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Middleton/Johnson to Wash for Kuzma/Baldwin

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Re: Middleton/Johnson to Wash for Kuzma/Baldwin 

Post#501 » by Balls2TheWalls » Wed Feb 5, 2025 6:04 pm

Value of this trade lies completely in what we can do with aggregated salary and the 2031 first after the trade happened. It was clear Connaughton might actually be on a mini-Beal level of unmovable deal. This trade on its own is pretty bad, but Middleton was unreliable as far as in game impact and availability. We have to get people who rebound and play defense.
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Re: Middleton/Johnson to Wash for Kuzma/Baldwin 

Post#502 » by TroyD92 » Wed Feb 5, 2025 6:04 pm

DanoMac wrote:
TroyD92 wrote:Imagine two years ago trading Middleton for Kuz lmao. This franchise is cooked


Two years ago Middleton was an asset


Horst sure knows how to manage assets doesn’t he
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Kidd would have curb stomped him.

Maybe if his name was Denise instead of Dennis.


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Re: Middleton/Johnson to Wash for Kuzma/Baldwin 

Post#503 » by pifhluk23 » Wed Feb 5, 2025 6:05 pm

Horst trying to get on Nicos level
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Re: Middleton/Johnson to Wash for Kuzma/Baldwin 

Post#504 » by machu46 » Wed Feb 5, 2025 6:05 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
soxperry wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:Giannis just posted and deleted this. What does it mean!

Image


Those could be blazers, bulls or wizards colors, no?


Maybe the Heat for Jimmy? Why would Giannis do this now?! lmao


Wouldn't you do like a fire emoji if it was something related to the Heat though? I really have no idea what a red and white circle could possibly mean. Entirely possible Giannis is just messing with people.
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Re: Middleton/Johnson to Wash for Kuzma/Baldwin 

Post#505 » by Wonka » Wed Feb 5, 2025 6:05 pm

I am just confused regarding AJ and even picking him in the first place. We left win-low players on the table, drafted him and lied to the fan base by stating that he was a pick for down the road, only to trade him for garbage.
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Re: Middleton/Johnson to Wash for Kuzma/Baldwin 

Post#506 » by machu46 » Wed Feb 5, 2025 6:05 pm

Read on Twitter
trwi7 wrote:**** me deep, Giannis. ****. Me. Deep.
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Re: Middleton/Johnson to Wash for Kuzma/Baldwin 

Post#507 » by Ron Swanson » Wed Feb 5, 2025 6:06 pm

pifhluk23 wrote:Horst trying to get on Nicos level


Ok settle down.
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Re: Middleton/Johnson to Wash for Kuzma/Baldwin 

Post#508 » by msiris » Wed Feb 5, 2025 6:07 pm

Packbuckman wrote:
jakecronus8 wrote:
Packbuckman wrote:That’s **** bull and this trade is worse than we traded Ray Allen


Might be good to log off for awhile. What a silly statement

Really Kuzma sucks as a player nobody but us are trading for him and we gave up our 1st rd pick this yr besides Middleton who is a player even after getting both ankles surgery on. Payton at least use to be a great player something Kuzma never will be.
We get you don't like the trade but Allen was one of my favorite Buck and he was better and still was in his prime than Mids who is at the end of his career.
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Re: Middleton/Johnson to Wash for Kuzma/Baldwin 

Post#509 » by humanrefutation » Wed Feb 5, 2025 6:07 pm

Zach Harper trying to talk me off a ledge:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6115603/2025/02/05/kyle-kuzma-bucks-khris-middleton-wizards-nba-trade-deadline?source=user-shared-article

Spoiler:
Bucks receive Kyle Kuzma, Patrick Baldwin Jr. and second-round picks

I’ve often been on the side of “Kuzma is underrated.” While he’s been a fun punchline on the internet for his fashion and self-confidence, Kuzma became a really good role player, very quickly for the Los Angeles Lakers, who he helped toward a title in 2020. Then, he got moved to the Wizards in the Russell Westbrook trade, and he just kind of toiled there while still playing mostly good basketball on a horrendous team. I’ve been banging the drum of “Kuzma could really help a contender” for a couple years now. And then, the 2024-25 season happened.

This season, Kuzma has not been the guy many of us have been defending. He has shot horribly, right down to being a 60 percent free-throw shooter out of nowhere. His production is down across the board, but more importantly, he’s seemed to stop paying attention on defense. He was never good enough to fix a bad defense, but he would at least get his portion of the job done. He’s seemed largely disinterested in really doing most things he’s supposed to as the 8-41 Wizards have greatly improved their youth movement by tanking and developing the young players on the roster.

Even recently, Kuzma had enough and said he was done trying to fit in. He was going to demand the ball more and not do what the team was trying to do. Maybe that was a ploy to get traded. If so, it worked. Congratulations! If not, he probably figured it was time to worry about his own numbers if he was going to be on the worst team in the league. What Kuzma can potentially bring to the Bucks is what they’ve been missing without a consistent third option on the floor, and his impact could even go beyond just scoring.

Kuzma won’t replace the playmaking Middleton provided when the latter was healthy, but Kuzma can really score. He can get out in transition, he’s a great option cutting toward the basket, he’s tall and athletic for the three and he can knock down a jumper. You almost have to throw out his numbers from the past couple seasons and give him a clean slate to see if a real basketball environment will give his production a massive boost — or at least boost his efficiency.

There have been a couple seasons of Kuzma hitting 36 percent from 3-point range, which is about league average. The rest of the time, he’s been in the 33-34 percent range. I’d throw out the 28 percent he’s shooting this season. If Kuzma can stretch the floor at a league-average clip and be a threat when attacking the basket, he’s a great complement to Giannis Antetokounmpo and Damian Lillard.

The key for Kuzma will come from the defensive end of the floor. We have seen him be a very good defender in the past. We have also seen him abandon that end of the floor recently. Kuzma has to dedicate himself to defense to make his impact felt and to gain the trust of Antetokounmpo and company. If he plays the way he did for the Lakers, this is a brilliant pickup. If he’s been stuck in the malaise too long, it’s going to be a rough gamble for Milwaukee.

Kuzma is signed through the 2026-27 season at a declining annual salary, so, financially, this is a very good pickup for the Bucks — as long as Kuzma ups his game.

Grade: B

Wizards receive Khris Middleton, AJ Johnson and a first-round pick swap

As are pretty much any potentially positive conversations about the Wizards, this deal is all about the future. Middleton has a player option next season for $34 million. Whether or not he picks it up, he’s likely not long for this Wizards roster. Middleton could be flipped this summer if he picks up the option, or at the next trade deadline. But his body has simply failed him after years of hard-nosed play. He’s a great veteran voice to have for the young guys in Washington, but that doesn’t mean he’s there to be Yoda for everybody in the long term.

This deal is probably more about the potential pick swap for the Wizards and what Johnson can become. Let’s start with the pick swap, and I’ll turn it over to our Bucks writer, Eric Nehm, to give details about the pick swap headed out of Milwaukee in this deal.

So, if the Blazers and the Bucks are both worse than the Wizards in 2028, then the Wizards will get a jump of some sort in the draft. Otherwise, this might not have much of an impact at all on the trade here. The Wizards probably should have fought for a better pick swap scenario or an outright first-rounder if they could, but this is still better than nothing.

As for Johnson, he’s a bit of a mystery. He was once ranked highly in his high school class, and, instead of going to Texas for a year in college, he decided to sign in the National Basketball League in Australia for a season. He barely played and didn’t do much there, then was the 23rd pick in this past draft by the Bucks. He’s had a little bit of success and showed promise in the G League, but he fits the development plan and timeline of the Wizards. If he can turn into a rotation guard for them, that’s a nice pickup for the future. The Wizards already have Bilal Coulibaly, Alex Sarr, Kyshawn George and Bub Carrington heavy in their rotation. Johnson may not get time right away, but he should soon.

Their grade is low now, but it could be much higher depending on the pick swap and what the young guard can turn into. Also, it depends on whether or not they can get anything for Middleton at some point.

Grade: C+As for Johnson, he’s a bit of a mystery. He was once ranked highly in his high school class, and, instead of going to Texas for a year in college, he decided to sign in the National Basketball League in Australia for a season. He barely played and didn’t do much there, then was the 23rd pick in this past draft by the Bucks. He’s had a little bit of success and showed promise in the G League, but he fits the development plan and timeline of the Wizards. If he can turn into a rotation guard for them, that’s a nice pickup for the future. The Wizards already have Bilal Coulibaly, Alex Sarr, Kyshawn George and Bub Carrington heavy in their rotation. Johnson may not get time right away, but he should soon.

Their grade is low now, but it could be much higher depending on the pick swap and what the young guard can turn into. Also, it depends on whether or not they can get anything for Middleton at some point.

Grade: C+

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Re: Middleton/Johnson to Wash for Kuzma/Baldwin 

Post#510 » by M-C-G » Wed Feb 5, 2025 6:07 pm

nagawicka wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:I'm most upset at losing Johnson. I feel sick.

Insanely, nakedly bad move. A crime against the Bucks. The ONE thing that goes really right for the Bucks in tooo long, a draft pick pans out, and Horst just throws it away? For *what* exactly. And HIDES the giveaway of our best asset beneath the why-bother Khris/Kyle shiny sideshow distraction that doesn't address what needs fixing. What is going on. Horst is gonna pay for this for yeeeeeaars.


Huh? How has AJJ panned out so far, and this is coming from someone that thinks he could be special. I think the ‘emergence’ of Ajax, Green and Rollins is the only reason we were willing to send AJJ out. If that is true, I guess we need to give credit to someone for finding those three dudes.
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Re: Middleton/Johnson to Wash for Kuzma/Baldwin 

Post#511 » by JayMKE » Wed Feb 5, 2025 6:08 pm

What do the red and white emojis mean? Most wild interpretation wins
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Re: Middleton/Johnson to Wash for Kuzma/Baldwin 

Post#512 » by paulpressey25 » Wed Feb 5, 2025 6:08 pm

TroyD92 wrote:
DanoMac wrote:
TroyD92 wrote:Imagine two years ago trading Middleton for Kuz lmao. This franchise is cooked


Two years ago Middleton was an asset


Horst sure knows how to manage assets doesn’t he


It’s almost like seeing if we could move Midds for Josh Giddey last June would have been better.

The big piece none of us know is how bad his medicals are. And did he sit out games last season and this season where the medical staff cleared him to play?

The league views him as Brandon Roy in his final year. It is what it is.
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Re: Middleton/Johnson to Wash for Kuzma/Baldwin 

Post#513 » by Kerb Hohl » Wed Feb 5, 2025 6:08 pm

Forgive me here as I follow the NBA a lot less these days.

Part of this trade is apron/salary-based? The Bucks probably would have a harder time reloading one final Giannis core if in whichever higher apron next year?

It seems like the aprons are in theory righteous because most fans claim they don't like tanking and it stops teams from continuing to rise higher and higher in lux tax and just hoard an elite core of 3-4 players, therefore making other teams just punt...however, the downside is it forces teams like the Bucks and Wolves to trade away imperfect players like Middleton or Towns for pennies on the dollar if they want to rebuild around their alpha star. Is this all close to correct?
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Re: Middleton/Johnson to Wash for Kuzma/Baldwin 

Post#514 » by Packbuckman » Wed Feb 5, 2025 6:08 pm

Frank Nova wrote:
Packbuckman wrote:
El Pooch Grande wrote:
If Midds plays 25-28 mins in the playoffs he won't last more than 2 games.

That’s **** bull and this trade is worse than we traded Ray Allen


Lol come on bro. I’m puzzled myself but comparing this to the Ray Allen trade is just your frustrations getting the best of you right now. It’s not even in the same stratosphere as bad as that was.

If there is no other move after this and Giannis leaves because of it then it will be the worst trade ever!
Now I will wait to see what happens next because this can’t be it.
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Re: Middleton/Johnson to Wash for Kuzma/Baldwin 

Post#515 » by MiltownMadness » Wed Feb 5, 2025 6:08 pm

machu46 wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:
soxperry wrote:
Those could be blazers, bulls or wizards colors, no?


Maybe the Heat for Jimmy? Why would Giannis do this now?! lmao


Wouldn't you do like a fire emoji if it was something related to the Heat though? I really have no idea what a red and white circle could possibly mean. Entirely possible Giannis is just messing with people.

Either that or it isn't related to basketball and he forgot not to tweet cryptic things at this moment. Giannis isn't going to leak trade rumors :lol:
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Re: Middleton/Johnson to Wash for Kuzma/Baldwin 

Post#516 » by MartyConlonOnTheRun » Wed Feb 5, 2025 6:08 pm

humanrefutation wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:Giannis just posted and deleted this. What does it mean!

Image


Wizards colors, no?

Why leave out blue?
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Re: Middleton/Johnson to Wash for Kuzma/Baldwin 

Post#517 » by paulpressey25 » Wed Feb 5, 2025 6:09 pm

JayMKE wrote:What do the red and white emojis mean? Most wild interpretation wins


Deal with Portland is the best take I’ve seen so far.
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Re: Middleton/Johnson to Wash for Kuzma/Baldwin 

Post#518 » by jimmybones » Wed Feb 5, 2025 6:09 pm

tedbrogen wrote:
LUKE23 wrote:Can someone explain how we are better? Lets say Middleton could only play 25-28 mpg in the playoffs. He's still an efficient scorer, floor spacer, and a very good passer. Are people expecting that Kuzma is all off a sudden going to shoot a career high from 3 here? I just don't get it. Stop looking at PPG.


Bucks staff doesn’t think Midds can even give them 25mpg in the playoffs. And they didn’t want to pay him $34M next season for what he has given them this season.


I don't like Kuzma and I loved Middleton, but...

Kuzma on the court > Middleton in jeans

is pretty easy math but again, that requires facing that reality of the situation and I get that's hard and not fun
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Re: Middleton/Johnson to Wash for Kuzma/Baldwin 

Post#519 » by -Jragon- » Wed Feb 5, 2025 6:09 pm

Play style matters.. kuzma is a fast break guy and we'll look instantly younger/faster.

Regarding Johnson.. maybe our coaches haven't seen what they wanted to see
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Re: Middleton/Johnson to Wash for Kuzma/Baldwin 

Post#520 » by Turk Nowitzki » Wed Feb 5, 2025 6:09 pm

nagawicka wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:I'm most upset at losing Johnson. I feel sick.

Insanely, nakedly bad move. A crime against the Bucks. The ONE thing that goes really right for the Bucks in tooo long, a draft pick pans out, and Horst just throws it away? For *what* exactly. And HIDES the giveaway of our best asset beneath the why-bother Khris/Kyle shiny sideshow distraction that doesn't address what needs fixing. What is going on. Horst is gonna pay for this for yeeeeeaars.

It's so bad that it's actually revealing as to how much the Wizards had us over a barrel here and how few real options we must have had. That's not necessarily a compelling reason to make a trade, but you know Horst wasn't going out there seeking to trade AJ Johnson in this deal.

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