Caron Butler traded to Bucks for Ish Smith and Kratsov

[GrandAdmiralDan]

The silliest thing the Bucks have done this off-season is to put all of their eggs in the Larry Sanders basket.

I don't mind rolling the dice on Sanders to see if he turns into the real deal, but the Bucks team is really devoid of talent. Ellis and Jennings were not a good fit together, but at least they were NBA talent. Hammond needed to find a way to convert those assets into something of value. I don't think that he did.

Sanders is a horribly flawed player, despite his great defensive skills. He would be awesome in the Ervin Johnson role, paired with an offensive minded big 3 who can blaze away from the perimeter. But on most teams your top players need to have some balance. Sanders does not. I fear that he is the anti Monta Ellis - great on one side of the ball, horrid on the other side.

I don't think that one team in the East is worried about having to face the Larry Sanders-led Milwaukee Bucks.

Ellis was great on one side of the ball? It certainly wasn't offense or defense. I'm pretty sure those are the only two options though

Ellis was not much of a positive to his team on offense after his moped injury. Prior to that, he did have one season where he was great offensively. But that was quite a while ago.

[Badgerlander]

This years team has a lot more Juice than last years

[Badgerlander]

Also I'd rather have 33 year old Caron @ 1yr 8mil than 32 year old Korver @ 3yrs 21mil that we offered earlier this offseason.

[old skool]

Ellis was great on one side of the ball? It certainly wasn't offense or defense. I'm pretty sure those are the only two options though

Yeah, you are right. Even on offense he was more of an ESPN highlight show than a basketball player. Spectacular a percentage of the time, either darting to the basket or snagging a pass in the passing lanes. My point is that just as Ellis could be spectacular in a limited way, Sanders can be spectacular in a limited way. Hopefully his defense continues to develop and he becomes more than a rim protector - though if you only have one skill, that is a good skill to have.

I think the fans here will turn on Sanders if he continues to play at the 2012-13 level while earning a $10-million a year plus salary. His game has too many holes at this point.

[Baddy Chuck]

I think the fans here will turn on Sanders if he continues to play at the 2012-13 level while earning a $10-million a year plus salary. His game has too many holes at this point.

If Sanders played like he did last season there is no reason any fan that doesn't look at box scores to form an opinion to have anything bad to say about the contract.

[SkilesTheLimit]

Also I'd rather have 33 year old Caron @ 1yr 8mil than 32 year old Korver @ 3yrs 21mil that we offered earlier this offseason.

I'd rather have herpes over AIDS. Having said that, I wouldn't want either. See your statement above.

[Badgerlander]

Also I'd rather have 33 year old Caron @ 1yr 8mil than 32 year old Korver @ 3yrs 21mil that we offered earlier this offseason.

I'd rather have herpes over AIDS. Having said that, I wouldn't want either. See your statement above.

Uhm, good luck with that. Don't get me wrong I've always wanted us to go young with the roster and especially this year with all of the talent in the draft, but Herb's marching orders have never changed. The is no stealth tank, we just have a bunch of incompetent idiots in our FO. Thank goodness Jennings and Ellis didn't take the extensions that we offered them. I can't imagine how much I'd be dreading the next 3 years if we had Jennings+Ellis at 10mil per each and Korver at 7mil per. So basically thru dumb luck we ended up with a roster that I am intrigued to watch this season.

[HurricaneKid]

they can just trade Butler at the deadline if push comes to shove since he is expiring.

It kills me to keep hearing this. Its just not the case. Not one single expiring contract has been traded for since the new CBA started. In fact, just last year Memphis traded a 25 year old PF with a career PER of 16.5 (Caron's best in the last 4 years is 14.2) making exactly half as much as Caron. What did they get for him? Well actually they had to throw in a draft pick for the Cavs to take Speights and his 50% off salary. If they were going to trade Butler tomorrow they would probably need to attach a lotto protected 1st to get anyone to take him.

[blazza18]

And we're the Bucks. We don't dump players at the deadline for the hell of it.

[Ayt]

Ellis was great on one side of the ball? It certainly wasn't offense or defense. I'm pretty sure those are the only two options though

Yeah, you are right. Even on offense he was more of an ESPN highlight show than a basketball player. Spectacular a percentage of the time, either darting to the basket or snagging a pass in the passing lanes. My point is that just as Ellis could be spectacular in a limited way, Sanders can be spectacular in a limited way. Hopefully his defense continues to develop and he becomes more than a rim protector - though if you only have one skill, that is a good skill to have.

I think the fans here will turn on Sanders if he continues to play at the 2012-13 level while earning a $10-million a year plus salary. His game has too many holes at this point.

He's already much more than that defensively.

[HurricaneKid]

I think the fans here will turn on Sanders if he continues to play at the 2012-13 level while earning a $10-million a year plus salary. His game has too many holes at this point.

I could not possibly disagree with this more. Yes, Sanders is severely limited offensively and shot an embarrassing .311 from the field if you take out his shots at the rim. But he is one of the best defenders in the league and his RAPM was top 30 in the league last year. If he can become an average offensive player and not even improve defensively his RAPM would be top 5 in the league. There isn't a single guy making less than 8.3MM ahead of him and PLENTY of guys making piles of money well behind him. It was a STEAL to get him for 11M/.

[ReasonablySober]

The fans here won't turn on him if he stays what he is.

The idiot public will turn quickly, however, unless the narrative changes.

[Badgerlander]

looks like he still has some ups

[CanadaBucks]

they can just trade Butler at the deadline if push comes to shove since he is expiring.

It kills me to keep hearing this. Its just not the case. Not one single expiring contract has been traded for since the new CBA started. In fact, just last year Memphis traded a 25 year old PF with a career PER of 16.5 (Caron's best in the last 4 years is 14.2) making exactly half as much as Caron. What did they get for him? Well actually they had to throw in a draft pick for the Cavs to take Speights and his 50% off salary. If they were going to trade Butler tomorrow they would probably need to attach a lotto protected 1st to get anyone to take him.

A lot of ppl think expirings are valuable, they're not, and haven't been since going into the 2010 offseason

[blazza18]

they can just trade Butler at the deadline if push comes to shove since he is expiring.

It kills me to keep hearing this. Its just not the case. Not one single expiring contract has been traded for since the new CBA started. In fact, just last year Memphis traded a 25 year old PF with a career PER of 16.5 (Caron's best in the last 4 years is 14.2) making exactly half as much as Caron. What did they get for him? Well actually they had to throw in a draft pick for the Cavs to take Speights and his 50% off salary. If they were going to trade Butler tomorrow they would probably need to attach a lotto protected 1st to get anyone to take him.

A lot of ppl think expirings are valuable, they're not, and haven't been since going into the 2010 offseason

And then you add in the Bucks factor too. We aren't a team that offloads expirings at all.

[Chapter29]

The silliest thing the Bucks have done this off-season is to put all of their eggs in the Larry Sanders basket.

I don't mind rolling the dice on Sanders to see if he turns into the real deal, but the Bucks team is really devoid of talent. Ellis and Jennings were not a good fit together, but at least they were NBA talent. Hammond needed to find a way to convert those assets into something of value. I don't think that he did.

Sanders is a horribly flawed player, despite his great defensive skills. He would be awesome in the Ervin Johnson role, paired with an offensive minded big 3 who can blaze away from the perimeter. But on most teams your top players need to have some balance. Sanders does not. I fear that he is the anti Monta Ellis - great on one side of the ball, horrid on the other side.

I don't think that one team in the East is worried about having to face the Larry Sanders-led Milwaukee Bucks.

Larry Sanders is not a star and not a franchise player, heck not even sure if he's an all-star caliber player.

We didn't really put all our eggs in one basket. Sort of just happened. We gave away our guy when we gave away Bogut. As sad as that may be. Ellis can go. Ellis may be NBA talent, but sorry so is Mayo. We can argue one over the other, but neither are a star or a franchise players.

If you ask me the Bucks are doing what they can with what little they have. Sanders is the type of complimentary player championship aspiring teams need and resigning him was a smart move. Baring a regress which I doubt.

I believe that our only real hope at a star player is Giannis. I believe that is where the Bucks have put all their eggs in one basket. We must have an all-star or better caliber player to compete. Since we have built a team that wont stink and get a high pick, we have put all our eggs in the Giannis basket.

[Chapter29]

Also I'd rather have 33 year old Caron @ 1yr 8mil than 32 year old Korver @ 3yrs 21mil that we offered earlier this offseason.

Ya, we ended up with Delfino instead. Even worse. The Butler trade wasn't a bad trade at all. I'd rather have him over both of these guys.

[WiscoKing13]

It kills me to keep hearing this. Its just not the case. Not one single expiring contract has been traded for since the new CBA started. In fact, just last year Memphis traded a 25 year old PF with a career PER of 16.5 (Caron's best in the last 4 years is 14.2) making exactly half as much as Caron. What did they get for him? Well actually they had to throw in a draft pick for the Cavs to take Speights and his 50% off salary. If they were going to trade Butler tomorrow they would probably need to attach a lotto protected 1st to get anyone to take him.

A lot of ppl think expirings are valuable, they're not, and haven't been since going into the 2010 offseason

And then you add in the Bucks factor too. We aren't a team that offloads expirings at all.

Now i'd have to look at the 2010 claim, but the bucks traded Alexander/Warrick(expirings) for salmons and the right to swap picks. Salmons had a PO that chicago didn't want him to pick up.

[drew881]

We gave away our guy when we gave away Bogut. As sad as that may be. Ellis can go. Ellis may be NBA talent, but sorry so is Mayo. We can argue one over the other, but neither are a star or a franchise players.

I'm sorry, but the Bogut we gave away was a shell of his former self. He was talking about potentially retiring last year. He hobbled around the court, and while he was still able to make some plays here and there, or for some 5-7 minutes stretches, I question what he can do over the next three years. I'd love to see it happen, but between the ankle, back, and elbow, it is a tall order. I hated getting Monta Ellis, but I'm glad we made a move. I only wish we then unloaded Monta for some expiring value, like a 1st round pick of any sort.

As for Larry, I like his impact on the defensive end of course, and last year he put up amazing stats, but we also were a defensive sieve that allowed the most shots in the paint. It will be interesting to see if Larry's block numbers decline, if only because Knight and Mayo will not allow their men to get inside as much. That isn't a knock on Larry at all, but if we look just at his BPG next year, it might not be a good way to evaluate his progression.

[EastSideBucksFan]

Also I'd rather have 33 year old Caron @ 1yr 8mil than 32 year old Korver @ 3yrs 21mil that we offered earlier this offseason.

Ya, we ended up with Delfino instead. Even worse. The Butler trade wasn't a bad trade at all. I'd rather have him over both of these guys.

Delfino at 2yrs/$6M is much better than Korver at 3yrs/$21M