sucks, a lot of guys stuck in **** situations for **** orgs suck.


More hyperbole than “he would be incredible”?

He isn’t a shooter, he’s a driver that isn’t particularly good at finishing or passing. The Knicks passed him off because they didn’t want to pay him and Toronto took him because he is canadian. The Raps overpaid him and now they are trying to dump him. He isn’t particularly good at anything offensively or defensively. He’s a nothing burger, if you give him usage he will give you ppgz but not efficiently


The Knicks paid him that extension.


My bad.

Still he is 50th percentile pnr ball handler and 43rd percentile in iso, and he’s not a shooter so meh
Shoot, Move, and Communicate...

Spoiler:

I'm just here for my own amusement,"don't take offense at my innuendo..."


Countless waze, we pass the daze...

A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.
User avatar
MartyConlonOnTheRun
RealGM
Posts: 27,761
And1: 13,525
Joined: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Section 212 - Raising havoc in Squad 6

Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Rollins 3/$12 million, Turner Signs 

Post#489 » by MartyConlonOnTheRun » Wed Jul 9, 2025 6:18 pm

Group C in Emirates Cup. No Pacers. Book your flights to Vegas, boys!*

*Have a feeling they are a little embarrassed after last year that they won't prioritize it
User avatar
Matches Malone
RealGM
Posts: 37,000
And1: 27,226
Joined: Nov 23, 2005
     

Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Rollins 3/$12 million, Turner Signs 

Post#490 » by Matches Malone » Wed Jul 9, 2025 6:22 pm

Read on Twitter
Gery Woelfel wrote:Got a time big boy?
yb90
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,606
And1: 730
Joined: May 21, 2014

Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Rollins 3/$12 million, Turner Signs 

Post#491 » by yb90 » Wed Jul 9, 2025 6:27 pm

fansinceforever wrote:There's literally zero chance we get RJ Barrett for Kuzma and AJJ.

How many people thought John Collins and Norman Powell have the same value?

Role players like Barrett and Kuzma have similar value but you always have to factor in team age and team fit into the equation.

Toronto is trying to make room for Ochai and Gradey at the two and do not need Barrett's ball handling with Quickly, Barnes, and Ingram there. Barrett's value is likely not 1st round pick worthy but it is swap worthy, and is realistically one or two 2nd rd picks worthy. I think the money from Kuzma deals is a fair value but finding a 3rd team that sees value in Kuzma would be smart too. Many people mention the Kings but I think Charlotte could be another landing spot.
User avatar
raferfenix
RealGM
Posts: 24,236
And1: 4,551
Joined: Apr 05, 2003

Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Rollins 3/$12 million, Turner Signs 

Post#492 » by raferfenix » Wed Jul 9, 2025 6:32 pm

Raptors have a skyrocketing payroll and just canned Ujiri.

Bucks were linked to Quickley before he was owed $130M over 4 years.

I liked him as a compliment to Jrue at the time but I haven’t followed closely enough to know whether he’s a good defender or true PG vs undersized SG.

Barrett is similarly paid a lot for a middling team who also cashed out Ingram, Barnes and Poetl.

Not sure if he moves the needle but seems like he has better size on the wing and isn’t owned as much for as long as Quickley if we were choosing btw them.
User avatar
emunney
RealGM
Posts: 63,085
And1: 41,569
Joined: Feb 22, 2005
Location: where takes go to be pampered

Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Rollins 3/$12 million, Turner Signs 

Post#493 » by emunney » Wed Jul 9, 2025 6:41 pm

Anybody know if the 2nd round exception applies to players from previous drafts? Like, as a wild example, if we were to trade a future 2nd for Yam Madar, could we give him a 4 year deal?
Here are more legal notices regarding the Posts
old skool
General Manager
Posts: 8,009
And1: 3,762
Joined: Jul 07, 2005
Location: Chi

Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Rollins 3/$12 million, Turner Signs 

Post#494 » by old skool » Wed Jul 9, 2025 6:45 pm

Bernman wrote:
old skool wrote:
Bernman wrote:
That's not true. If he was a lower 1st, and his coach was stupid to not play him more even though he was their best net rating guy on the team outside their superstar, fans of all teams wouldn't view him a bust.

Heck, Battier posted 8/4/1 his 3rd yr, after being picked 6th, and he wasn't viewed as a bust. Just a winning low-usage 3&d guy, similar to how most our fans rightly view Green.
Good catch on Battier, but his contribution made sense in that low scoring era. Battier's 8.5 ppg in his age 25 season made more sense playing on a team averaging 96.7 ppg.

Green averaging 7.4 ppg, with low assist and rebound numbers is a lot less impressive on a Bucks team averaging 115.5 ppg.

I like A.J. Green. I root for him and I appreciate his valuable contributions. But I view him with tempered enthusiasm because he is primarily a great 3-point shooter who struggles to create for himself or others and whose productivity and efficiency declines as his minutes played increases and his defensive role expands. Green had a great series against the Pacers, but that was a small 5 game sample size. I don't see him ever being more than a solid 3-point option off the bench.


If he played w/ top-level creators who start, like Giannis, wouldn't that logically make them more effective, as shown by their team best +15 net rating together? That would indicate he's a solid 3&d option as a starter. It's a matter of doing it finally, like in game 5.


A lot of stats, like points scored in Game 5 or best 2-man combo, are snapshot perspectives into the team as a whole. They have value, but less value than an overall assessment. I'm not sure what overall conclusions can be drawn from a Game 5 where Green scores 19, Trent Jr scores 30, or a RS game where Connaughton puts up 43/10/5.

Will Green ever be more than a Steve Kerr equivalent? Can he blossom into a #3 scorer with solid defense? That would be great. But his counting stats history would suggest such a jump is unlikely. Last season per 36 minutes among Bucks who played a minimum of 500 minutes Green was 10th in ppg, 12th in rpg & 11 in apg. In those key areas, lots of Bucks players were more productive offensively over an entire season.

Green deserves more playing time, but his minutes jump last season was accompanied by a reduction in per 36 minutes stats. The biggest Bucks roster problem, imo, is the lack of a go-to scorer. For all his flaws, Lillard could handle that role. That is not Giannis' strength. Maybe KPJ??? Green? Probably not. Probably just a solid 3&D off the bench, ala Steve Kerr. Thus my tempered enthusiasm.
ShootingtheJ
RealGM
Posts: 11,688
And1: 7,324
Joined: Jun 20, 2010

Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Rollins 3/$12 million, Turner Signs 

Post#495 » by ShootingtheJ » Wed Jul 9, 2025 6:49 pm

Prez wrote:I mean if it's Kuzma and crap for Barrett, sure, but I doubt Toronto does that. Giving up anything of value like the '31 1st or Green would piss me off.


Toronto has long been interested in Monk, Kings looking to move him, and the Kings have coveted Kuzma for years.
Daver
Head Coach
Posts: 7,112
And1: 2,712
Joined: Feb 23, 2019
       

Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Rollins 3/$12 million, Turner Signs 

Post#496 » by Daver » Wed Jul 9, 2025 6:51 pm

fansinceforever wrote:There's literally zero chance we get RJ Barrett for Kuzma and AJJ.



True but add that 1st its a done deal.
neiLz
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,650
And1: 1,772
Joined: Oct 04, 2011
Location: Riverwest
     

Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Rollins 3/$12 million, Turner Signs 

Post#497 » by neiLz » Wed Jul 9, 2025 6:59 pm

My only concern if we keep this backcourt like this is late game situations and ball pressure. We saw it vs indy where multiple guys who got the ball in crunch time, crapped their pants. The coaching staff needs to hammer late game situations if they won't let giannis get the rock in crunch time. I'd rather lose with giannis missing FTs than having players forget how to play under a minute.
User avatar
Ron Swanson
RealGM
Posts: 25,951
And1: 29,894
Joined: May 15, 2013

Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Rollins 3/$12 million, Turner Signs 

Post#498 » by Ron Swanson » Wed Jul 9, 2025 7:00 pm

On one hand we have people treating Barrett like he's just a more expensive Kuzma. On the other hand we have people swearing it would take basically what the Nuggets gave up to acquire Cam Johnson. I mean, if this offseason has taught us anything, maybe it's:

Image
User avatar
El Pooch Grande
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,550
And1: 940
Joined: Mar 12, 2010
Location: Green Bay, WI (Titletown, USA)
     

Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Rollins 3/$12 million, Turner Signs 

Post#499 » by El Pooch Grande » Wed Jul 9, 2025 7:16 pm

Regardless it sure would be nice if we don't wait until September to finish finalizing the roster...this is like watching paint dry waiting for Bucks news!
Image

"We are the Champions, my friends"
ReddRum
Veteran
Posts: 2,825
And1: 521
Joined: Jan 03, 2009
Location: Waiting for a superstar to awaken the city of Milwaukee

Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Rollins 3/$12 million, Turner Signs 

Post#500 » by ReddRum » Wed Jul 9, 2025 7:21 pm

"The Bucks have explored sign-and-trade scenarios to obtain Jonathan Kuminga. The Warriors show little interest in Kyle Kuzma, so it would take attaching their 2031 1st plus a prospect to gain any significant traction. In the meantime, Kuminga’s market appears in a standstill."

What kind of prospect is Dunleavy Jr. looking for b/c if he wants our 2031 1st AND AJ Green he must be smoking rocks!!
#DrainTheSwamp

Return to Milwaukee Bucks