Woelfel - 70% bogut's gone and maybe Jennings (update pg131)

[ReasonablySober]

No, I'd look for a better deal. As I've said, I think he's worth more. If the Orlando deal is the only thing on the table I'd hold onto him with the goal of bringing him back. If we can't then all we're out is dumping Jackson and Udrih, and a late first. Udrih and Jackson are expiring, meaning we could use them to pick up a late first next year. I don't see a lot of value in jumping on Orlando's deal.

Gotcha. So you'd rather win more games, have less picks and have a worse cap situation if you can't get better than the Orlando deal.

I won't take any more of your posts about wanting to tank and rebuild seriously. Thanks for the tip.

The easy way to get your head around this is I think Ersan is a guy you build with rather than dump. You yourself have said he's been the Bucks best player this season. I realize that doesn't say much, but he's 24, skilled, getting better by the game. He's a guy you pay, not dump. Getting cap space a year early and a late first isn't enough of a reason to get rid of him. Remember, that cap space will still be here, it'll just be around in 2013 as opposed to 12. Whatever, I'll wait.

[stevescheffler06]

If that whole Hollinger scenario played out... I would be all...

Totally underrated. This is f-ing gold.

[trwi7]

Why not trade Ersan and then try to sign him in the offseason if you think that? Ersan already said money talks. I'd rather get an asset than risk losing him for nothing.

[Nebula1]

What is Hollinger's deal again?

We send out Ersan, Udrih and Gooden and get back Randolph, Beasley and a 1st?

What am I missing here? Sign me up.

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradecheck ... de/6058519

Plus ORL 1st to Milwaukee
Rights to Fran Vazquez to MIN


The second part was including Drew Gooden for Earl Clark

[ReasonablySober]

Why not trade Ersan and then try to sign him in the offseason if you think that? Ersan already said money talks. I'd rather get an asset than risk losing him for nothing.

I'll quote one of our posters from earlier in the thread.

Who's going to give him more? Almost all the guys with salaries between the midlevel and the max are given those salaries by the team that has them going into FA or before FA via extension. Bird rights are powerful.

[Asher]

roland lazenby reporting pau gasol traded...

It seems we'll soon be getting news that Gasol has been traded. No details confirmed, but he's apparently gone.

https://twitter.com/#!/lazenby/status/1 ... 0996965376

[Newz]

The easy way to get your head around this is I think Ersan is a guy you build with rather than dump. You yourself have said he's been the Bucks best player this season. I realize that doesn't say much, but he's 24, skilled, getting better by the game. He's a guy you pay, not dump. Getting cap space a year early and a late first isn't enough of a reason to get rid of him. Remember, that cap space will still be here, it'll just be around in 2013 as opposed to 12. Whatever, I'll wait.

What is stopping him from giving him the most money as a UFA if we do trade him and rid ourselves of bad contracts/add picks/hurt the tank this year?

I am reading what you are saying and it is this:

You want: Gooden, Beno, Ersan, worse first round pick.

I want: A better first round pick, a pick in the late twenties, no Gooden/Beno, plenty of cap room to be the highest bidder and bring Ersan back.

How is your scenario in any way better than mine? Honestly, I just cannot understand what you are thinking. If there is a better trade than that on the table? Sure. But I don't think it gets much better than that for a guy like Ersan.

[ReasonablySober]

Bird rights...?

[Rafael122]

My favorite part of the whole thread was the wiz fan that said they'd be taking Bogut off our hands like we're looking to dump him. Couldn't tell if some of them were serious.

More serious than asking for their first round pick unprotected. The perceived value that you have of Bogut is excessively high. I get it, he's a good player when healthy, but that's my point, he hasn't been health in 3.5 seasons. This is his value right now, he's played 12 games and he might even play the rest of the year yet you're asking for a first round pick? For a guy who is most likely damaged goods?

[paulpressey25]

Bird rights...?

We'd have cap money if we play our cards and dump Gooden.

[ReasonablySober]

Newz, I get what you're saying. I don't agree that it needs to be done, though, simply because next year Udrih and Jackson will be expirings, and it's possible Udrih opts out anyway. A late 1st isn't enough of a reason to give up Ersan's rights in my opinion. Obviously you disagree. It's ok.

[ReasonablySober]

Bird rights...?

We'd have cap money if we play our cards and dump Gooden.

Another team could offer him more.

[Newz]

Bird rights...?

You are that concerned about retaining a role player that you would pass up clearing off bad contracts and adding another first rounder?

In addition, doesn't a guy have to be with a team for a certain amount of time before bird rights actually kicks in? Are you wanting us to have Bird Rights on him or worried about another team getting those rights?

I guess I'm just trying to wrap my head around how you've done a total 180 on how to build a team. You were all about tanking and rooting for the team to lose. Now you seem hell bent on passing up good deals so that we can retain role players.

[trwi7]

I just disagree with DB on this. Ersan is pointless until we get a Durant or Griffin or Rose. He's the guy you get after you have one of those types of players. Getting him before then just leads to wins that take you out of the running for the type of player you need.

[Newz]

Another team could offer him more.

Good lord. How much do you think Ersan is worth?

[Newz]

I just disagree with DB on this. Ersan is pointless until we get a Durant or Griffin or Rose. He's the guy you get after you have one of those types of players. Getting him before then just leads to wins that take you out of the running for the type of player you need.

I don't even consider Ersan a top 3 guy on a championship level team... unless maybe LeBron is on that team. MAYBE.

[jimmybones]

My favorite part of the whole thread was the wiz fan that said they'd be taking Bogut off our hands like we're looking to dump him. Couldn't tell if some of them were serious.

More serious than asking for their first round pick unprotected. The perceived value that you have of Bogut is excessively high. I get it, he's a good player when healthy, but that's my point, he hasn't been health in 3.5 seasons. This is his value right now, he's played 12 games and he might even play the rest of the year yet you're asking for a first round pick? For a guy who is most likely damaged goods?

It's pretty obvious that the real value is somewhere between both sides more extreme expectations. Regardless, we don't need to dump Bogut. You wouldnt be helping us by "taking him off our hands." We don't have a match, fine.

[trwi7]

I just disagree with DB on this. Ersan is pointless until we get a Durant or Griffin or Rose. He's the guy you get after you have one of those types of players. Getting him before then just leads to wins that take you out of the running for the type of player you need.

I don't even consider Ersan a top 3 guy on a championship level team... unless maybe LeBron is on that team. MAYBE.

Agree. I think he's the first big off the bench type of guy or with a team like Orlando he would be a really good fit as a starter. That's not a guy you give the MLE to in our situation and I like Ersan as a player a lot.

[Lippo]

So if we did both trades

Outgoing: Ersan, Udrih, Gooden, Bogut, Brockman

Incoming: Beasley, Randolph, Orton, Harper, Clarke and ORL 1st, McGee, Vesley, Crawford, 2012 2nd

Trade Delfino for a 2nd
Then amnesty Jackson

2013

Draft
1(bucks): Jeremy Lamb
1(magic) Tony Wroten
2(wizards) Quincy Miller
2(bucks) Henry Sims
2(delfino) Augusto Lima

Jennings/Livingston/Wroten
Lamb/Crawford/Wroten
Beasley/Harris/Vesley/Miller
Randolph/Moute/Clark/Harper/Lima
McGee/Orton/Sanders/Sims

crazy new look

[paulpressey25]

The "chance" or "opportunity" to maybe use Bird rights to outbid other teams to overpay Ersan wouldn't stop me from Dumping Gooden AND Udrih and picking up a late first.

As Tom Cruise would say, you had me at "dropping Gooden"